Architect disclaimers

[Twistedsanity]

Looking for q bit of advice, our architect has dropped a teste and measured a window wrongly on his plans, to cut a long story short I'm now going to have to have a window removed and replaced with a smaller unit and whatever extra work that entails (it's only a year old).

Some smallprint on the plans says "all dimensions on millimetres and to be confirmed on site", is this a get out clause so he isn't financially liable for the mistake? it's an existing window that is going to foul the new flat roof and he has measured it as being 20cm smaller than it actually is

[lord_seagrave]

Has he already denied liability and/or refusing to pay?

 

LS

[robbiep]

The architect should have professional indemnity insurance in place. And no, that clause is not a 'get-out', he is supposed to be a professional, that's why you employed him.

[Twistedsanity]

Just emailed him explaining the issue and asking him to call me, his fees probably equal the cost of rectifying his mistake! He is listed as "architectural designs" rather than a member of a professional organisation but came highly recommend and has been doing local work for nearly 20 years,other than this everything seems spot on to the mm

[Savhmr]

Irrespective of professional Indemnity Insurance, you are covered in civil law by the Consumers Rights Act and if the mistake was his, he is liable for all associated costs in making good.

 

It also depends on who is responsible for "supervision" on site and when the mistake was picked up. If windows were custom made to his plans, and the plan dimensions were not the correct ones, he is responsible for ensuring that any mistakes are picked up on the drawings before they are issued. It is not down to you or the installing contractor to pick out the mistakes and make good at your own cost.

 

Did you sign a contract? What was the basis under which the work was done?

 

His only get out clause is if you supplied him with the opening dimensions which later turned out to be wrong. Then it is reasonable to expect the person measuring up to take responsibility. You are not obliged to pay any further fees if the mistake was his. These things can usually be worked out amicably. If he's providing a professional service, his insurance will (should) foot the bill.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Savhmr

[Twistedsanity]

Thanks, all measurements were completed by him, this is an existing window on the side of the house (landing) that he has measured incorrectly when he did his drawings, the roofline of the single story side extension (flat roof) shows as being just below the bottom of the window on his drawings, in fact it will come 20cm above the existing window sill as he measured the window incorrectly (on his drawing it's smaller than it actually is), he gave us a list of his charges for completing the work which we agreed to and paid upon completion

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Watching this one with interest, good luck.

[Cosd]

Thanks, all measurements were completed by him, this is an existing window on the side of the house (landing) that he has measured incorrectly when he did his drawings, the roofline of the single story side extension (flat roof) shows as being just below the bottom of the window on his drawings, in fact it will come 20cm above the existing window sill as he measured the window incorrectly (on his drawing it's smaller than it actually is), he gave us a list of his charges for completing the work which we agreed to and paid upon completion

So if I understand correctly, the side extension roof, if built would be higher than the bottom of the side window.

 

Whether he made a mistake or not, the height of the roof, unless it's higher than normal has to finish at the given height and the existing window made smaller.

Failing that, lower the roof height to finish below the window.

[Twistedsanity]

Yes cosd that's exactly it, all the brickwork is up as are all of the rafters so re organising the roof isn't an option, there is a 7" fall from the front of the roof to the back, once this is added along with the 120mm insulation and two sheets of ply and felt (warm deck construction as dictated in the plans) it will mean the roofline is above the window before any flashing is added, so the window needs removing and replacing with a smaller unit

[millrace]

oh dear dont tell me the "comic print" has something wrong on it........lol

he should cover it, but as always they will blame others did he survey your house or go of an original set of plans,, as the building was being done this should have been picked on before now,, then you could have poss worked in a lowered concealed gutter along the wall easy enough still to do,,chain saw rip saw cpl hrs job done no need to move the window...check your insulation spec u values etc a different thinner board with same value may also help few different ways of gettn round things all comes to cost ease of doing and who is stumping up......never a day goes by when i dont lift a comic with a mistake on just today looking a plan rear section is to deep for traditional subfloor,, so phone call to architect to confirm depth on drawing yes thats correct says he,,well you be want prestessed floor slabs now says i.....lol its only 2foot deeper than you can fill....lol aaaaaa spose so...how much more......lol

[vampire]

insulated garage roof, non habitable !,but if you have to then insulate between rafters.

[silver pigeon69]

I had to phone the structural engineer to ask him how he would like me to attach the PCC lintel, for the new door opening, to the existing (wood) stud wall!! LOL!! He decided maybe double 150 x 50 wood lintels would be ok instead!!

 

Twistedsanity: I dont know the whole story, but i would have thought the builder would have checked the clearance under the window and worked backwards as such to confirm the height of the new wall(and could have made it one brick course less?)?? Or at least picked up the problem before the rafters were laid.

