Camerons dad and his off shore tax haven

[AVB]

Nope! the people and businesses who employ accountants do so for business purposes, not for moral ones!

Oh come on. So they say to their accountant "I know you can legitimately reduce my tax bill but I feel morally obliged to pay more". I didn't realise that.

[AVB]

Why not? you are the one quoting the view "one has no moral obligation to pay taxes"

I do pay my taxes. Lots of them. I also reduce my tax liability by 1) contributing to a pension 2) contributing to an ISA 3) investing in companies that are eligible to EIS relief.

 

I don't see what morals have to do with it. I used to but then realised it was hypocritical to do so whilst I was also benefiting from legal tax avoidance schemes such as above.

[panoma1]

Oh come on. So they say to their accountant "I know you can legitimately reduce my tax bill but I feel morally obliged to pay more". I didn't realise that.

Again no! You are misinterpreting what I wrote!

[panoma1]

I do pay my taxes. Lots of them. I also reduce my tax liability by 1) contributing to a pension 2) contributing to an ISA 3) investing in companies that are eligible to EIS relief.

I don't see what morals have to do with it. I used to but then realised it was hypocritical to do so whilst I was also benefiting from legal tax avoidance schemes such as above.

But I am not commenting on people who pay their taxes, because by doing so they contribute to the NHS and public services mentioned above, I am commenting on people who use these services and can more than afford to do so.........but choose not to pay towards it by avoiding tax.

[Scully]

I'm not sure how much the politicians etc can be criticised for tax avoidance; there are many people doing exactly the same but on a much smaller scale no matter what their social standing and financial situation, from the likes of millionaires such as many politicians and celebrities such as Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow to the average man on the street.

The only difference is, is that the wealthy can afford to hire accountants who can administer the methods so they can legally avoid paying tax, whereas the average man on the street can't, so simply doesn't declare it.

It is a very grey line between undeclared tax and tax avoidance. One is legal, the other not. The average man on the street knows what he is doing is wrong, but while the rich get richer by such schemes, you'd have a job convincing the other to stop doing it.

What needs to be answered is who created the legal loopholes and for what reason.

[zipdog]

"Over and over again the courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep tax as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant.

 

Commissioner v Newman (1947)

[Vince Green]

What I find annoying is all the Eastern Europeans who work here but quite legally "opt" to pay tax in their own country because they are non dom (or claim they are) but I don't think anyone actually checks.

 

I'm sure they really do pay tax on it back in their country, yeah right

 

I've been listening to this on the radio and I think everyone is missing the main point. I'm sure a lot of this money is dirty money and wasn't just stashed there to avoid tax. This is where bungs bribes and backhanders end up rather than the profits from honest business.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Vince Green

[rjimmer]

Come on, what is all this shout about rich peoples tax haven. How many shout about the black economy with cash deals. There are far more people taking cash for services, but that is alright is it?

HMRC don't chase the big boys because it costs too much, and the little people who fiddle all the time but spend everything, have not got anything for them to take. Everyone in between gets pestered.

[AVB]

What I find annoying is all the Eastern Europeans who work here but quite legally "opt" to pay tax in their own country because they are non dom (or claim they are) but I don't think anyone actually checks.

 

I'm sure they really do pay tax on it back in their country, yeah right

 

I've been listening to this on the radio and I think everyone is missing the main point. I'm sure a lot of this money is dirty money and wasn't just stashed there to avoid tax. This is where bungs bribes and backhanders end up rather than the profits from honest business.

I don't believe the Eastern European non-res issue. Do you have any evidence?

 

But on your later point yes I agree that is the real issue. If they are being used for money laundering then they should be exposed. It isn't that hard if you want to make the effort.

[Laird Lugton]

On this non dom issue some of my colleagues were based in Paris and chose to pay tax in France and social security in the UK and it was definitely checked by both the UK and French tax authorities.

 

I too am a PAYE monkey. If I could avoid tax I would given the wasteful nature of the Governments that currently serve me.....

