Bought nylon shooting accessories from the US, now Police want to talk

[blackfriar]

Hi there!

I wonder if anyone with some legal knowledge can help me out.


I purchased a "12ga Micro Rig" and some shell holders from a custom nylon gear company in the states. It is a Cordura nylon shotgun shell holder vest thing, along with a few shotgun shell "cards" which are rectangular 6 shell holders which you can attach velcro to and attach/remove from the stock or receiver. I really want to get into Practical Shotgun (sport target shooting) as it looks like awesome fun!

I have ordered and paid for bits of nylon and velcro from the US and they have been held up at UK customs in Coventry for nearly a month now. None of the goods are controlled and I certainly have not broken any laws by importing them.
I've made a few attempts to contact Parcelforce about the delay and have been met with an answer of "Sorry, it's out of our hands!".

Yesterday, mid morning, two plain clothes gentlemen knocked on my flat door while I was at work.
Girlfriend was in.
They did not introduce themselves, nor did they show any identification/collar numbers.
They had what looked like an A4 print-out, and it appeared to have bullet-points or small images on it.

One of them asked for me by name, then asked for my mobile number (which she gave).

The GF noticed they both had "cheap, tacky looking" dark nylon wallet-like things on their chest (no lanyards) with "POLICE" on the front in big bold letters.

My GF said to me they looked like something you'd buy from Ebay and it made her suspicious at the time.
They said thanks, bye and cleared off.

I have received no contact from "them" since.
I called Police Scotland on 101 and the cops ran a check against my name and address and found nothing against my details, nor did they have any history of the visit.

After waiting at home ALL DAY for a visit from uniformed police which never happened I was starting to feel pretty confused However, I received a call from a female police operator this yesterday evening who said she can confirm "they" were indeed genuine police officers at the door and said they were from Police Scotland Border Patrol.

It seems this branch of the police is engaged in counter-terrorism and fighting organised crime amongst other things.
She said they would be in touch for a chat with me tomorrow, but as of yet, nobody has called or appeared at my address. I called 101 this evening to verify everything and they confirmed it to be genuine.

Now, I have nothing to hide but the goods I ordered are not illegal to own or import, and I have paid for them so I believe I should receive them without further delay.

Simultaneously, I do not want to go about this the wrong way and prolong this matter.
If you were in my position, what would you say/do in order to get this cleared up ASAP with minimal fuss. Would you invite police, in this situation, in your home or ask to go to a local Police Station? Are any of my rights being infringed?

Just to clarify - I do not currently belong to any shooting clubs, nor do I shoot. I do not have any kind of firearms license. I purchased the 12ga Micro Rig, directly from the US, as the company was running a time limited sale with a significant discount. I have wanted to get into Practical Shotgun for years and years. Now I have relocated/have slightly more disposable income, I'm in a position to think about going ahead and get involved with the hobby. I had envisioned buying a gun safe, joining a club and eventually applying for a licence/buy a gun in 2017... if all goes well.

Cheers folks!

Here's a link to the thing we are talking about: https://www.original.../12ga-micro-rig

[A.J.P.]

According to the information above you've done absolutely nothing wrong. I'm certain that the security services are looking at this from the perspective of the threat from a "lone wolf"/"active shooter" and want to cross you off their list. Frustrating, and an invasion of your privacy - but a symptom of the times I'm afraid. My advice would be to meet with them (wherever you wish) and clear things up.

 

P.S. I doubt that the U.K.P.S.A. would look kindly on the set-up you've purchased - regardless of its potential utility. They've published guidelines in the past regarding the use of chest rigs and the like. I'm not sure what the N.R.A.s take would be. It'd certainly not be the best choice for competition if you're planning to be quick with your reloads.

Edited December 8, 2016 by A.J.P.

[Lord v]

 

Just to clarify - I do not currently belong to any shooting clubs, nor do I shoot. I do not have any kind of firearms license. I purchased the 12ga Micro Rig, directly from the US, as the company was running a time limited sale with a significant discount. I have wanted to get into Practical Shotgun for years and years. Now I have relocated/have slightly more disposable income, I'm in a position to think about going ahead and get involved with the hobby. I had envisioned buying a gun safe, joining a club and eventually applying for a licence/buy a gun in 2017... if all goes well.

