bostonmick Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Why exactly are the NRA and gun lobby against tightening up the laws? Is it because they have got things to hide themselves. Call me a cynic if you wish but with revenue of some 228 million a year and almost half coming in one way or another from the industry itself could it be money is the reason they resist control of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 In my personal opinion the way so many Americans seem to wedded to the right to bear arms (largely unregulated) is little more than collective insanity. Can you imagine a civilised country enacting legislation to create the situation they now have in the USA? It's unthinkable, but that is what they have. There are powerful lobbies in the USA (oil, guns, church) and a US politician would be broken if they attempted to suggest what they are doing is in fact totally mental. The thought that I could be shopping for groceries surrounded by people tooled up makes me physically sick and I'm very glad i don't live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Switzerland is a very civilised country, over half the population are required by the government to keep "military" semi-automatic firearms at home, no mass shootings because of it. The vast majority of gun deaths in the USA (over 90%) are gang related with illegally held firearms. There is no easy answer to this one, I know quite a few American gun owners and the biggest difference to those here in the UK is that they enjoy shooting and are not afraid to stand up and say so for fear of being branded as some sort of nutter with an unhealthy interest in guns which they don't need to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Lots of backwards and forwards with this, as usual. looking at the main point - the nightclub shooting- the question I haven't seen answered properly yet isn't how, but why? was he a terrorist? was he homophobic? was he mentally unstable? all roads point to yes on all 3 counts, and yet still no firm answers. i'm smart enough to realise that their gun culture over there is entirely different to ours, so carrying a gun there is like me taking my phone with me when I leave the house. its everyday life. and yes, I do believe that they should be allowed to open/concealed carry and own 'assault rifles' I'm also smart enough to know that you cant just 'ban guns' over there as the whole situation has gone too far past the point of no return that it just wouldn't work. their problem isn't a gun problem, its a security and mentality problem. too many guns left lying around and not properly secured, and too many guns made freely available to people with mental health issues and shady pasts. their current background checks don't work, and as such, they continue to allow dodgy people to buy guns. when you give a gun to a nutter, the chances of you getting shot are far higher. until this sinks in out there, and they do something more to stop these people having access to firearms, then things like this shooting will continue to happen. banning guns will not make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 The thought that I could be shopping for groceries surrounded by people tooled up makes me physically sick and I'm very glad i don't live there. Not at all far fetched apparently : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 In my personal opinion the way so many Americans seem to wedded to the right to bear arms (largely unregulated) is little more than collective insanity. Can you imagine a civilised country enacting legislation to create the situation they now have in the USA? It's unthinkable, but that is what they have. There are powerful lobbies in the USA (oil, guns, church) and a US politician would be broken if they attempted to suggest what they are doing is in fact totally mental. The thought that I could be shopping for groceries surrounded by people tooled up makes me physically sick and I'm very glad i don't live there. So if (in your opinion) they are 'collectively insane' they should not be allowed to have firearms anyway. If the majority of the US populace dont want this any more,they could perhaps vote against it? Can I imagine a civilised country enacting laws to enable a 2nd ammendment style right to bear arms NOW ? No I cant,but not for the reasons you are thinking. Yes there are powerful lobbies in the US ,the NRA being one of them,but the NRA isnt some shadowy organisation ,its a firearm owners and 2nd amdt 'club' a bit like our BASC. You feel physically sick around people with guns? I wouldnt go clay pigeon shooting or join a target club then,or go near any police armed response,just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) deleted Edited June 15, 2016 by Muddy Funker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Not at all far fetched apparently : This is usually done as a protest ,it isnt normal open carry behaviour. And is condoned by the police. As you can see,they are without magazines in the rifles. So would you feel sick if you saw this in Tesco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 This is usually done as a protest ,it isnt normal open carry behaviour. And is condoned by the police. As you can see,they are without magazines in the rifles. So would you feel sick if you saw this in Tesco? Tesco ? Depends, if law and order had broken down and we woz fillin trollies with baked beans perhaps not but any other situation including if I saw it whilst on holiday over there I'd be thinking what ends of a basic percussion instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Tesco ? Depends, if law and order had broken down and we woz fillin trollies with baked beans perhaps not but any other situation including if I saw it whilst on holiday over there I'd be thinking what ends of a basic percussion instrument. I'm not saying for a moment I'd want to see this over here but many people in northern Ireland carry personal protection weapons on a daily basis, including going shopping etc (just highlighting its not that far fetched and does happen even in the UK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Because they believe when the time comes to rise up against their government they'll be able to take on the Police/US army and win. A much bigger but well disguised reason is that they think one day one ethnic group will have to shoot it out with another - and make merica great again. Not exactly true; it is for the resistance of a tyrannical government should the need ever arise. I've never heard of any suggesting they could overthrow a hostile regime, but you're overlooking the fact that many of the USA Police and Armed forces consist of people who believe in the American constitution and the 2nd Amendment. They swear allegiance to their flag on a daily basis. Your second sentence is simply sensationalistic. You're painting a picture of a country of inbred knuckle draggers. They certainly exist, as they do in most countries, but there are some very intelligent people in America, whom nevertheless, believe in the right to self defence. I can't see what is wrong with that. I accept that there is a world of difference between carrying a handgun for such a purpose and being allowed to possess a military rifle, so I'm assuming you were fully in favour of the legislation following Hungerford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Its not about people who carry guns because they can,its about lawful people ,who have a legal reason and right, to carry if they want to. I am pretty certain that the mass shooter/killer who gets up one morning and thinks ' Todays