AVB Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. So are you actually saying that everybody who saw those planes fly into the WTC were dreaming? If you, a pilot, with 1,400 hours flying time couldn't do it then I suspect nobody could and therefore must have been an illusion. Incredible In hindsight it's easy to say this or that would happen but nothing like this had ever happened before so I don't believe the response would have been as you predict. Nowadays maybe but not then. The fact is two planes (767's not 757's) flew into the WTC, one (757) flew into the pentagon and one (757) was downed by the passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Wow. There are indeed terrorists amongst us but they may be much closer than you think. 911 was the basis of what your and my world has come to be defined by, very possibly our children and grand children will be living with the consequences. Wasn't it David Cameron who even hinted that any conspiracy theorists should just be jailed ? What jail them because they have an argument for another side to the story?? It's a free country and everyone's entitled to their opinions to be fair, don't take what I said as hard facts it's just my opinions on what happened based on the investigation that was poorly carried out. If it indeed was a cover up the stand by for some angry people that went to war based on lies and fought for nothing and lost close friends. People have strong views and I respect that but if they keep covering up issues that need explaining then they can't just jail people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I mentioned this earlier. He's like a spoilt brat who's never had anyone refuse him anything. +1 he's a narcissist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Golly, this thread has suddenly become extremely interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Why, because I said I could do it? I've had PSION Flight Simulator installed on my ZX Spectrum for the last 38 years. That's A LOT of practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Why, because I said I could do it? I've had PSION Flight Simulator installed on my ZX Spectrum for the last 38 years. That's A LOT of practice. No, because we have a "REAL" Pilot giving us the benefit of his wisdom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. It was only a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Why, because I said I could do it? I've had PSION Flight Simulator installed on my ZX Spectrum for the last 38 years. That's A LOT of practice. Truly impressive. Even more so because the ZX Spectrum was only available from 1982 (34 years ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Okay, I miffed up a bit... I am getting quite old now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 So are you actually saying that everybody who saw those planes fly into the WTC were dreaming? If you, a pilot, with 1,400 hours flying time couldn't do it then I suspect nobody could and therefore must have been an illusion. Incredible In hindsight it's easy to say this or that would happen but nothing like this had ever happened before so I don't believe the response would have been as you predict. Nowadays maybe but not then. The fact is two planes (767's not 757's) flew into the WTC, one (757) flew into the pentagon and one (757) was downed by the passengers. I do sound a tad over the top in my original post so apologies for that, I'm typing on a keyboard the size of a credit card so the grammar and spelling isn't fit for the guardian. It's just over the last few months there has been more and more arguments appearing and they're interesting to say the least! I just see another side to it and find it difficult to believe some of the answers they are giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Truly impressive. Even more so because the ZX Spectrum was only available from 1982 (34 years ago). How would you know. You weren't even born then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 W Ban them all.......let God sort them out ! Who ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I do sound a tad over the top in my original post so apologies for that, I'm typing on a keyboard the size of a credit card so the grammar and spelling isn't fit for the guardian. It's just over the last few months there has been more and more arguments appearing and they're interesting to say the least! I just see another side to it and find it difficult to believe some of the answers they are giving. Your not just OTT. Your "facts" demonstrate a lack of any real in depth technical understanding of the FMC, the AFDS and AT. You demonstrate clearly your lack of knowledge about how they work as part of the auto flight system as a whole or as standalone systems. If you knew what modes they operate in, and what protections they afford when operating in various MCP modes you would never have posted as you did. In short your mistakes are of such a fundamental nature, I seriously doubt your claims about being a pilot of anything other than MS flight sim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. so who was flying the planes then? because they were definitely airliners that crashed into skyscrapers, I saw it live on t.v. with a friend. I mean we agree, it did actually happen, so who flew them? p.s, being that you are an esteemed pilot and former navigator, could you please verify this, with an upload of suitable document of proof? it should be pretty easy. Thanks in advance, Edited January 31, 2017 by wandringstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) What jail them because they have an argument for another side to the story?? It's a free country and everyone's entitled to their opinions to be fair, don't take what I said as hard facts it's just my opinions