Current advice on doctors fees

[kody]

From current police scotland guidance

GP failure to respond to police letter

6. If the GP does not respond to the Police letter, it cannot be assumed that there are no concerns. This may adversely impact on the applicant and could result in further contact by the applicant and/or by the Police firearms licensing departments because the Police will not have the clinical information they require to complete their checks.

Could be a lot of doctors that are anti shooting and will not respond hence no ticket

It all red tape bull just to chip away at your gun ownership and get backlog down

We will have our guns taken away bit by bit so get real it will happen

Trouble is we do not stick together and we are weak and they ******* know it

[mr smith]

Could be a lot of doctors that are anti shooting and will not respond hence no ticket

It all red tape bull just to chip away at your gun ownership and get backlog down

We will have our guns taken away bit by bit so get real it will happen

Trouble is we do not stick together and we are weak and they ******* know it

 

If the GP feels unable to participate on the basis of a conscientious objection, or for any other reason, they should refer the patient to a colleague or discuss the issue with the firearms officer in the absence of a colleague e.g. single handed GP Practice. If no colleague is willing or available, the GP should inform the Police immediately that they will not be able to complete the form. In the unlikely event that this arises the Police should discuss with the applicant/certificate holder how to obtain adequate medical information. The applicant or certificate holder should not be disadvantaged, nor the application delayed, by a GP’s refusal to provide medical information.

[Pugs]

Happened to me when I questioned Scotland Highland Firearms about the GP Letter, they said they would be unable to continue with my application until I paid the GP fee - £37 if i remember rightly, so yes, they are preventing SGC if you refuse to pay the GP!!

Edited October 12, 2016 by Pugs

[BrowningB525]

Hopefully David will see the posts regarding Scotland.

 

Looks like basc may be having some fun in the future.

[mossy835]

Its all down to getting rid of a lot of guns hoping people will give up and most of all getting the backlog down

 

 

+1

[McSpredder]

..... I did a search and found police scotland's guidance which says without hearing from the GP nothing would be done.....

Do you have a web reference for that?

 

All I could find was a Scottish document dated 29 March 2016 that appears to be exactly in line with what BASC and the other shooting organisations have been saying, and with the Home Office guidelines:

"Initial check of the patient record in response to the standard police letter - there is no expectation of a fee"

"Applicants and certificate holders should not be disadvantaged if their GP does not provide the information needed"

http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/cmo/CMO(2016)07.pdf

 

The document includes the letter and enquiry form being sent to doctors. The GP is asked to add a code to the computerised medical record and put three ticks on a very simple form.

I can only say that it takes me about 20 seconds to insert a marker onto a person's record on my computer database (genealogy information for over 5000 individuals, so quite a lot larger than the average GP's patient list). I find it hard to imagine how a "nothing to report" response from GP to police could involve more than two or three minutes work, unless the medical records were in a totally shambolic state, but maybe somebody who works in a GP practice can offer a different view?

 

It is interesting to see the level of fees being reported on this forum (and contemplate what the hourly rate might be), although it is not always clear whether these involved the "nothing to report" situation.

 

A GP who expresses concerns in the tick box will presumably be asked to provide a more detailed report, and will earn an additional fee.

Edited October 12, 2016 by McSpredder

[mr smith]

That is the guidance I got the quotes from,point 6 bottom of page 6.

[kody]

Jesus Christ hope there is no Americans looking at this they will have a big urine take on this

It really pathetic all this no dam wonder there is a back log really sad

[BrowningB525]

Jesus Christ hope there is no Americans looking at this they will have a big urine take on this

It really pathetic all this no dam wonder there is a back log really sad

I didn't think it could be worse than in England. The SNP managed it. Shameful.

[kody]

Be very afraid thin end of the wedge it will happen all this doctors thing etc an excuse to revokee

Ticket etc

We have basc we sportsman's association and clay pigeons association they need to get together and form one big clout

But it will not happen will it

[BrowningB525]

Be very afraid thin end of the wedge it will happen all this doctors thing etc an excuse to revokee

Ticket etc

We have basc we sportsman's association and clay pigeons association they need to get together and form one big clout

But it will not happen will it

Basc and ca seem to be the only orgs who even try to represent shooters. Edited October 12, 2016 by BrowningB525

[mr smith]

Lifted this from stalking directory

 

this is an official Police response that is floating round the internet, names withheld to protect the incompetent...

 

Dear Mr xxxxxx

 

I understand that you have recently applied for the renewal of your firearm and shotgun certificates but have raised question over the new medical evidence procedures.

