Pyropredator Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 What are everyone's preferred .410 cartridges for having a play on clays and also knocking over rats around buildings? Currently all I can seem to get hold of are eley 3 inch subs or normals in 6s but these seem to be causing a right mess in my chamber and every now and then not extracting due to getting stuck in all the gunk they leave. The gun is a norica 3 shot bolt action (definitely chambered for 3s) and I have checked the extractor and all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I have to agree with you ,I am using the same gun and also suffering from issues relating to the same cartridges and also extracting the cartridge ,I have stripped down the pin ,reoiled all the working parts checked the extractor for gunk and the same issues continue. Any help for the both of us will be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
222mark Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 winchesters are the best, pricey though. Try lyalvale 21/2 14g or saga 14g if you can source them.very pokey. the best way to go is to homeload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Agreed about the Eley, I've had a number of issues with them. SAGA seem a lot better built cartridge. I actually think they're the same as the Lyalvale, but printed up differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I have to agree with you ,I am using the same gun and also suffering from issues relating to the same cartridges and also extracting the cartridge ,I have stripped down the pin ,reoiled all the working parts checked the extractor for gunk and the same issues continue. Any help for the both of us will be appreciated Same here but with both Eley and Lyalvales. The problem seems to be a weak spring on the extractor claw combined with the cartridges expanding when fired. No solution found yet and gunsmiths not really interested due to lack of parts and value of the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) Not shooting from the same or similar gun it is really impossible to make a comment, but I have tested a number of different brands and still keep returning to Fiocchi 3 inch for my plastic wad/lead loads. Recently tested some Eley bismuth 3 inch (no longer available and they shot clean in my o/u and produced adequate results. At the moment testing some Lylevales felt wads 3 inch #5s and again they shoot clean and pattern well with plenty penetration. I have been shooting RC 3 inch for the latter part of last season and for pigeons recently. They do kill well #6 Italian ?? #5 UK, they are dirty in the barrel and regularly rib half the shell of the cartridge off and up the barrel on firing which is worrying and will not be repeating an order for those...............back to Fiocchi. RCs are the only ones I would call 'dirty' I have a bunch of 3 inch non toxic reloads to test in the next few weeks on ducks. Fiocchi cases and they passed the penetration tests at 30yrds very well and patterned well. The proof of the pudding however. I am experimenting with non toxic loads ...eg rice, wheat etc etc., and attempting to get a sub sonic for my Mossy which is genuinely quiet for rat shooting around agricultural buildings. Not there yet. One problem being you are pushing a much lighter material. Need to discover if bismuth is harmful to cattle/horses/pigs/hens or just stops them having indigestion:-) Edited September 10, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I've tried all sorts and as above, Fiocchi 3" are the best without buying some of the American brands that are silly money. They are hard hitting, plastic only and come in a good range of sizes - Italian 6,7,8,9 so roughly half a size bigger in UK sizing. Available for delivery from Just Cartridges if you don't have a local stockist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Eley seem to be designed for older guns, there's been comment on the forums regarding the very low (~subsonic) velocity of Fourlong. I bought some of the new Eley Trap .410 loads, plastic wad, crimp closure, and have to say I am genuinely stunned. Usual disclaimers, I have been a real critic of Eley's quality control, but the diminutive .410 was busting clays at normal distance with surprising ease. I would actively hunt these out, they are very, very good. Other than that, the Fiocchi are excellent, the Winchester superb ( but too expensive for any other than occasional use). Anyone else tried the Trap .410 in 3", 21 gram ( mixing Imperial and SI units!). What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I read about the new Trap ones somewhere but haven't seen them for sale yet. I'll keep an eye out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I have used some eley trap carts recently and thought they were cracking, these were crimped not rto. Have not gone at any long distance clays yet but at normal ranges they really hit the spot. Also used a box of hulls trap carts think they were 14g and liked them too. Because i had them i shot a few of the 9g 2" at a going away target and as long as it was in the right place it did the trick but sounded like a spud gun going off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) I am half way through a slab of 14g Eley Trap which I have been using over decoys out to near 35yrds and am very pleased with the results, as said they are crimped not roll over and certainly sound more potent than Fourlongs. At a guess I would say they are loaded with a different powder. My go to game cartridge as mentioned before is Fiocchi 3" #7.5 which are actually English #7 which in my mind is just about perfect. However all the above are in my opinion too much for use around barns when shooting rats, I would find some 2.5" #9 (think Lyalevale Express do one) would be better in order to get the pellet patterns required for rats. Edited September 11, 2016 by Dasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Yes I think the Fiocchi 7.5's are perfect too. I'd rather have a few more shot in 410 to give a better pattern and as they should only really be used at fairly close ranges I don't see the point of going any bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyropredator Posted September 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 So I managed to test this a bit more today. I was able to shoot a full box of Lyalvale without any problems, but on shooting around 10 Eleys in fairly quick succession the cartridges started to stick in the chamber, the final one needing a flick out with my penknife to even get it out (normally I can just run the bolt over them again.) So it seems I need to stay away from Eleys in this specific gun, looking at all the suggestions Fiocchi are next on my list