An Appeal

[mick miller]

A simple infographic that will hopefully clear up some common misunderstandings. Sticky perhaps?

[Zetter]

Nice one Mick it causes hell of a lot of confusion I wanted some bullets for reloading and then got into a discussion about bullet heads and rounds with my RFD to try and get across what I actually needed

[mick miller]

I've found that there is a massive variance in RFDs, some believe that because they sell firearms that they have, by some form of osmosis I guess, absorbed all knowledge about them and they're always right. Generally they haven't and often they aren't. Many others, however, are utterly brilliant, these are the ones that get my business.

[neutron619]

Sticky perhaps?

 

+1.

[Bangbangman]

I agree entirely, Mick. I think the annoying misnomer "bullet head" has gained a foothold because it avoids misunderstandings about "cartridges" (or rounds) versus "bullets". Unfortunately, "head" was already in use.

[mick miller]

But the bullet was always the bullet and the cartridge (or round) was always the whole ensemble. Why add extra, unnecessary, region specific terminology?

 

If I ask for bullets I expect my retailer to know what that is. If I ask for 20 rounds or cartridges I similarly expect complete rounds. I don't expect to be asked if I mean 'heads' as that means nothing to nobody and isn't referenced in any literature anywhere, except to denote a part of the bullet body from the ogive to tip or metplat. Not really required.

 

You really, without exception, do not need to add the word 'head' after the word 'bullet'. It's just a bullet. To use the word 'head' is at best foolish.

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[mick miller]

Maybe I should start calling the cartridge case rim 'the ankle' or the base 'the foot'? What does that make the area outside of the web? The knee or hip?

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Maybe I should start calling the cartridge case rim 'the ankle' or the base 'the foot'? What does that make the area outside of the web? The knee or hip?

 

Perhaps we could add the colour of the item to add to the unneccessary terminology?

 

" Could I please have some of those copper coloured bullet head things".

 

Mick I admire your attempt to get things back to the simple way they used to be and I hope it works.

[walshie]

If I ask for bullets I expect my retailer to know what that is.

 

 

More than likely he will know what that is.

 

But how does he know that you know what that is?

[Kalahari]

The "head stamp" is at the blunt end of the cartridge! QED.

 

David.

[armourer103]

been saying this for years, thought it was just me,

[nagantino]

It pervades all aspects of the media also. To be fair, the like of "bullet head " is an attempt to explain to the uninitiated exactly what your talking about. The use of "clip" instead of "magazine" is my favourite, but crime novels are are full of them. " He slipped the safety catch off his .9mm revolver. "

[armourer103]

even conan doyle says sherlock fires all 6 of his barrals into the wall for entertainment

[mick miller]

I'm trying (very). I made this infographic because at least three people I know have tried to source components, namely bullets, for a relatively awkward caliber (or is it calibre?), the 17 Hornet. After ringing around a couple of very well known stores and specifically asking if they had any 17 vmax bullets in stock they drove for hours to buy some. When they arrived they were presented with cartridges and met the response 'did you want heads?'. Needless to say, the latter were not in stock.

 

When I correct them when they talk about bullet heads (bullets), or heads (bullets), or bullets (cartridges) they quite rightly get upset and point me at the websites of Kranks, Sportsmans, Shell House Bullets, Livens, ITL Shooting Supplies, Simply Firearms and, locally, Stutley Gun.... (all, not coincidentally, UK sites).

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[mick miller]

Perhaps my questioning should be thus:

 

Me: "Do you have any 20gn vmax 17 bullets in stock"

Store: "Yes we do sir"

Me: "Great, are you sure they're bullets"

Store: "Er, yes, quite sure"

Me: "Okay, how much are they for a box of 100"

Store: "So, you want 4 boxes, that's £130"

Me: "£130 for 100 bullets? You're talking about cartridges aren't you?"