 

As you will appreciate, medical evidence forms an important part of the overall assessment of an individual's suitability to be entrusted with guns. On the 1 April 2016, a new national system was introduced to improve information sharing between the Police Service and the Medical Profession. When a person applies for renewal or grant of a firearm and shotgun certificate, the Police now write to their medical practise to establish if that person suffers from any relevant medical issues. A request is also made that a firearm or shotgun reminder code be placed on that persons medical record in case of any future concerns. Police Scotland have no control or responsibility for any fee that a medical practise may or may not choose to charge for this service, albeit I appreciate that this is a contentious subject.

 

If no response or reply is received from the medical practise in respect of the request for information on relevant health conditions, further enquiry will be made with medical practise to establish why. If it transpires that the medical practise are refusing to release the information following dispute over a fee, that becomes a matter for the applicant and the medical practise to resolve.

 

Chapter 10 of the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2016 states that before granting or renewing a firearm certificate, the chief officer of police must be satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/ammunition in their possession without danger to the public safety or to the peace. This is provided under 27(1) of the Firearms Act 1968.

 

Section 28 (1) of the Act makes similar provision in respect of shotguns where a shot gun certificate shall be granted or, as the case may be, renewed by the chief officer of police if he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to possess a shot gun without danger to the public safety or to the peace.

 

In both instances the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that no information exists that would preclude an individual's access to guns. Without confirmation that the individual does not suffer from any relevant health conditions, this satisfaction level cannot be met. In these circumstances the Police Scotland national policy decision is that the firearm or shotgun certificate application will not be routinely granted or renewed but referred to the National Firearms Licensing Unit for final decision and potential refusal.

 

If an individual's firearm or shotgun certificate should be close to expiry, then the onus rests on that individual to make suitable lawful arrangements for the secure storage of their firearms or shotguns prior to that expiry date and to that final decision being made.

 

Where an individual's application for grant or renewal of a firearm or shotgun certificate is refused, they are notified in writing and have opportunity to appeal that decision in the terms contained within Section 44 of the Firearms act 1968 as amended.

 

I hope I have answered your query but if you have any further concerns, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

Mxxx xxxxxxxx

Firearms Licensing Inspector

Divisional HQ

Queen Street

Aberdeen

AB10 1ZA

[Honey Monster]

Hi to all. New to here.

Mr. smith is right.

 

 

Police Scotland are insisting that if they don't hear back from your GP your application/renewal will go no further till they do.

 

 

Exactly they do. I've applied for my SGC (grant) on 29 may 2016. Everything was going OK and quickly. FEO visited me after 2 weeks , checked everything he needed. Told me he is happy . Then they asked my GP and everything stucked. GP refused to give them any details. I've tried to speak with surgery manager and my GP and every time the same answer- they don't want to take responsibility and don't do such opinions/examinations. I went to other surgeries and got the same answers. Anyway my application stuck completely and I have no idea what to do.

I live in Scotland.

[mossy835]

scotland are all ways the ones to try it on, have you spoken to basc,if you are a member.

[mr smith]

Sacs I know have challenged this but basically police scotland don't seem to care.I'm unaware if any other shooting reps are on this or not.

[Bangbangman]

Do you have a web reference for that?All I could find was a Scottish document dated 29 March 2016 that appears to be exactly in line with what BASC and the other shooting organisations have been saying, and with the Home Office guidelines:"Initial check of the patient record in response to the standard police letter - there is no expectation of a fee""Applicants and certificate holders should not be disadvantaged if their GP does not provide the information needed"http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/cmo/CMO(2016)07.pdfThe document includes the letter and enquiry form being sent to doctors. The GP is asked to add a code to the computerised medical record and put three ticks on a very simple form.Image5.gifI can only say that it takes me about 20 seconds to insert a marker onto a person's record on my computer database (genealogy information for over 5000 individuals, so quite a lot larger than the average GP's patient list). I find it hard to imagine how a "nothing to report" response from GP to police could involve more than two or three minutes work, unless the medical records were in a totally shambolic state, but maybe somebody who works in a GP practice can offer a different view?It is interesting to see the level of fees being reported on this forum (and contemplate what the hourly rate might be), although it is not always clear whether these involved the "nothing to report" situation.A GP who expresses concerns in the tick box will presumably be asked to provide a more detailed report, and will earn an additional fee.

The actual time taken to tick the boxes isn't a problem. Getting the records of a patient (who may never have met their GP), reviewing them and then making a judgement (which arguably is more suited to a psychiatrist than a GP) with possible repercussions, all takes time. The first tick box on the form: "do you have concerns about your patient being issued with FAC/Shotgun certificate" might lead many GPs simply to tick "yes" on the basis that they would have concerns about *anybody* having a gun. Remember, very few will have ever shot, but a surprisingly large number will have encountered gunshot trauma in the course of training and electives, or gory forensics lectures at the least. This does not lead Drs to be pro-gun.

