12gauge82 Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 the country voted leave and thats that we need to make the best of it, in terms of Farage why has he now walked away he should be a part of the next phase and finish what he started not happy he and others are not seeing it throughFarage would probably love to but his party is not in power so cant, he's still in the eu parliament I believe so will probably have an input there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Look, the EU in its current form, is undemocratic and, effectively, moribund (the EU is NOT Europe or Europeans, lets stop conflating the two). However, under its current Hitler (Juncker) and his cohorts it steadfastly refuses to deviate from it's master plan. A plan that has destroyed Greece and crippled many of the Southern European countries. A plan that forces austerity down peoples throats whilst obeying its corporate paymasters. A plan that does not serve the people of Europe. We, many, the majority, in the UK gave that two fingers, some of us were a bit thick and thought that that meant we could send the muslims home, but being hard of thinking isn't an exclusively Brexit mindset, I listened to several people bemoaning that what they loved about the EU was the NHS and if we voted Brexit that it would be doomed in the hands of the Tories. One has to wonder. Many realised that this could affect the City, and trading, but sometimes there is more to life that the FTSE250, FTSE100 or LSE, that thing is called people, and their freedom to elect a government that is directly accountable to them. Perhaps, if Juncker is ousted and the EU radically reformed to be more socially responsible to all its members, we could as a country reconsider our position. But currently, without addressing the serious social problems and divisions of wealth and entitlement in this country, the general public are unlikely to support that choice. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Jaymo - I see you are still unable to answer a straight question. At what number would you draw the line? The figures you cite aren't worth a bean. They are divorced from reality - they actually reminded me of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Thanks Gordon Best I go back to the fantasy land that I obviously live in. Btw, official figures have 'Net Migration' as 188000 give or take and were a populace of 64,000,000 so that's around the 0.002% quoted. Anyway chaps - been fun , gained some respect for some and lost a bit for others, and not just on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 the country voted leave and thats that we need to make the best of it, in terms of Farage why has he now walked away he should be a part of the next phase and finish what he started not happy he and others are not seeing it through He walked away because he`d achieved his ambition. That`s fairly straightforward and reasonable (at least imo). There`s absolutely nothing stopping him being involved in the negotiations for what happens next. However that would be totally dependent on the future PM and the team delegated to carry out the negotiations. If he`s not invited into that team there`s absolutely nothing he can do. The only job he has given up is leadership of his party. He`s still an MEP and as such he`s promised to keep an eye on things. The same goes for Daniel Hannan. The only person who could be said to have walked away is Boris as he has not run for PM. Again though he may be invited to take some role in cabinet or as part of the negotiation team. At this time though it`s just speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Look, the EU in its current form, is undemocratic and, effectively, moribund (the EU is NOT Europe or Europeans, lets stop conflating the two). However, under its current Hitler (Juncker) and his cohorts it steadfastly refuses to deviate from it's master plan. A plan that has destroyed Greece and crippled many of the Southern European countries. A plan that forces austerity down peoples throats whilst obeying its corporate paymasters. A plan that does not serve the people of Europe. Perhaps, if Juncker is ousted and the EU radically reformed to be more socially responsible to all its members, we could as a country reconsider our position. But currently, without addressing the serious social problems and divisions of wealth and entitlement in this country, the general public are unlikely to support that choice. That is one thing that has become perfectly clear since the referendum and has rather proved the Leave campaign`s point of view. Juncker has steadfastly refused to acknowledge that freedom of movement has contributed to the result and shows no sign of reforming any time soon. He`s also been called on to resign and has refused. Fair enough you may say, that`s his choice. But it has proved that there`s no democratic way to remove him from office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 It's not just freedom of movement, its the whole 'ram austerity down their throats - let them eat cake' stuff, that and the steadfast refusal to listen, alter or reform. We're not the only ones fed up with it. Things WILL change there, maybe, if they change enough to be more egalitarian, we could consider our decision. At the moment that seems unlikely. The day after Juncker walked past the assembled journalists with his fingers in his ears - doesn't that just about sum the whole edifice of the EU up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Best I go back to the fantasy land that I obviously live in. Btw, official figures have 'Net Migration' as 188000 give or take and were a populace of 64,000,000 so that's around the 0.002% quoted. Only a simpleton would accept those figures. They are laughable. I see you still won't come up with an immigration cap. Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Charming Calling one 'Pathetic', had we met then maybe you could form this opinion, but to do so from the anonymity of a Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Jaymo - I see you don't find it easy to answer a straight question. It just about sums up your attitude. :whistling: Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Gordon Sorry I didn't see your post/request The current net migration stood at what? 188000- is that not less than .002% of the current total population, which given the proportion of them that are actively working? Say 50%? Really is a drop in the ocean to 'debbie' and her 7 kids on benefits ( I'm so sorry if your names Debbie- first one that popped into my head, ex gf from Newark so maybe she does have 7 kids now?) With the U.K. Populace currently expanding as it is then how can this small percentage bee seen as a major draw on the Governemt Purse We all saw the total EU budget which paled into insignificance compared to the welfare budget. Like I said, not bitter and more than happy to hold my own but to be honest I joined PW for what it was and not what this section has become. Let the Politicians do what they were elected to do and let's go back to bunny/clay/ paper bashing instead of each other! Stop using the term NET Migration.....we are not interested in those who leave, only in those who arrive! Net migration is used to con people that things are not as bad as we think.............and the reason the UK population is increasing is the flow of EU economic migrants, asylum seekers (and 90% of those are bogus, government figures) and illegals. All who have a birthrate higher than the indigenous population! So are we to understand you're mostly peed off with the brexit vote because of the way you think it will effect your wallet? I would think the reason your wife's grandfather was at Juno was because the government of the day decided we should rightly withstand and overthrow a dictatorship in favour of a democracy which gave us the freedom of choice? That freedom of choice was used last month, but sadly for some, not enough people cared enough to vote the way some wished. I was t happy when the tories got in; tough **** ; that's democracy. What else would you have us do....best out of three? Excellent! the country voted leave and thats that we need to make the best of it, in terms of Farage why has he now walked away he should be a part of the next phase and finish what he started not happy he and others are not seeing it through what "others" ? He achieved what he wanted to achieve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Charming Calling one 'Pathetic', had we met then maybe you could form this opinion, but to do so from the anonymity of a Forum Then call Gordons bluff......name a figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Stop using the term NET Migration.....we are not interested in those who leave, only in those who arrive! Net migration is used to con people that things are not as bad as we think.............and the reason the UK population is increasing is the flow of EU economic migrants, asylum seekers (and 90% of those are bogus, government figures) and illegals. All who have a birthrate higher than the indigenous population! Excellent! what "others" ? He achieved what he wanted to achieve! You may be, but international students coming to the UK are big business. Knowledge export is a UK strength, 436000 students in 2014/15 estimated value 14bn. They come and go or stay to work, surely we don't want to turn our backs on business? This must be measured 'net'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Look, the EU in its current form, is undemocratic and, effectively, moribund (the EU is NOT Europe or Europeans, lets stop conflating the two). However, under its current Hitler (Juncker) and his cohorts it steadfastly refuses to deviate from it's master plan. A plan that has destroyed Greece and crippled many of the Southern European countries. A plan that forces austerity down peoples throats whilst obeying its corporate paymasters. A plan that does not serve the people of Europe. We, many, the majority, in the UK gave that two fingers, some of us were a bit thick and thought that that meant we could send the muslims home, but being hard of thinking isn't an exclusively Brexit mindset, I listened to several people bemoaning that what they loved about the EU was the NHS and if we voted Brexit that it would be doomed in the hands of the Tories. One has to wonder. Many realised that this could affect the City, and trading, but sometimes there is more to life that the FTSE250, FTSE100 or LSE, that thing is called people, and their freedom to elect a government that is directly accountable to them. Perhaps, if Juncker is ousted and the EU radically reformed to be more socially responsible to all its members, we could as a country reconsider our position. But currently, without addressing the serious social problems and divisions of wealth and entitlement in this country, the general public are unlikely to support that choice. