Jaymo Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) lewis has strops but played the last race tactically. Nico had a tendency to park his car in some odd places such as Monaco! Edited December 4, 2016 by Jaymo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 lewis has strops but played the last race tactically. Nico had a tendency to park his car in some odd places such as Monaco! Schumacher did the same years ago but in a more silly place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 Yes Shaun Remember it well, at Rascasse-- still believe he was a great driver, skill , mastery and a tactician of great proportions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonker Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) AVB, I raced Karts for 20 odd years in this country, and abroad in team races of anything up to 24 hours. I drove at the Le mans kart track once but finance even in karting killed us ordinary blokes. What I was trying to say was that I always drove last as it was considered that if there was a place or two to make up in my two hour stint I would make it (by fair means or foul) not that that is anything to brag about. They considered me to be a racer, meaning I was prepared to take a risk and put my kart where it shouldn't be to take a place, Verstappen showed this brilliantly in Brazil. But as an out and out driver I was only average in my class. I'll stop here because although I know what I mean, I'm not getting it across very well, something to do with being old and thick I expect. Anyone can be the fastest driver if they have the fastest car, a good driver makes a bad car look middling to good. Edited December 4, 2016 by tonker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandladdie Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 the thousands of people who booed him while he was on the podium Monumental bad form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) Monumental bad form. One keeps hearing/reading how he got lucky and one keeps feeling smug that one understands F1 better than to call anyone lucky for winning a title over the course of a whole season, not just one race. Rosberg BEAT Hamilton, he won 9 races to his 10 and outraced him enough times to score MORE points. He also drove a stunningly controlled and composed final race particularly in the closing stages. He wrestled the F1 title from a top 4 driver, unlike Schumacher, Vettell, Alonso, etc etc. By that broad brush of uninformed reasoning every single football match ever won on penalties must have been lucky, you know, lucky cos the goal keeper would have saved it if he'd dived the other way or had the £5 mil striker not sent it over the bar the other team wouldn't have won ! You could even call a regular 1-0 win as luck because some goals just kinda sneak in without any detectable skill being involved. But of course I don't say such silly things because I understand the scoring system for football. You score more points you win. Edited December 4, 2016 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Callahan Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 Rosberg fully deserves to be world champion. Undoubtedly the best driver this season. Luck never came into it - Hamilton was lucky to be able to take it to the final race. Hamilton is not one of the greatest. We have entered an era where one team/manufacturer completely dominates for 3, 4, 5 seasons - look at Red Bull and Vettel... Look at the negative comments above about Rosberg, yet he is now the World Champion, well the same carp works for Vettel and Hamilton too. The last Great world Champion was Alonso, taking a decent car and beating the best! Twice. If Hamilton can ever do something like that, then he could be considered 'great'. Sir Jackie Stewarts opinion of the boy is very accurate. As for the vacant seat at Mercedes. Alonso will be the front runner. Wolf said very early on this season if a seat ever became vacant he would do all he could to get Alonso. And, like when he left Ferrari - if Fernando wants to go, he will make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think we are all forgetting one thing. Hamilton is British, Rosberg is German. Therefore Hamilton is better. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think we are all forgetting one thing. Hamilton is British, Rosberg is German. Therefore Hamilton is better. Simple. I think you're forgetting one thing. Hamilton is a ****, Rosberg is not. Therefore Rosberg is better. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think you're forgetting one thing. Hamilton is a ****, Rosberg is not. Therefore Rosberg is better. Simple. Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I really don't see how anyone can rate button high. He was a 'survivor', and spent his whole career hopping to land on a car that was better than anything else, and luck has it, it worked ONCE (well half a season). The rest of the time, he was 12th or so, 'hopping for the rain', trying for the nTh time to do a 'one stopper' or more interestingly landblasting hamilton to have switched team at a time that just happened to have been the *perfect* time. All the while, trying to continue milking it for another year. Nice bloke, sure enough, but worth any comparison with top class? Seriously? I'm not fond of Hamilton's behaviour in general, but he's a kid of his age, he's living it, he has *spare capacity* to party AND also drives magic races on occasion. he's still managed to reach Senna's and Prost's record level, and he still had to fight for it, unlike the likes of Vettel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 AVB, I raced Karts for 20 odd years in this country, and abroad in team races of anything up to 24 hours. I drove at the Le mans kart track once but finance even in karting killed us ordinary blokes. What I was trying to say was that I always drove last as it was considered that if there was a place or two to make up in my two hour stint I would make it (by fair means or foul) not that that is anything to brag about. They considered me to be a racer, meaning I was prepared to take a risk and put my kart where it shouldn't be to take a place, Verstappen showed this brilliantly in Brazil. But as an out and out driver I was only average in my class. I'll stop here because although I know what I mean, I'm not getting it across very well, something to do with being old and thick I expect. Anyone can be the fastest driver if they have the fastest car, a good driver makes a bad car look middling to good. I raced Karts also