to try but none of my local gun shops stock them, unless anyone knows any west Yorkshire shops that have them in at all? Lyalvale are not too bad but are only 16 gram in 3 inch cartridges which feels a little under loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Aaron Wheeler Gunsmiths in Brighouse sell Fiocchi and their prices are good too. They had some in on Thursday. http://www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk They are the only ones anywhere in Yorkshire that I'm aware of - bit of a trek for me from Harrogate so I call in on the rare occasions I'm passing. You've never seen so much stuff in a small shop! I can recommend the Fiocchi 12 bore clay and game cartridges too if you haven't tried them. Otherwise it's Just Cartridges online but they are a bit pricey plus £15 delivery. Edited September 11, 2016 by ChrisPCarter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 There seems to be a resurgence in the use of 410's they were always handy around the garden and outbuildings but never remember them in the field or clay ground Is it because of the 3, inch chamber we see more of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 I am half way through a slab of 14g Eley Trap which I have been using over decoys out to near 35yrds and am very pleased with the results, as said they are crimped not roll over and certainly sound more potent than Fourlongs. At a guess I would say they are loaded with a different powder. My go to game cartridge as mentioned before is Fiocchi 3" #7.5 which are actually English #7 which in my mind is just about perfect. However all the above are in my opinion too much for use around barns when shooting rats, I would find some 2.5" #9 (think Lyalevale Express do one) would be better in order to get the pellet patterns required for rats. I have used the trap 14g 7.5s...like them too...rats don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lksopener Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Fiocchi are the best off the shelf I've tested. However, I got in to .410 and home load now, the possibilities then are endless. I do wish however we could get the American shells, in particular Winchester, I was looking at then last time I was in the states and they are superb compared to any of ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Fiocchi are the best off the shelf I've tested. However, I got in to .410 and home load now, the possibilities then are endless. I do wish however we could get the American shells, in particular Winchester, I was looking at then last time I was in the states and they are superb compared to any of ours. Just Cartridges supply the Winchester ones but at £22 a box or nearly £700 per 1000 they are a little bit too much for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
222mark Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 you can reload to exact winchester spec and performance for a fraction of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugs Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Having had a break from shotguns for 25 odd years and having started rough shooting at the age of 12 (37 years ago!) with a Winchester Model 37A 3" .410, I must say what the hell has happened to the good old Winchester Super X Mag that used to be a reasonable cost! Now £22 odd quid for a box of 25, I used to be able to get them for a few pounds more than the average Eley 12 bore game cartridge. I shot my first Hare, pheasant and most other game with a .410, hell I was a better shot with that than some with a 12 bore. I used to know all the loads and tried most of the cartridges then available. Super X Mag were the ones to beat and great wee cartridge, with no issues. How times change and prices are crazy now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 you can reload to exact winchester spec and performance for a fraction of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 you can reload to exact winchester spec and performance for a fraction of the cost. May I ask what would be a ball park figure for setting yourself up for reloading please.I have thought about trying it for sometime. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Have been shooting 410 now for two succesful seasons of driven birds and into my third. I have returned to Fiocchi for driven days although I have had to turn to Lylevale in the short spell for fibre wads on one syndicate, not used them yet but they work well on the pattern plate and penetration at 30yrds is adequate. Now I have a Mec 600 set up to load 410s I am going to reload all of my shells. I started reloading just for non toxic, but I am so pleased with the performance of the ITX reloads (report on here different thread) that I am going to reload all of my lead as well in the future. Buy sufficient Fiocchis to provide cases when I need them. Still looking for a proper sub sonic ..silent cartridge load for my Mossy pumper, using non toxic to animals shot for rats and magpies round the buildings. Not there just yet. When I hear how much people pay to go and watch 22 overpaid chaps kick a bag of wind about, I can't find anything wrong with how much a box of shells cost. You pays your money and takes your choice I suppose. redial I recently bought a second hand Mec 600 and I am very pleased with it. Took a little fiddling to get it set right but it is now producing some very adequate shells. Shop around and you should be able to find a second hand machine for not too much money. Treat it right and there is little to go wrong. Once you have the press there is little else you need other than components. Cost ?? Yes, you can save a bit but not a huge amount. What reloading does, is allow you to build a load YOU need. Like my ITX non toxic loads, I don't know any manufacturer who uses this shot, I might be wrong and I am certain someone on here will jump in:-) I was able to load some non toxic a bit cheaper and as proved this weekend, more than adequate to do the job, with a few more pieces of shot in the pattern than factory ... yes only a few but every little helps when you shoot like I do :-) The only supplier I know of and use are Clay & Game but there must be others. I had excellent advice from them on loads. There are a number of guys on here who know far more about it than I do, I am only just ahead of you as a beginner, but can say so far I have found it worthwhile. Edited October 2, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 May I ask what would be a ball park figure for setting yourself up for reloading please. I have thought about trying it for sometime. Thanks. PM me, I might be able to help you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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