 

Cheers folks!

Here's a link to the thing we are talking about: https://www.original.../12ga-micro-rig

I think you may have been unlucky. But given your last paragraph I can see why someone may have some questions. Though why a visit is necessary I have no idea, a phone call would seem a logical first step.

 

It also depends how it was listed on the customs declaration and/or if they put any nice free gifts in the package that may or may not be legal in this country as to the level of interest that may be generated.

 

Out of interest- have you been on the police radar before? If you have, even historically that may peak their interest even more.

 

While you have no obligation to allow the police in unless they have a warrant, it would not hurt to be considered coperative.

[kennett]

Although legally I doubt you have done anything wrong, I can sort of see their reasoning. Why would a non Sgc holder want a 12g fast loading system, as said they are considering the lone gun man angle, especially as the terror level is so elevated

[CharlieT]

Legal or not, quite why anyone other than a wannabe Rambo would want one is quite beyond me.

 

Thank goodness the police follow up and interview people who buy such things.

[mossy835]

as above right on the button.

[A.J.P.]

Legal or not, quite why anyone other than a wannabe Rambo would want one is quite beyond me.

 

 

as above right on the button.

 

Different strokes for different folks guys. A set-up such as this could easily have (some) utility in the various target shotgun competitions run by the N.R.A.

Edited December 8, 2016 by A.J.P.

[blackfriar]

Thanks all for the comments and advice so far.

 

A.J.P. - thanks for the advice. I have seen PSG competitors using waist-belt shell holders, so I assumed (maybe wrongly) that a chest mounted shell holder, with greater capacity, would be a faster and safer alternative. Faster because the hand would have less distance to travel from the receiver of the gun, and safer because of less time time fumbling for shells under tight time constraints. Thanks for letting me know. I'll look into this.

 

Lord v - yes, the company's promotion included some mystery free gifts in the box. I got in touch with them yesterday, and although they couldn't confirm the exact contents they said it would have been something akin to a novelty toy and/or stickers/velcro patches.

 

kennett - yes, I can certainly see why they would want to investigate this angle and I have no problem with it.

 

CharlieT - I too am thankful for the difficult work the Police undertake to keep us safe, but the name calling isn't called for.

[A.J.P.]

A.J.P. - thanks for the advice. I have seen PSG competitors using waist-belt shell holders, so I assumed (maybe wrongly) that a chest mounted shell holder, with greater capacity, would be a faster and safer alternative. Faster because the hand would have less distance to travel from the receiver of the gun, and safer because of less time time fumbling for shells under tight time constraints. Thanks for letting me know. I'll look into this.

 

If you're after advice from people who actively compete in Practical Shotgun your best bet would be to join the four4islands forum ( http://four4islands.org/forum/ ) and the Practical Shotgun UK ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/1542732236015239/?ref=bookmarks ) Facebook group, and ask some questions regarding kit. Perhaps run a search first - you won't be the first person ever who's new to the discipline!

Edited December 8, 2016 by A.J.P.

[fortune]

I really want to get into Practical Shotgun (sport target shooting) as it looks like awesome fun!

 

.

I've made a few attempts to contact Parcelforce about the delay and have been met with an answer of "Sorry, it's out of our hands!".

Yesterday, mid morning, two plain clothes gentlemen knocked on my flat door while I was at work.

Girlfriend was in.

 

 

.

 

It seems this branch of the police is engaged in counter-terrorism and fighting organised crime amongst other things.

She said they would be in touch for a chat with me tomorrow, but as of yet, nobody has called or appeared at my address. I called 101 this evening to verify everything and they confirmed it to be genuine.

 

 

Just to clarify - I do not currently belong to any shooting clubs, nor do I shoot. I do not have any kind of firearms license. I purchased the 12ga Micro Rig, directly from the US, as the company was running a time limited sale with a significant discount. I have wanted to get into Practical Shotgun for years and years. Now I have relocated/have slightly more disposable income, I'm in a position to think about going ahead and get involved with the hobby. I had envisioned buying a gun safe, joining a club and eventually applying for a licence/buy a gun in 2017... if all goes well.