the day,Im off on a mad shooting spree,but dammit ! I dont have an AR15, so I cant ' has never existed. He will use what he has,be it gun ,knife,car or rock. What he wont do is attack people who might be a bit too dangerous to him,he will target the weak/unarmed/unprepared. He will not bring a knife to a gunfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Its not about people who carry guns because they can,its about lawful people ,who have a legal reason and right, to carry if they want to. I am pretty certain that the mass shooter/killer who gets up one morning and thinks ' Todays the day,Im off on a mad shooting spree,but dammit ! I dont have an AR15, so I cant ' has never existed. He will use what he has,be it gun ,knife,car or rock. What he wont do is attack people who might be a bit too dangerous to him,he will target the weak/unarmed/unprepared. He will not bring a knife to a gunfight. Exactly you can not legislate against such people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 If I had my way I'd say. Stuff this I'm moving to USA where gun owners stand up for each other unlike this **** hole of a country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 If I had my way I'd say. Stuff this I'm moving to USA where gun owners stand up for each other unlike this **** hole of a country I heard a rumour that there are planes leaving Heathrow on a regular basis bound for USA.if your only criteria for the worth of a country is the gun owners support for each other.bon voyage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) I heard a rumour that there are planes leaving Heathrow on a regular basis bound for USA.if your only criteria for the worth of a country is the gun owners support for each other.bon voyageits not the only criteria its one of many.shooters/hunters over really don't give a toss unless it affects there shooting Ps before any of us try and help USA we need to sort out are laws Edited June 15, 2016 by martyn2233 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 So if (in your opinion) they are 'collectively insane' they should not be allowed to have firearms anyway. If the majority of the US populace dont want this any more,they could perhaps vote against it? Can I imagine a civilised country enacting laws to enable a 2nd ammendment style right to bear arms NOW ? No I cant,but not for the reasons you are thinking. Yes there are powerful lobbies in the US ,the NRA being one of them,but the NRA isnt some shadowy organisation ,its a firearm owners and 2nd amdt 'club' a bit like our BASC. You feel physically sick around people with guns? I wouldnt go clay pigeon shooting or join a target club then,or go near any police armed response,just in case. Ummmm, no, it's not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) its not the only criteria its one of many. shooters/hunters over really don't give a toss unless it affects there shooting Ps before any of us try and help USA we need to sort out are laws I would in no way try and help the USA it's their bed as they say so let them lie in it.one small point if you were injured in this country whether by gunshot or any other means you go to hospital where the primary concern is to ascertain the extent of your injuries and treat them.unlike the caring USA where it would be does your insurance cover you.or if not can you raise the funds.we like many countries may not be perfect but in many important ways we are years ahead of some.it seems that the subject of this thread has been completely lost and those Killed and injured along with the families devastated by this is now second place to gun owners giving each other a big ol pat on the back. Priorities I guess Edited June 15, 2016 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 .it seems that the subject of this thread has been completely lost and those Killed and injured along with the families devastated by this is now second place to gun owners giving each other a big ol pat on the back. Priorities I guess Tell that to Obama and his cronies,who wasted mere hours before they were calling for more gun control. Priorities == Agendas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Not exactly true; it is for the resistance of a tyrannical government should the need ever arise. I've never heard of any suggesting they could overthrow a hostile regime, but you're overlooking the fact that many of the USA Police and Armed forces consist of people who believe in the American constitution and the 2nd Amendment. They swear allegiance to their flag on a daily basis. Your second sentence is simply sensationalistic. You're painting a picture of a country of inbred knuckle draggers. They certainly exist, as they do in most countries, but there are some very intelligent people in America, whom nevertheless, believe in the right to self defence. I can't see what is wrong with that. I accept that there is a world of difference between carrying a handgun for such a purpose and being allowed to possess a military rifle, so I'm assuming you were fully in favour of the legislation following Hungerford. My post was tongue in cheek but essentially they do think they can tackle a "tyrannical" government with small arms, maybe but that would depend hugely on the right heads of police and the right army generals being on side otherwise it'll just be hillbilly slaughter in the main. Unfortunately even AR's are useless when a drone is heading for your hideout. My second sentence was sensationalistic I agree but there definitely is an element of the not so bright who are practically praying for a patriotic gun fight. I'm in favour of anything that can intelligibly be shown to prevent high capacity war weaponry getting into the wrong hands, that means restricting their easy availability such as is the case over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm in favour of anything that can intelligibly be shown to prevent high capacity war weaponry getting into the wrong hands, that means restricting their easy availability such as is the case over there. Wander how many rocks were in Cains 'clip' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Tell that to Obama and his cronies,who wasted mere hours before they were calling for more gun control. Priorities == Agenda Is that not politicians the world over.always weigh up the benefits to themselves from any situation before action. I seem to recall a similar situation with a bloke called tony and winning votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Trump is now also calling for tighter gun control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Well with some/quite a few exceptions I am relatively happy with the gun laws here . I think the cat's been out the bag too long in the US for it to be put back in . Unsure how a concealed carry .38 will help much when the problem is an AK or similar . We have a growing issue both there and here . No need to hand bad guys the guns . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Unsure how a concealed carry .38 will help much when the problem is an AK or similar . We have a growing issue both there and here . No need to hand bad guys the guns .I'm also unsure how well a .38 would fare against an AK or similar, but I'm certain it would be a 100% improvement on having nothing as was the case in this incidence; and isn't it always the case? Like all these shootings, the shooter picks the softest targets and the path of least resistance.It may make for a snappy sound bite but no one is handing guns to bad guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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