Camerons dad and his off shore tax haven

[AVB]

By your own statment the banks and buildings society's greed played a part, as for the latest gadgets flat screen TVs etc most of these items are manufactured by a slave race in China and big companys skim the profit off the top, a TV for instance would once have been produced by a skilled UK worker on a decent wage who would then in turn circulate that money amongst the working class, this is part of the reason I want out of the EU and the super rich want to stay in.

Think about it money is meant to be a representation of an exchange of labour, now take a billionaire/multimillionaire if they worked 24hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year for their entire life they would still not produce a billion pounds worth of labour.

Like you I'm in a privileged position, the line of work I chose means my friends are all working class and I can see it from both sides, this country needs change and it is the rich and powerful who are forcing most working class people into a life of virtual slavery.

I don't see it the same way as you but we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am not sure money is just a representation of an exchange of labour. What about taking risk, which most business owners do. Out of interest who do you see as the super rich who are fleecing the working man?

[rodp]

I don't see it the same way as you but we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am not sure money is just a representation of an exchange of labour. What about taking risk, which most business owners do. Out of interest who do you see as the super rich who are fleecing the working man?

Not many of the wealthy take a risk, they make sure of that. if they go belly up they take the little man while they retire to a mansion.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

By your own statment the banks and buildings society's greed played a part, as for the latest gadgets flat screen TVs etc most of these items are manufactured by a slave race in China and big companys skim the profit off the top, a TV for instance would once have been produced by a skilled UK worker on a decent wage who would then in turn circulate that money amongst the working class, this is part of the reason I want out of the EU and the super rich want to stay in.

Think about it money is meant to be a representation of an exchange of labour, now take a billionaire/multimillionaire if they worked 24hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year for their entire life they would still not produce a billion pounds worth of labour.

Like you I'm in a privileged position, the line of work I chose means my friends are all working class and I can see it from both sides, this country needs change and it is the rich and powerful who are forcing most working class people into a life of virtual slavery.

 

That's a cracking response.

 

Tony Blair (that true socialist) would be proud of you. I well remember the likes of Red Robbo destroying a large part of the British car industry whilst claiming that his purpose was to benefit his members lives and wages. Skilled workers will only exist if their productivity outclasses the benefit of slave workers in the rest of the world. Somehow (and I am not clever enough to know) the German car workers manage this.

 

When in office Tony Blair took every opportunity to slag off the rich whilst cosying up to George Bush. It's the politicians of this world who rule the world. Ever met a true, poor socialist? Those that can afford to be, claim to be one. Tony Benn etc., etc.

[12gauge82]

I can assure you I am not a socialist, I believe although not perfect ukip is the closest this country has to a working man's party, agreed the politicians are mainly to blame but they have alot of fingers in big business I.e Tony Blair one of the biggest crooks going sold the UK up the river. As for what do I define as big business, I'm talking the likes of Amazon etc too complex a subject for me to go any further in and purpously created that way to prevent your average tradesman or shopworker from working it all out. I feel I've said my bit so will not be commenting much more on this subject.

[JRDS]

50k a year well Whoopi for you, suppose you have a pension, an isa and own your own home. Perhaps you may even pass on an inheritance to your kids. To me you're no better than the rest of the wealthy.

No ISA a 100k mortgage and run a 14 year old car and an overdraft, fill your boots. 50k = **** loads of tax, I can assure you I am not wealthy in any shape or form.

[12gauge82]

No ISA a 100k mortgage and run a 14 year old car and an overdraft, fill your boots. 50k = **** loads of tax, I can assure you I am not wealthy in any shape or form.

My last post on this... I couldn't agree more, I know lots of people in your position (and worse). You pay super tax while billionaire business men pay peanuts and like you said if it all goes wrong they swan off with a personal fortune leaving everyone else to pick up, just look at the banking crisis and how many prosecutions that took place, if that was you not paying your extortionate tax on 50k you'd be locked up.

[JRDS]

My 50 k was earnt last tax year, 7 k of which was for working weekends. I have now given up the weekend shift due to the amount of tax I paid,.

[Yellow Bear]

No ISA a 100k mortgage and run a 14 year old car and an overdraft, fill your boots. 50k = **** loads of tax, I can assure you I am not wealthy in any shape or form.

Ah but according to those "poor" union activists you hear in the media - Yes you are, anyone on more than 30k is rich and should be on the top tax rate.

[SNS]

My 50 k was earnt last tax year, 7 k of which was for working weekends. I have now given up the weekend shift due to the amount of tax I paid,.

Careful- that reads as though you have done something deliberate for no other reason than to avoid tax. Some on here won't like that.....

[JRDS]

Those in the middle are quite the worse off, no benefits and full whack tax. I grew up on a grim Council estate and was the worst at school behaviour wise but wised up and did my ONC / HNC and got a decent job on the back of it. Can't think of a good thing to say about our current Govt or prospects for our kids.

[scolopax]

Those in the middle are quite the worse off, no benefits and full whack tax. I grew up on a grim Council estate and was the worst at school behaviour wise but wised up and did my ONC / HNC and got a decent job on the back of it. Can't think of a good thing to say about our current Govt or prospects for our kids.