although not for 20 years and also a short stint in Formula Ford. In endurance racing then yes a reliable driver is valued to get the car around at a consistent pace but for sprint racing out and out pace is essential. It is said that driving in the wet evens out car performance and brings the best drivers to the front. Hamilton is out on his own in the wet whilst Rosberg potters around mid pack. Button also is good in the wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I really don't see how anyone can rate button high. He was a 'survivor', and spent his whole career hopping to land on a car that was better than anything else, and luck has it, it worked ONCE (well half a season). The rest of the time, he was 12th or so, 'hopping for the rain', trying for the nTh time to do a 'one stopper' or more interestingly landblasting hamilton to have switched team at a time that just happened to have been the *perfect* time. All the while, trying to continue milking it for another year. Nice bloke, sure enough, but worth any comparison with top class? Seriously? I'm not fond of Hamilton's behaviour in general, but he's a kid of his age, he's living it, he has *spare capacity* to party AND also drives magic races on occasion. he's still managed to reach Senna's and Prost's record level, and he still had to fight for it, unlike the likes of Vettel. I agree with you almost completely, my natural tendency is to support British drivers but not at the expense of ignoring stats and I don't even think Button came across as a nice bloke because he invariably made for an uncomfortable interview and had somewhat of a terse turn of phrase unless he had either just won or made pole. He always seemed to make an effort to make the interviewer's question seem ill judged and uninformed. Yes of course he had good points like his smoothness which saved tyres but hey give me a man with blurry hands in corners if he saves .3 seconds. I also agree that Hamilton's character generally lacks that likeable something, he seems unable to reign in his ego but on the actual racing side I have no trouble with his ruthlessness or mind games, top level sport is not for pussies. I think in identical cars he would blow Vettell away in both qualifying and race craft but I genuinely believe he'd need every ounce of his game to keep it together against Alonso. I used to say Schumacher is a man racing against boys (and I was no fan of his) but today I think Alonso could almost lay the same claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 Wrong. right. (just to be childish!) I won't support someone solely because of their nationality though - it makes for too many uncomfortable role model choices. I can't, with the best will in the world, say to young people 'look at hamilton, that's the kind of man you should try and be'. He even had a pretty cheap passing shot at Rosberg when he retired. Rosberg by contrast was fully prepared to give Hamilton the credit for being 'one of the greats' and has conducted himself with a lot of class, throughout a tough season. He's never snapped and demanded more credit, despite winning a shed load of races. He gets booed on the podium for having the temerity to beat hamilton over a season - but doesn't even mention it. And then he quits because he wants to have a real family life and give his daughter a real father figure. I fully admit Hamilton is a better driver than Nico. Do I want him to win? nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 I think in identical cars he would blow Vettell away in both qualifying and race craft but I genuinely believe he'd need every ounce of his game to keep it together against Alonso. As a previous post I made, in identical cars the only comparison we have is F1 driver in a reasonably priced car, Yes he blew Vettel away BUT Ricciardo beat Hamilton by half a second which in F1 times is huge I totally agree with this but I really hope they get someone with the experience of Alonso/Ricciardo/Vettel or even Verstappen, I believe at least 3 of them would be at least as good or even better than Hamilton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 As a previous post I made, in identical cars the only comparison we have is F1 driver in a reasonably priced car, Yes he blew Vettel away BUT Ricciardo beat Hamilton by half a second which in F1 times is huge I totally agree with this but I really hope they get someone with the experience of Alonso/Ricciardo/Vettel or even Verstappen, I believe at least 3 of them would be at least as good or even better than Hamilton To me being in the same race cars is as good as identical, true there are situations such as when Michael Schumacher had demanded first refusal on all new developments or option on preferred tactics etc, etc, but essentially if you're any good you will shine through in a very short space of time and then the team has no choice but to take you as seriously as the other half of the garage or risk losing you to a rival poaching coup. In all seriousness the Top Gear reasonably priced car thing is a bit of a laugh, in no way can you guarantee equity of equipment from day to day or in this case month or even year to year. Those cars not only ran on vastly different track conditions from day to day but also had to ignore such obvious things as optimum tyre conditions, the engine alone would have been as good as wrecked (in detectable racing terms) after three or four runs. We have no idea for example what the sweet spot of those street tyres are, do they produce their best lap when new or when part worn, perhaps even when the tread is all but gone (so long as you turn up on a dry day) I used to think 80% worn tyres were good for grip in the dry until I bought a used old shape C reg MR2 which tailed out like a good 'un until I stuck a full set of new shoes on it and it then simply could not be made to misbehave without near suicidal intent. Drivers' weights too can be a huge advantage/disadvantage hence why all cars have to weight 600 kilos including driver and also why drivers starve themselves to stay super slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 it would be really good to see if rosberg changed his mind and drove for one of the cash poor teams....he hasnt anything to prove...and he might enjoy himself for a change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I am impressed that what is now such a dull from of Motorsport can still generate this much enthusiasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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