Black Powder

[Twistedsanity]

i was just oiling my guns as they havent been used for a while and noticed my old hammer gun has nitro and in addition BP markings on the barrel, am i right in assuming this means i can use it for black powder? if so what would i need or need to buy to do so? or any pointers as to where i would go to find this out would be appreciated thanks

[Velocette]

I think it just means that it was originally proofed for Black powder,,then at a later date proofed for Nitro powders at a correspondingly higher pressure than the earlier proof test. You can use either but check the chamber size as its likely to be 2 1/2" or 65mm rather than the more recent 2 3/4" chambers.

[Twistedsanity]

thanks, does the chamber size have an effect on using black powder? ive used it before with normal cartriges

[ditchman]

I think it just means that it was originally proofed for Black powder,,then at a later date proofed for Nitro powders at a correspondingly higher pressure than the earlier proof test. You can use either but check the chamber size as its likely to be 2 1/2" or 65mm rather than the more recent 2 3/4" chambers.

 

 

this....

[bruno22rf]

If it was proofed originally for BP then, as said, the chambers are likely to be 2 1/2" - keep using standard 70mm cartridges and you are likely to end up blowing the barrels up or your face off. If you want to use BP cartridges then justcartridges, I believe, bought the last ever commercially made ones and sell them at around £25/box. You could load your own with Pyrodex which is a BP substitute that you do not need a licence to buy and store as is the case with BP. There's a thread on the reloading section about 65mm cartridges started by Captain Beaky that may include some useful information.

[old'un]

If you use 2 3/4" nitro cartridges in a 2 1/2" chambered gun you could possibly do your gun and yourself some damage, the longer cartridge would increase the pressure at the breech/chamber cone, if you do not have a chamber gauge just use a piece of doweling, push it down until it stops and mark it with a pencil then measure the length.

 

As Velocette and bruno22rf have said, given the age of the gun its more than likely chambered for 2 1/2" cartridges.

[Twistedsanity]

Jesus I'm glad I have only used it a few times now! Without looking I'm.pretty sure it says 2 1/2 inches so can I buy cartridges for it that won't mean I'm.risking blowing my face off? I got it from fredrick.Beasleys a.few.years back.and he didn't mention anything about being cartridge specific when I got it. That might go a small way to explain why it broke the top rib near the Chambers, Even more worrying that Beasleys repaired it under warranty and moaned about the cost of having it re-blued but didn't ask what cartridges I used in it or suspect that could have any bearing on the matter

[Smokersmith]

It's your responsibility to make sure you're using the right shells.

[Wb123]

Would you have put a 3.5 inch goose blaster cartridge in it?

 

The chamber length should be clearly marked.

[old'un]

Jesus I'm glad I have only used it a few times now! Without looking I'm.pretty sure it says 2 1/2 inches so can I buy cartridges for it that won't mean I'm.risking blowing my face off? I got it from fredrick.Beasleys a.few.years back.and he didn't mention anything about being cartridge specific when I got it. That might go a small way to explain why it broke the top rib near the Chambers, Even more worrying that Beasleys repaired it under warranty and moaned about the cost of having it re-blued but didn't ask what cartridges I used in it or suspect that could have any bearing on the matter

Yes plenty of 2 1/2" cartridges on the market but they do tend to cost more than 2 3/4", if I was you I would not put anything heaver than 1 1/16 through it, you will find it will more than likely shoot better with lighter loads.

 

I guess the gun shop thought you would look at what cartridges you could put through it.

Would you have put a 3.5 inch goose blaster cartridge in it?

 

The chamber length should be clearly marked.

[Twistedsanity]

Unfortunately using the correct cartridges isn't explained when you get your sgc and nobody has ever mentioned it, I'm.not suggesting it's not my responsibility but if nobody tells you and you have never read about it how would you know? I've read plenty of books and shooting mags but never seen it mentioned or I wouldn't have done it

Yes plenty of 2 1/2" cartridges on the market but they do tend to cost more than 2 3/4", if I was you I would not put anything heaver than 1 1/16 through it, you will find it will more than likely shoot better with lighter loads.

 

I guess the gun shop thought you would look at what cartridges you could put through it.

Thanks

[old'un]

Glad we could help

 

You made me smile with your last post, some years ago I knew the old farmer and when ever I popped-in he was always down the cowshed looking at his girls, there was an old BSA boxlock lent against the wall behind the door. It was covered in cow dung and rusty as hell, I asked what he used it for and he said the bloody crows, I asked if it was ok to look at the gun, he said fine, when I picked it up and opened it there where two live shells in the chambers, pulling the cartridges out I could not believe what he had in the gun, two 2 3/4" 3 shot high velocity cartridges and the gun was 2 1/2 chambered!