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Brilliantly put! We are not leaving Europe we are just ending our subscription to a corrupt organisation that is overbearing, damaging not only us but many other countries as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Only a simpleton would accept those figures. They are laughable. I see you still won't come up with an immigration cap. Pathetic. I totally agree with your assertion that only a simpleton would accept the official figures. The reality is they haven't got even the faintest idea. That to me is actually more worrying that believing they just deliberately supressed the true figures. The lack of any semblance of control is eye watering and totally the fault of the British Government, but they are going to be the last to admit it. Edited July 6, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Vince - I have to agree, but those with little or no knowledge still cite figures and claim they are official, when in reality they are plucked out of the air. Just where do the official figures come from? How can they count what they do not know? They are an invention to re-assure the masses. Jaymo - I find it pathetic that you cannot answer a straight question. I have formed a poor opinion of your posts, as they contain reasoning of a very limited level. Personally, I think you are just trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 You may be, but international students coming to the UK are big business. Knowledge export is a UK strength, 436000 students in 2014/15 estimated value 14bn. They come and go or stay to work, surely we don't want to turn our backs on business? This must be measured 'net'. How many illegally overstayed? How many are "bogus"? No one is saying that foreign students should not come to the UK to study, provided that A. they do not take a place that could have been given to a British student, and B. They leave immediately after completing thier course, unless they have a skill we need. And student figures are being used as a smokescreen....we are talking about economic migrants, bogus asylum seekers (United Nations states that they should seek shelter in the FIRST safe country they come to, not cross 2 continents to get here!) and illegals. Vince - I have to agree, but those with little or no knowledge still cite figures and claim they are official, when in reality they are plucked out of the air. Just where do the official figures come from? How can they count what they do not know? They are an invention to re-assure the masses. Jaymo - I find it pathetic that you cannot answer a straight question. I have formed a poor opinion of your posts, as they contain reasoning of a very limited level. Personally, I think you are just trolling. For more accurate figures, go to Migration Watch.....they are usually right, and prove government figures as being laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 If the government do not invoke Article 50 in the next 12 months, or start back-sliding, then on 23rd June next year, there should be a mass rally in London......and a campaign to out all those MP,s who defy the will of the people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Is May the best choice? http://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/ Are we being manipulated to support the wrong candidate? Was Ken Clarke's little tirade that candid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Running away from the responsibility, like Boris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Is May the best choice? http://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/ Are we being manipulated to support the wrong candidate? Was Ken Clarke's little tirade that candid? I think a lot in that article was probably true. I do believe though that one of the big bonuses of Brexit will be the stripping away of several layers of the "we would love to do something about it but we cant" excuse culture that has smothered this country in inactivity. "Its their Human Rights" or "EU law wont let us" can't be hidden behind anymore as the universal "computer say no" to every situation Time will tell, nieve or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Jaymo - I find it pathetic that you cannot answer a straight question. I have formed a poor opinion of your posts, as they contain reasoning of a very limited level. Personally, I think you are just trolling. Gordon, Jay, like most people on PW, has absolutely no resemblance to a troll. He is somewhat taller. He does, however have very valid points on how Brexit personally affects him and his family, most of which I have great sympathy with. We have no idea, yet, which way this vote will pan out and many on both sides of a relatively balanced result may well regret which way they voted. Disagreement with your arguments is not trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Gordon, Jay, like most people on PW, has absolutely no resemblance to a troll. He is somewhat taller. He does, however have very valid points on how Brexit personally affects him and his family, most of which I have great sympathy with. We have no idea, yet, which way this vote will pan out and many on both sides of a relatively balanced result may well regret which way they voted. Disagreement with your arguments is not trolling But my hair Is a bit 'troll' like, oh and my belly too--- it's those meals after my massage that does it :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 amateur - you have a point. However, Jaymo will not be pressed on just how many he would allow in. Given the figures he cites and his views on the subject, I find it more than odd. I consider him to be trolling. I disagree with many people on here and I am sure the same is true of my views. I do not regard them as trolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Is May the best choice? http://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/ Are we being manipulated to support the wrong candidate? Was Ken Clarke's little tirade that candid? May is NOT the best choice! 6 years as Home Secretary, and what has she achieved? Virtually nothing! Running away from the responsibility, like Boris. How did Boris run away? He was back-stabbed by Gove, and found thatALL his supporters had switched to Gove! Nothing else he could do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.