 

Cheers folks!

Here's a link to the thing we are talking about: https://www.original.../12ga-micro-rig

I have read through all of the above and it all seems pretty innocent on the face of it but very naive in a different angle. These items will have flagged up on the system and seeing as you aren't in the firearms cert system the question is why would a member of the public want with stuff like this? >>> You are a terrorist!!!

Apart from the fact that the stuff was cheap why buy any old bit of kit for something that you aren't into and doing? It seems like you are going about it all back to front. It's like going to the vicar and booking up the church for a wedding and you ain't even got a partner. In the current situation of the terrorism threat facing us it shows that they are on the ball and the only thing that is a bit odd is the fact that they have shown their hand of interest in you without either delivering the stuff and covertly monitoring you or coming straight down and wheeling you in to explain yourself. Something I did notice on the logo of the item in the link is the wording at the bottom. Real Red neck Ralph stuff. Interested in how this pans out.

 

PS just read some of the above posts. Again although practical shotgun is there If I were trying to protect against an attack on the public as in France I would be looking at stuff like this as a potential risk area.

Edited December 8, 2016 by fortune

[Oldfesta]

I totally agree with the coment that this is a bit "wannabe Rambo" , kit like that has absolutely no purpose in the general shooting fraternity, I wouldn't turn up on my pheasant shoot with it strapped to my chest lol 😂 it was designed for military or pollice use !! And so the pollice have every wright to be suspicious !!! I would re-evaluate the shotgun application, as now you flagged up without a certificate, you might not find it so simple to gain one 🤔

[blackfriar]

fortune, yes, the company makes very good stuff but their marketing is very macho. Again, not to sound pedantic but ******* and jeffing isn't illegal - yet! I did actually have a concern about this, and asked their customer service what, if any, controversial language or text may have been included on the invoice/etc. They said it would have just showed the total cost and what I purchased.

 

I'm happy to keep this thread updated if it helps people out in future.

[A.J.P.]

I would re-evaluate the shotgun application, as now you flagged up without a certificate, you might not find it so simple to gain one

 

Are you being serious? If so - that's completely without merit. If not, I apologise in advance for not picking up on your sarcasm.

 

I'm happy to keep this thread updated if it helps people out in future.

 

I for one would be interested. I recommend you do a little more research into the disciplines that might interest you, get involved in your local club - or the nearest that offers what you're looking for, and then apply for coterminous shotgun and firearms certificates. I hope you enjoy your shooting.

Edited December 8, 2016 by A.J.P.

[Walker570]

If they have put that paperwork in with the order I can see why you have had a visit. What I am surprised about is that it wasn't at 4am in the morning. With present stress levels with likely terrorist attacks, I do believe the police force is going soft. I do believe you got off lightly, in my day you might just had needed a new front door.

You have paid for that vest and it is yours, so unless they can prove criminal intent then you should be entitled to delivery. A further friendly, gentle call to the lady you spoke with might be a good idea outlining how you can now see how they would be concerned but it had not crossed your mind when you ordered it. ......... "cap in hand"

Edited December 8, 2016 by Walker570

[fortune]

I understand your ideas behind ordering this stuff and it isn't illegal or anything but surely with a big world wide market this stuff comes along every day from various sources and it would have been more sense to find a club and find out what it was all about and get into it from the other end rather than buying any old stuff cos it was cheap. That said I don't quite understand the actions of the police. If you were a nutter/lone wolf/terrorist is it odd that they have alerted you to the fact that you are under observation. If and when the plod come to see you just say it as it is. You have done nothing wrong and although the stuff is a bit Ralph, so what. I would say that the plod want investigating as to the way that they have dealt with this. They have shown their hand and if you were a danger to the public you would have either submerged or moved the stuff, or gone out and done the deed. All a bit amature.

"It seems this branch of the police is engaged in counter-terrorism and fighting organised crime amongst other things". Is that right? The crime must be pretty unorganised or non get caught. Still I suppose that would mean that a bit of paperwork would have to be done.