Store: "No, bullets"

Me: "I want them for reloading"

Store: "Oh, you want heads! ha"

Me: "No, I want bullets, do you have an email? Let me send you something, have a read, let it sink in for a moment, then call me back please"...

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[spandit]

Language changes over time. Get over it.

 

Once the ongoing legislation to change the status of expanding ammunition goes ahead (as detailed in various threads on here and other forums) then we can just buy these by mail order and stop worrying about terminology.

[daveboy]

As above,The price would give it away.

Would you drive for hours without asking the price before you set off ? (From a tight Yorkshire man)

[mick miller]

Both wrong.

 

The language hasn't changed, it's just some people don't seem to grasp it (hard of thinking?).

 

If you call and ask for bullets, then you should expect bullets. My hypothetical telephone call is just that, hypothetical. I don't and didn't experience these problems as I shop with an RFD that knows one end of a gun from another and wouldn't be just as happy selling widgets. Many others don't have that luxury.

 

Its really quite simple, see the first post. Once you are able able to grasp the painfully simple (and correct) principle that the entire assembly is NOT called a BULLET then no further words needs to be added before or after. Then, when I ask for a BULLET I know and everyone else knows what I'm talking about.

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[mick miller]

Yeah, maybe you're right. Anyhow, I was thinking of getting into shotgun reloading as well. Anyone know where I can buy some BB heads?

[Dave-G]

A simple infographic that will hopefully clear up some common misunderstandings. Sticky perhaps?

I suspect it because so much internet shooting traffic is from America who have different terms than we use.

 

Don't get tempted to google 'bullet' and 'bullet head' images 'cos you'll possibly have a heart attack.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Dave-G

[mick miller]

^{Wrong Dave, the Americans (as with the rest of the world) use bullets to describe ummm, bullets. Bullet 'heads' is a uniquely British cock-and-balls-up. It's not negotiable, or subject to debate or analysis. It is what it is.}

 

^{I suspect, more likely, most of the proponents of the combination 'bullet' and 'head' have either never read a reloading manual or, if they have, have a remarkable ability to understand very little of what they've read. Find me a manual or diagram of any repute, anywhere on earth, that lists the combination of parts of a pistol or rifle cartridge as a 'bullet' and the bullet as a 'bullet head'.}

 

^{I'll not hold my breath.}

 

^{EDIT: what 'different terms' when it comes to component parts are you referring to by the way? Any examples?}

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[Dave-G]

^{Wrong Dave, the Americans (as with the rest of the world) use bullets to describe ummm, bullets. Bullet 'heads' is a uniquely British cock-and-balls-up. It's not negotiable, or subject to debate or analysis. It is what it is.}

 

^{I suspect, more likely, most of the proponents of the combination 'bullet' and 'head' have either never read a reloading manual or, if they have, have a remarkable ability to understand very little of what they've read. Find me a manual or diagram of any repute, anywhere on earth, that lists the combination of parts of a pistol or rifle cartridge as a 'bullet' and the bullet as a 'bullet head'.}

 

^{I'll not hold my breath.}

 

^{EDIT: what 'different terms' when it comes to component parts are you referring to by the way? Any examples?}

Best Google > bullets < and check the image results -then do the same with > bullet heads <

 

I'd guess there are many more people who say and see things differently than us uppity lot.

[mick miller]

Good God. No, the errors of a few doesn't make something correct. What the hell does an image search prove? Other than image libraries label thing incorrectly (shock horror) or that many UK gun shops don't seem to grasp to what the term bullet refers.

 

"Find me a manual or diagram of any repute, anywhere on earth, that lists the combination of parts of a pistol or rifle cartridge as a 'bullet' and the bullet as a 'bullet head'."

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller

[walshie]

Just because a lot of people use the wrong terminology doesn't make it right.

 

It does my bullet in.

[mick miller]

Me too, I'll bite the head on this one, time to bring this debate to a bullet. Any links to some BB heads for my shotgun tubes please peeps?

Edited November 22, 2016 by mick miller