 

 

 

Well they want to repeal the hunting act...that is good enough for me

[felly100]

Well they want to repeal the hunting act...that is good enough for me

Who does?

[scolopax]

The current government, pushed mainly by Cameron albeit, but this Conservative government, with David Cameron as PM, is about the only chance of getting the hunting act repealed / watered down.

[keg]

Oh boy is the vitriol starting to come out. Calm down chaps. We all make choices in life, some concious, some unconcious..

[rjimmer]

I think attitudes vary according to your view on whether capital should be passed down the generations. Some people think we should all start from the bottom on a level playing field. A farmer makes decisions every day that has the next generation in mind. Do people want to work for a business that has to be closed down or sold when the owner dies, if so, who is going to buy it? The main unfairness nowadays with regards this, is that perpetual trusts can no longer be created. People in capital-rich families have to save all their lives to pay the IHT so that capital can be passed on when they die. Hence the saying 'rags-to-riches and riches-to-rags in 3 generations, not entirely due to taxes though.

[achosenman]

Oh boy is the vitriol starting to come out. Calm down chaps. We all make choices in life, some concious, some unconcious..

 

Never a truer word.

 

Those that were with the "in" crowd at school, bunking off, smoking behind the bike sheds, disrupting any class they attended. These are the ones I have less sympathy with when they whine about not earning a good wage. Funnily enough they also seem to be the most vocal in the vitriolic condemnation of those that did better. The other common theme they share is blaming everyone else for their situation.

 

Atb

[buze]

Nothing is actually stopping you from becoming better off in this country. Stop moaning and do something about it.

 

I arrived here 16 years ago, with /nothing/ at all. I don't have any diploma, and I wasn't talking the language. Now I earn considerably more than the previous poster, own two house, and pay also a considerable amount of taxes, and I'm actually quite happy about it. It *still* leaves me enough to be comfortable, and I don't feel any urge to try to cheat the system. Yes, if my accountant tells me 'you need to spend more on this, because otherwise you will pay it as taxes anyway' I will certainly do that, but other than that, I think the taxing system here in the UK is excellent (In comparison to france!).

 

So again, moaners will moan; in the meantime, I work often 16h a day, but I feel like in *this* country nothing is stopping you from getting out of your 'station' and do something that will make you better off.

PS: I don't own a large screen TV, and I don't change car every year, and I haven't had an 'oversea holiday' in 14 years.

Edited April 14, 2016 by buze

[grrclark]

No ISA a 100k mortgage and run a 14 year old car and an overdraft, fill your boots. 50k = **** loads of tax, I can assure you I am not wealthy in any shape or form.

 

 

Those in the middle are quite the worse off, no benefits and full whack tax. I grew up on a grim Council estate and was the worst at school behaviour wise but wised up and did my ONC / HNC and got a decent job on the back of it. Can't think of a good thing to say about our current Govt or prospects for our kids.

Consider your argument from the perspective of the person who earns £20k, they look at you on an income that is 2.5x their income and think that by comparison you are loaded. They think that it is only fair that you should pay a lot more tax than they do as you are a lot better off than they are.

 

Of course the reality may be entirely different from your perspective, you are pretty much maxed out with little disposable income so you feel a sense of injustice that you have to pay more tax and you look to the people above you who earn, comparatively, a lot more than you. You think that they should take the burden of the countries needs on their shoulders.

 

Looked at from their perspective they feel a sense of injustice that they have to pay so much more than both you and the person on £20k when they get no greater benefit from their contribution than everyone else. Just like you they may be maxed out on what they spend as well, they may have a bigger mortgage or a more expensive car, they may take more expensive holidays or have a gun with nicer wood on the stock, but still maxed out. Of course they pay a greater percentage of tax on all these expensive things too.

 

It is too easy to look at people who earn more and think they don't need to have that flashy car/house/gun/holiday home and they should pay more tax so I can have more money in my pocket to buy nicer things myself, but that isn't fair either.

 

The truth is that in the vast majority our progressive tax system works, those who earn more pay more.

 

Very roughly the person who earns £20k will pay £2k in tax. The person who earns £50k will pay £10k in tax. The person who earns £150k will pay £52k in tax. The person who earns £200k will pay £74k. So from one extreme to the other the guy who earns 10x the income of the lowest paid pays 37x the amount of tax, but receives the very same services.

 

Numbers are very approximate, but good enough by way of comparison to illustrate.

[poontang]

 

 

Very roughly the person who earns £20k will pay £2k in tax. The person who earns £50k will pay £10k in tax. The person who earns £150k will pay £52k in tax. The person who earns £200k will pay £74k. So from one extreme to the other the guy who earns 10x the income of the lowest paid pays 37x the amount of tax, but receives the very same services.

 

Numbers are very approximate, but good enough by way of comparison to illustrate.

 

Yes, and let's not forget it's quite probable that those who earn £150k - £200k are actually employing a fair few of the £20k earners.

 

Damn those awful 'bosses' who should be taxed into oblivion!!