[Walker570]

plus 1 hence my front door remark

[fortune]

I don't necessarily think that you have to go down there and blow the door off ala Michael Caine. The system doesn't have the funds to keep compensating people for replacement ones when they bought the stuff for a theatrical production down the local amature dramatics society But if he was a wrong un he wouldn't be there to find or monitor. Top marks for identifying a potential risk. Nil point for fieldwork.

PS. your nothing to do with Burnley Dave are you?

[bruno22rf]

If this gear makes him a wannabe Rambo are all camo wearers wannabe GI Joes? If it's not illegal and permitted in his particular chosen sport then what's the problem?

[Vince Green]

Just tell them you are thinking of importing them and selling them on ebay. I'm sure the practical shotgun boys would buy them

[fortune]

Why lie and make up a story? The OP hasn't done anything wrong and it isn't a banned or prohibited item. Just say it like it is. he is thinking of taking up the sport and saw the item for sale cheap.

[blackfriar]

One of the plain clothes officers, who originally knocked our door, called tonight at around 10pm. I assumed the timing of the call was intentional.

 

They were thoroughly pleasant and polite, and plainly told me the call was to find out if I knew about the contents of the package from the USA. They explained the nature of the contents had alerted the authorities and asked if I was free for chat in person next week. I explained my motivations and told them about my desire to get involved with "Practical Shotgun". I explained I was not currently a shooter, nor was I a club member/license holder but had bought the stuff during a good sale and in anticipation of starting a new hobby.

 

Anyway, they said they were satisfied with me and I sounded reasonable. They would have a word with the customs control, and my goods should be released. I politely emphasised my desire to receive my property as the cost was not insignificant. They agreed.

 

I have no idea if they will actually want to meet with me next week, but we have provisionally arranged a date. I assume they will.

 

How do airsofters manage to buy head-to-toe Delta Force outfits, including body armour, night vision and working comms?!

[HDAV]

Having had a look at the website it all seems a bit "Blue oyster bar" all those lovely badges about "enjoy combat cock" pictures of erect male organs $100 dog collar and leash...... Very fruity indeed...

https://www.originalsoegear.com/products/enjoy-combat-cock-patch

https://www.originalsoegear.com/collections/patches-stickers/products/eat-a-****-tech-pvc-patch-coaster

https://www.originalsoegear.com/collections/k9/products/1-75-d-ring-cobra-dog-collar-w-handle

https://www.originalsoegear.com/collections/combat-cock/products/original-s-o-e-combat-cock-hoodie

 

What I find really odd is that you joined "Pigeon Watch" to specifically ask this question ?!?!? Surely there must be far better places to get info on PSG if that is your intention? And the legalities of importing para military gear from the US!

 

I would too suggest that this incident may leave an unsightly mark on your record when you do come to apply in future, how you handle the interaction may well have long reaching consequences......

[blackfriar]

HDAV, this conversation is going in a very odd direction. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but carry on by all means!

 

I'll update the thread as I receive more news. Thanks to all.

[fortune]

I would too suggest that this incident may leave an unsightly mark on your record when you do come to apply in future, how you handle the interaction may well have long reaching consequences......

I dont see why it should leave an unsightly mark on his record. OK it will be noted but he hasn't broken any rules or law. If he is serious about this sort of shooting then the first thing is to join a club and do the probationary club time and get to know the people at the club because they will be asked about him if he applies and their opinions of him if he applies. We have had this happen at our rifle club. practical shooting is currently the second most popular international target shooting discipline but Practical shooting doesnt interest me but then Me wandering around fields in the dark on my own doesn't interest others. the only difference is that there is the terrorist angle in this of someone training to shoot person type defensive scenario targets. it's like training to be an urban terrorist and thats the angle of threat to the public. The plod will throw questions like >> Why do you want to take up shooting human type targets like an army assault course? Where are you going to do this? what clubs have you enquired about Ect Ect But the imported item is just an item like a bag or anything. you dont have to have a reason to want it. it would be like importing a bucket. WHY, because I want to have one and I like that bucket.

That stuff on that site is for a load of red necked Ralphs with one cell. Coffee mug for mugs $20 === https://www.originalsoegear.com/collections/combat-cock/products/o-s-o-e-combat-cock-coffee-mug

Edited December 9, 2016 by fortune

[deershooter]

Right I have ordered some condoms where do I get the girls from ?