[oowee]

I have to stand up for our Dave (thats a first and it hurts me to say it) on this one but he has done more to try to clamp down on this stuff than most. Particularly working with our EU neighbours to try and close some of the gaps. Not enough I would say but more than most. What we need is more money going to the Revenue so that they can get a grip of this stuff and simplify the whole tax process in between.

I cant understand why we cant make M Fonseca an illegal organisation on the back of this for supporting money laundering. I guess we have to wait for the US to take action.

[panoma1]

I'm a pensioner and do not work now but because I have planned my finances for my retirement I have a reasonable monthly pension which is my only source of income...........I still pay income tax, I resent this, I also resent the fact that I have paid my income tax and national insurance via PAYE all my working life, I pay and have overpaid my share over a lifetime (and am still paying) because of people not paying a fair amount of tax via fiddles or/and these tax avoidance schemes.

 

The reason why ordinary people fiddle the tax system is usually through a mixture of greed and necessity because they want/need to earn decent money in order for them and their families to live a decent life.....the wealthy use the system to avoid tax out of pure greed

 

If these tax avoiders were to pay a similar percentage of their income in tax equal to the percentage ordinary PAYE tax payers pay the NHS and public services wouldn't be strapped for cash and the ordinary taxpayer wouldn't be struggling alone to bring this country out of the "austerity" measures the government are imposing!

[oowee]

I'm a pensioner and do not work now but because I have planned my finances for my retirement I have a reasonable monthly pension which is my only source of income...........I still pay income tax, I resent this, I also resent the fact that I have paid my income tax and national insurance via PAYE all my working life, I pay and have overpaid my share over a lifetime (and am still paying) because of people not paying a fair amount of tax via fiddles or/and these tax avoidance schemes.

 

The reason why ordinary people fiddle the tax system is usually through a mixture of greed and necessity because they want/need to earn decent money in order for them and their families to live a decent life.....the wealthy use the system to avoid tax out of pure greed

 

If these tax avoiders were to pay a similar percentage of their income in tax equal to the percentage ordinary PAYE tax payers pay the NHS and public services wouldn't be strapped for cash and the ordinary taxpayer wouldn't be struggling alone to bring this country out of the "austerity" measures the government are imposing!

Too true. As you say its not just the wealthy its the cash job's that go through to avoid vat and tax and it all mounts up.

[scobydog]

Just seen the Icelandic pm has resigned because of the furore.

 

S

[CharlieT]

HMRC don't chase the big boys because it costs too much, and the little people who fiddle all the time but spend everything, have not got anything for them to take. Everyone in between gets pestered.

 

Actually that's not correct. This http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/Articles/2011/10/20/30821/gaines-cooper-loses-supreme-court-appeal follows a 13 year HMRC battle.

[keg]

I'm not sure how much the politicians etc can be criticised for tax avoidance; there are many people doing exactly the same but on a much smaller scale no matter what their social standing and financial situation, from the likes of millionaires such as many politicians and celebrities such as Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow to the average man on the street.

The only difference is, is that the wealthy can afford to hire accountants who can administer the methods so they can legally avoid paying tax, whereas the average man on the street can't, so simply doesn't declare it.

It is a very grey line between undeclared tax and tax avoidance. One is legal, the other not. The average man on the street knows what he is doing is wrong, but while the rich get richer by such schemes, you'd have a job convincing the other to stop doing it.

What needs to be answered is who created the legal loopholes and for what reason.

The govt creates tax policy along, get the accountants to do it. I'm marries to one.

 

I did once say at a party that lawyers and accountants are like prostitutes. No matter what the economy is like, they are always needed, you know you are going to get screwed and you never know what you'll walk away with.

 

 

Then i was hit as most of our friends are lawyers or accountants...

[keg]

Th

 

The 'Cameron' name gives this more impact but as keg says back in the 80's this was considered the way to reduce/avoid tax and don't forget 30-40yrs ago we had tax breaks where you could lose 80-90% to The Revenue. The bigger issue for me is if this proves or rather confirms what might be happening to international aid ie how much of our aid disappears into this fog of finance and doesn't reach the poor it was intended for. One of the headlines was that this is killing children (Dianne Abbott - horrible person that she is??) and for just once in my life I might actually agree with her.