I told him about the dangers, but he just said "well that's all that was in the kitchen cupboard" so I gave him a box of my cartridges and changed the ones in the gun, I guess ignorance is bliss until something goes wrong.

Edited December 17, 2016 by old'un

[Twistedsanity]

I was indeed blissfully ignorant! I suppose it's a bit like passing your driving test after all that time but they never show you where the oil or petrol goes in, you find out when someone else tells you or you run out. The Mrs has been driving for 16 years and gave me a proper blank look last week when i asked her to put some water in the washers 😂

[CaptainBeaky]

Lots of 2.5" cartridges around - also known as 65mm or 67mm. I find they are frequently cheaper than 2.75"/70mm, especially with light loads - see the recent thread in the Reloading sub forum regarding Hull Comp X

[Velocette]

I've recently started using 65mm Hull Imperial Game 26g and 28g in my hammer gun. They are a little pricy but for the few I'll use the soft shooting nature of them compensates.

[Twistedsanity]

I only got it as a novelty really and only ever shoot clays so paying a little extra for carts isn't an issue, to be fair I've only put a box of 28g 12's through it since I got it two years ago, thanks for all the advice peoples

[ChrisPCarter]

A lot of guns have their chambers increased to 2.75" when they are proofed for nitro so check what you've got.

I spoke to Just Cartridges about their Gamebore black powder cartridges and rumours that they had the last ones and they said Gamebore only do a run of them once a year so yes they bought up all the stock but they will be making more at some point.

They are currently £29 a box though!

Have a look at the Fiocchi range they do a lot of 2.5" cartridges at a very good price. Their Sporting Pigeon, PL28, PL30, I use their PL32 32g 5 as a great all round cartridge and their top Golden Pheasant game ones are fantastic and all 2.5"

[ChrisPCarter]

I only got it as a novelty really and only ever shoot clays so paying a little extra for carts isn't an issue, to be fair I've only put a box of 28g 12's through it since I got it two years ago, thanks for all the advice peoples

Just read you only shoot clays as 2.5" is really only used for older game guns now so the clay options are more limited.

Fiocchi do their budget TT1 in 2.5" though, can't think of many other brands that do. Maybe Hull Comp X?

[CaptainBeaky]

TT1 are 65 mm, as are Hull CompX.

[ChrisPCarter]

65/67mm suitable for 2.5" chambers.

[Twistedsanity]

I'll pop her out and measure the Chambers this morning although at £25 a box for blackpowder would I be right in assuming it's a lot cheaper to DIY?

[old'un]

Can I ask why you want to use black powder shells?

[JohnfromUK]

Hull Comp X in various loads (between 21g and 28g) are an excellent (and inexpensive) clays cartridge and suitable for old guns (must be nitro proof of course) and 2 1/2" chambers. I have several old guns, so tend to only keep 2 1/2" in the house (to avoid any mishaps). Current favourites are Hull's Comp X 21g for clays and Hull's Imperial Game - for game (current using 26g version). The problem area is 'non toxic' loads where I don't think any are available in 2 1/2". Here I do use 2 3/4" (bismuth), in a 2 3/4" chambered AyA.

[Twistedsanity]

Can I ask why you want to use black powder shells?

Pure novelty is my only reason, never shot with it before and as it's an antique gun it seems it would add to the experience :-)

[Blackpowder]

I've recently started using 65mm Hull Imperial Game 26g and 28g in my hammer gun. They are a little pricy but for the few I'll use the soft shooting nature of them compensates.

That's what I am going for next. For years and years I shot pigeon loads such as ,'Clear Pigeon' for all my pheasant shooting. Pointed in the right direction those 65mm No. 6 pigeon loads took out some pretty high pheasants at a reasonable price. Now it appears as if there are no manufacturers turning out a budget cartridge in 65mm so am forced to invest in ammunition with, 'Game Load' printed on it somewhere meaning in my cynical mind a automatic increase in price for a cartridge not necessarily any better than a ,'Pigeon Load'. Some years ago I shot blackpowder loads at pheasants. Great fun, clouds of pungent smoke and it had to be at least a day of breeze if you wanted to pick a target for the second barrel.

 

Blackpowder