 

I'm not a GP but I know primary care is not happy place right now. This FAC issue is not healthcare provision, it is one of the many, many pieces of bureaucracy that add to the workload and contribute to longer waits for appts.

 

The BMA is not the boss of Drs. It can negotiate all it likes but there is nothing binding in agreements it reaches with other organisations.

 

The NHS is dying (being killed, actually) so this is just seems like rearranging chairs on the titanic.

 

Once Virgin health (or one of the other conglomerates) take over, everything will be fine and the fees for this sort of service will drop... oh, wait... no it won't. They will be even more litigation-averse or much more profit-driven. That's what they're in business for.

[Bangbangman]

Could be a lot of doctors that are anti shooting and will not respond hence no ticket

It all red tape bull just to chip away at your gun ownership and get backlog down

We will have our guns taken away bit by bit so get real it will happen

Trouble is we do not stick together and we are weak and they ******* know it

 

Whether it's deliberate or not, you are right.

 

If the GP feels unable to participate on the basis of a conscientious objection, or for any other reason, they should refer the patient to a colleague or discuss the issue with the firearms officer in the absence of a colleague e.g. single handed GP Practice. If no colleague is willing or available, the GP should inform the Police immediately that they will not be able to complete the form. In the unlikely event that this arises the Police should discuss with the applicant/certificate holder how to obtain adequate medical information. The applicant or certificate holder should not be disadvantaged, nor the application delayed, by a GPs refusal to provide medical information.

This is what *should* happen but of those involved in the process, GP,/Police/applicant, only one has any motive for making it work- the applicant.

[norfolk dumpling]

Have I missed something here? FLOs have been writing to our GPs every time we renew/obtain licences so when they get a request now to flag our records why the request for a fee or refusal to do so? I fully accept they are not qualified to comment, in detail, on matters of mental health but if we are on drugs or undergoing counselling etc for any stress related condition or we have been diagnosed by experts with xyz condition under the old system they would have made mention of this. Why are the BMA confusing a system which has worked well for decades? I always assumed my GP knew of my gun ownership and would react accordingly if I turned up with a serious malfunction of my grey matter.

 

SGC renewal early next year - looking forward to what happens!

[CharlieT]

Have I missed something here? FLOs have been writing to our GPs every time we renew/obtain licences so when they get a request now to flag our records why the request for a fee or refusal to do so? I fully accept they are not qualified to comment, in detail, on matters of mental health but if we are on drugs or undergoing counselling etc for any stress related condition or we have been diagnosed by experts with xyz condition under the old system they would have made mention of this. Why are the BMA confusing a system which has worked well for decades? I always assumed my GP knew of my gun ownership and would react accordingly if I turned up with a serious malfunction of my grey matter.

 

SGC renewal early next year - looking forward to what happens!

Firearms Licensing have never in the past, as a matter of routine, made contact with GP's.

 

AS an example, in over 50 years of having a FAC my GP has never been contacted.

[mossy835]

Firearms Licensing have never in the past, as a matter of routine, made contact with GP's.

 

AS an example, in over 50 years of having a FAC my GP has never been contacted.

 

 

+1

[subsonicnat]

JDog thinks the lines are getting Blurred,I think he is Right.

Just looking through the threads one op Quotes £20.00 standard Fee.??.

That is if you are useing the Doctor as a referee,As they do on Passports etc..

That is nothing to do with what was being Discussed on the Scottish Rules..

So,Yes they are all getting tangled up..

[Scully]

Firearms Licensing have never in the past, as a matter of routine, made contact with GP's.

 

AS an example, in over 50 years of having a FAC my GP has never been contacted.

 

This is correct. When you sign your application to give your licensing authority permission to connect your GP, it doesn't necessarily follow that they do. My FEO told me that in the past, ONLY if there is reason to do so, would they contact them.

[armourer103]

havnt the BMA told doctors not to co-operate with this?

[Pugs]

Firearms Licensing have never in the past, as a matter of routine, made contact with GP's.

 

AS an example, in over 50 years of having a FAC my GP has never been contacted.

 

Yes but as from April 2016, that has changed and they are now requesting a GP letter and to update your NHS med records that you are a FAC\SGC holder. Hence, GP are charging us lot for the work they carry out.

[phaedra1106]

I can now access my medical records online, first thing I noticed is it was updated April 16th to "Has firearm certificate", this is listed under "Current Problems"