[Twistedsanity]

It's a wraparound extension and lowering one brick course would have thrown everything out as the rear roof is part flat and part pitched, to get round it we would have to completely redo the entire extension.height, change the roof from a warm.deck to a cold deck(lots or aggro apparently) or replace the window, clearly the window he has drawn on the plans is not the size it is in reality, the brickie said it looked a bit tight and it's the roofer who has realised it's not going to fit, the contractors have done everything exactly as per the drawings and even commented on how good the drawings were, clearly it's a silly mistake made on the drawing and I don't believe it's anything more sinister or incompetent than that, but it's not my mistake it's the architects and I'm not seeing any reason why I should be shelling out for a new smaller window along with a couple of courses of brickwork and plastering due to someone else's male.chicken up

[team tractor]

Being in the building trade my whole life I've never relied on a drawing for window sizes.

I always measure the brick work personally and when doing extentions we always look to see if it'll work before commencing work.

Many a time we've told them it's not possible and we end up falling out.

Normally on our drawings it states we are to measure our own windows to confirm sizes.

 

Hope you get it sorted but maybe the builder should of thought about these bits. We all work as a team in building.

 

I've recently seen a picture of my old apprentice building a small pitched roof and it worked to a few inches below the window without tiles or lathe or 150 of lead . I'd love to see how he worked it.

The key word is communication .

 

Hope it works out

[Twistedsanity]

I do understand your point but this is an existing window, that's lone asking the builder to go around the house measuring every wall and door before commencing work which would make me wonder why i paid an architect in the first place, as an experienced builder would you suck up the cost of this error personally or put it on the architect? The guy I employed sid the groundwork, he employed a brickie to do the brickwork and now a roofer to do the timbers, he will then return with a sparks and complete the job, the length of the fall on the roof is over a 27ft length (9inches I believe) so I can see how it was missed by the builder as the existing ground along the side of the house drops off about 18" in the opposite direction to the roof fall, what I do know is its not my fault!

[Twistedsanity]

Oh dear, it appears he is arguing that the Cost to me would have been the same because the builder would have quoted including the window removal If the plans were correct initially and as they were wrong I still have to pay the same amount, no mention that he could have designed it differently so either way I would have paid the same price to the builder, from his response I am guessing that he has used it a few times before!

[Lloyd90]

Complain to his professional body ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It will be interesting to see if he is a member of any of them.

[Twistedsanity]

It would appear not, he lists as "architectural designs" and no mention of any professional bodies membership, he also drew an existing chimney breast on the exterior design and no notes or mention that it would need removing or just look like a lump that started half way up the wall in my new office

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Oh dear, my Father was with MSAAT, there is RIBA and ACA too I think.

 

 

Starting to look like he is washing his hands of his responsibilities.

 

 

Have a look here;

 

 

http://www.arb.org.uk/complaint-making-a-complaint

Edited August 26, 2016 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Twistedsanity]

Thanks, if he isn't registered though.....

However I will reply to his email explaining that my next course of action will be to use the small claims court procedure to seek compensation for his mistake at which point I will also put in claim for having my hallway professionally re-decorared due to the added plastering needed where the new brick courses are added

[digger]

I did an extension last year - totally run of the mill single story knock through. Architect insisted on a goal post steel even though there was ample bearing. Plus a steel along the bottom, to be bolted, encased in rebar and concreted in. Utterly over the top. When I asked her why she had stipulated such over the top specs she couldn't answer, suggested it was a good idea and it was her first time suggesting it. £1800 in metal and labour. mad, even the building inspector was gob smacked.

[Cosd]

I know this isn't what you're going to want to hear, but had the architect not made a mistake, your roof height would have been the same and you would have had to alter the window anyway.

The only difference is that you found out later than you would have liked.

I don't know where you are in Herts, but I can ask my brother who works at a double glazing firm to see if he can give you a decent price for the said window.

 

Cos

Edited August 26, 2016 by Cosd

[Twistedsanity]

Hi, i have a few glazing firms but appreciate the offer, I get your point and there is a big but, he has designed the roof to have an unusually high ceiling for some reason, I can only assume convenience. I'm not an architect but can see easily how the roof design could.be different and clear the window sill with ease. I think he has measured the window incorrectly and taken the easy design option based on his incorrect measurement, the builder, bricklayer and roofer all commented on how unusually high the ceilings will be due to his design. Clearly as with all builds there is a budget and swallowing an extra £500 due to an error by a paid professional seems very wrong

[vampire]

Hi, i have a few glazing firms but appreciate the offer, I get your point and there is a big but, he has designed the roof to have an unusually high ceiling for some reason, I can only assume convenience. I'm not an architect but can see easily how the roof design could.be different and clear the window sill with ease. I think he has measured the window incorrectly and taken the easy design option based on his incorrect measurement, the builder, bricklayer and roofer all commented on how unusually high the ceilings will be due to his design. Clearly as with all builds there is a budget and swallowing an extra £500 due to an error by a paid professional seems very wrong

But that is your problem in all meanings of the word.

You employed a failed architect/unregistered with a governing body and insurance to fall back on,a builder that relies on sub-contract labour and no constant in overseeing the work or responsibilities and Your problem has been staring you all in the face for the entire contract.

The courts will just ask if you have arbitrated on the matter or appoint a chartered surveyor to act in settlement for both parties.