The Icelandic PM looks as if he might be lynched!

There is some truth in this, a friend owns a small Hotel in Seychelles and has been offered sacks of staples with the UN logo all over it and has seen it in kitchens of some of the other hotels xxxx

[rjimmer]

 

Actually that's not correct. This http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/Articles/2011/10/20/30821/gaines-cooper-loses-supreme-court-appeal follows a 13 year HMRC battle.

Just going on what an accountant once told me. It was more than 13 years ago though.

That case was about a point of law rather than a point of fact as in accounts auditing.

Edited April 5, 2016 by rjimmer

[SNS]

I'm a pensioner and do not work now but because I have planned my finances for my retirement I have a reasonable monthly pension which is my only source of income...........I still pay income tax, I resent this, I also resent the fact that I have paid my income tax and national insurance via PAYE all my working life, I pay and have overpaid my share over a lifetime (and am still paying) because of people not paying a fair amount of tax via fiddles or/and these tax avoidance schemes.

The reason why ordinary people fiddle the tax system is usually through a mixture of greed and necessity because they want/need to earn decent money in order for them and their families to live a decent life.....the wealthy use the system to avoid tax out of pure greed

If these tax avoiders were to pay a similar percentage of their income in tax equal to the percentage ordinary PAYE tax payers pay the NHS and public services wouldn't be strapped for cash and the ordinary taxpayer wouldn't be struggling alone to bring this country out of the "austerity" measures the government are imposing!

Last time I checked, the 300,000 highest earners in this Country paid 25% of the total income tax for the Country. But it's always easy to bash the rich isn't it ?

[vole]

So where has the Late Mr Cameron's money gone ? Local donkey sanctuary ? Rebekah Brookes riding school ?Floated further offshore ? Please don't try to equate this cynical sleight of hand with the £5 you give the window cleaner . This is the sort of money that could open hospitals or protect the steel industry if they had policies to do so .

[panoma1]

Last time I checked, the 300,000 highest earners in this Country paid 25% of the total income tax for the Country. But it's always easy to bash the rich isn't it ?

You assume I have a problem with the rich! I don't............and the problem I was eluding to isn't created by rich tax payers its created by rich tax evaders

[achosenman]

So where has the Late Mr Cameron's money gone ? Local donkey sanctuary ? Rebekah Brookes riding school ?Floated further offshore ? Please don't try to equate this cynical sleight of hand with the £5 you give the window cleaner . This is the sort of money that could open hospitals or protect the steel industry if they had policies to do so .

 

Sorry mate it's not £5. It runs into tens of thousands every year. They show enough to HMRC to pay basic tax and the rest is back pocket cash.

 

ATB

[Jaymo]

So where has the Late Mr Cameron's money gone ? Local donkey sanctuary ? Rebekah Brookes riding school ?Floated further offshore ? Please don't try to equate this cynical sleight of hand with the £5 you give the window cleaner . This is the sort of money that could open hospitals or protect the steel industry if they had policies to do so .

 

But it is the same as the fiver in the back pocket- I know that many wish to bash on and on about the high society and Conservatives ( hmmm, me thinks this is not just restricted to this party either) but it is the SAME

Just on a grander scale.

Like going to the 'horses' . You have £50 in your pocket to bet and that's what you have- guy next to you has £500. And so it goes on.

I do believe we have such a gimme gimme me me society that it's so easy to ramp up the prejudice against those more fortunate.

Money make money- always has and always will. But if those making it, stop making it,then the filter down to everyone else is I believe ( yes I'm entitled to my own opinion) quite considerable.

 

Aaaah, got to love PW, and the Daily rags

[oowee]

I wish my window cleaner was £5. Last week it was £25 and when they do the roof its £30. Not bad for 20mins work. Still he does have to pay tax on that.

[vole]

Was wondering who got dads dirty cash ,I hope it is traced . However legal , it stinks to high heaven .