[Scully]

Excellent post grrclark....again. Perspective can be a real eye opener.

[rjimmer]

Those that were with the "in" crowd at school, bunking off, smoking behind the bike sheds, disrupting any class they attended. These are the ones I have less sympathy with when they whine about not earning a good wage.

We had a reunion of people in our school year from 50 years before and most of the people who had done the best in life were people from the group you refer to above.

[JRDS]

 

 

Consider your argument from the perspective of the person who earns £20k, they look at you on an income that is 2.5x their income and think that by comparison you are loaded. They think that it is only fair that you should pay a lot more tax than they do as you are a lot better off than they are.

 

Of course the reality may be entirely different from your perspective, you are pretty much maxed out with little disposable income so you feel a sense of injustice that you have to pay more tax and you look to the people above you who earn, comparatively, a lot more than you. You think that they should take the burden of the countries needs on their shoulders.

 

Looked at from their perspective they feel a sense of injustice that they have to pay so much more than both you and the person on £20k when they get no greater benefit from their contribution than everyone else. Just like you they may be maxed out on what they spend as well, they may have a bigger mortgage or a more expensive car, they may take more expensive holidays or have a gun with nicer wood on the stock, but still maxed out. Of course they pay a greater percentage of tax on all these expensive things too.

 

It is too easy to look at people who earn more and think they don't need to have that flashy car/house/gun/holiday home and they should pay more tax so I can have more money in my pocket to buy nicer things myself, but that isn't fair either.

 

The truth is that in the vast majority our progressive tax system works, those who earn more pay more.

 

Very roughly the person who earns £20k will pay £2k in tax. The person who earns £50k will pay £10k in tax. The person who earns £150k will pay £52k in tax. The person who earns £200k will pay £74k. So from one extreme to the other the guy who earns 10x the income of the lowest paid pays 37x the amount of tax, but receives the very same services.

 

Numbers are very approximate, but good enough by way of comparison to illustrate.

Valid points. My issue is the majority who PAYE have no choice but to pay their full whack whilst Politicians (Law makers) deliberately leave loop holes to be abused by themselves and their rich buddies then declare it's all perfectly legal if rumbled. A total and utter **** take and an insult to those who pay their fair share. Add in what they give in Foreign aid and EU contributions with our tax and it really does start to grate.

Edited April 14, 2016 by JRDS

[Whitebridges]

 

 

Consider your argument from the perspective of the person who earns £20k, they look at you on an income that is 2.5x their income and think that by comparison you are loaded. They think that it is only fair that you should pay a lot more tax than they do as you are a lot better off than they are.

 

Of course the reality may be entirely different from your perspective, you are pretty much maxed out with little disposable income so you feel a sense of injustice that you have to pay more tax and you look to the people above you who earn, comparatively, a lot more than you. You think that they should take the burden of the countries needs on their shoulders.

 

Looked at from their perspective they feel a sense of injustice that they have to pay so much more than both you and the person on £20k when they get no greater benefit from their contribution than everyone else. Just like you they may be maxed out on what they spend as well, they may have a bigger mortgage or a more expensive car, they may take more expensive holidays or have a gun with nicer wood on the stock, but still maxed out. Of course they pay a greater percentage of tax on all these expensive things too.

 

It is too easy to look at people who earn more and think they don't need to have that flashy car/house/gun/holiday home and they should pay more tax so I can have more money in my pocket to buy nicer things myself, but that isn't fair either.

 

The truth is that in the vast majority our progressive tax system works, those who earn more pay more.

 

Very roughly the person who earns £20k will pay £2k in tax. The person who earns £50k will pay £10k in tax. The person who earns £150k will pay £52k in tax. The person who earns £200k will pay £74k. So from one extreme to the other the guy who earns 10x the income of the lowest paid pays 37x the amount of tax, but receives the very same services.

 

Numbers are very approximate, but good enough by way of comparison to illustrate.

 

Very good indeed.

 

I'd really welcome your opinion on CGT for small limited companies.

[AVB]

Valid points. My issue is the majority who PAYE have no choice but to pay their full whack whilst Politicians (Law makers) deliberately leave loop holes to be abused by themselves and their rich buddies then declare it's all perfectly legal if rumbled. A total and utter **** take and an insult to those who pay their fair share. Add in what they give in Foreign aid and EU contributions with our tax and it really does start to grate.

Me again. All of the MP's who have shown their tax return reveal that they are paying the right amount of tax and are Only taking advantage of the same tax 'loopholes' that you and I could take advantage of. CGT exemption, IHT 'gifts' etc. What loopholes are you referring to?

[JRDS]

http://www.accounting-degree.org/accounting-tricks/

 

A few here for you, you believe all the MP's tax returns Cameron's and Osborne's weren't actual tax returns just pieces of paper with numbers nor do tax returns show any dubious money hidden from the tax man, that whole exercise was a ******** PR stunt. Why weren't the actual tax returns shown?? Cameron is still to explain the 75k of shares he sold just before becoming PM. The very fact he won't speaks volumes.

Edited April 14, 2016 by JRDS