on what happened based on the investigation that was poorly carried out. If it indeed was a cover up the stand by for some angry people that went to war based on lies and fought for nothing and lost close friends. People have strong views and I respect that but if they keep covering up issues that need explaining then they can't just jail people? I happen to believe 911 was a 50/50 Arab/insider knowledge job so kinda on your side, what I meant to highlight is the fact that the elite are even prepared to take steps to criminalise our thought process and make any hint or suggestion of conspiracy a crime in itself. You have to ask yourself why ? The web is full of video's of very knowledgeable pilots who seem to cast doubt on the official versions of most of the separate incidents, what you mention regarding lack of camera's and fighter jets being scrambled in time etc, are all worthy of individual analysis. One or two may well be debunkable but the whole shebang, not likely methinks, something(s) just aren't right and a million or two lives have been lost as a result and all our safeties and liberties have been sold down the river. Edited January 31, 2017 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 so who was flying the planes then? because they were definitely airliners that crashed into skyscrapers, I saw it live on t.v. with a friend. I mean we agree, it did actually happen, so who flew them? I can't say because I don't know. There are many theories out there drones/missiles/remote controlled or what ever but it's interesting the more you read into it. (Not the conspiracy videos but the new ones by some credible individuals) if they were to release the cockpit voice recorders then that would Provide evidence but they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 How would you know. You weren't even born then? I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Planes clearly did hit those buildings because even today we're not at the level of sophistication needed to digitally conjure up explosions and their resulting debris, the real issue is this : since they couldn't risk those planes NOT hitting the buildings , what measures were taken before hand to make sure they did and by whom. There are lots of hushed up reports of dancing individuals arrested initially but quickly released, who'd dance in such an atmosphere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I happen to believe 911 was a 50/50 Arab/insider knowledge job so kinda on your side, what I meant to highlight is the fact that the elite are even prepared to take steps to criminalise our thought process and make any hint or suggestion of conspiracy a crime in itself. You have to ask yourself why ? The web is full of video's of very knowledgeable pilots who seem to cast doubt on the official versions of most of the separate incidents, what you mention regarding lack of camera's and fighter jets being scrambled in time etc, are all worthy of individual analysis. One or two may well be debunkable but the whole shebang, not likely methinks, something(s) just aren't right and a million or two lives have been lost as a result and all our safeties and liberties have been sold down the river. That's kind of what I wanted to say! Lol, yes there is just something that doesn't sit right with me. I should stop stating that I have facts as they aren't however the questions I have and many others just haven't been answered properly and the first thing people do is jump to the conspiracy thing and start accusing people of the tin foil hat brigade and just disregard all information on the subject as the media said it happened! Its all too perfect in my book. WTC 7... who knows what happened there?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I can't say because I don't know. There are many theories out there drones/missiles/remote controlled or what ever but it's interesting the more you read into it. (Not the conspiracy videos but the new ones by some credible individuals) if they were to release the cockpit voice recorders then that would Provide evidence but they haven't. did you manage any i.d?, the reason I ask again is, that you responded to my very reasonable post, which most logical people would identify with, and dismissed it as rubbish, and replaced it with a flurry of technical impossibilities as to why you feel that the official line was a fantasy, and that your theory is so much more believable. Something like a basic flying licence? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 That's kind of what I wanted to say! Lol, yes there is just something that doesn't sit right with me. I should stop stating that I have facts as they aren't however the questions I have and many others just haven't been answered properly and the first thing people do is jump to the conspiracy thing and start accusing people of the tin foil hat brigade and just disregard all information on the subject as the media said it happened! Its all too perfect in my book. WTC 7... who knows what happened there?? That one appears to have fallen in sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Going back to the conspiracy side of things, I call ball **** on all of the debunked **** and government cover ups. I'm a military pilot, and have been a Navigator for the last 7 years with nearly 1400 hours flying and 5 Op tours, and I could not do what they apparently did with those aircraft that day. It's impossible fact! I am now learning to fly again in a basic PPL equivalent aircraft and there are multiple Saudi Military pilots I train with, and when I say they are incapable of carrying this out I really mean it, you just have to trust me on that one. I train with the cleaver ones not the idiots that want to blow themselves up. I can debunk every debunker out there with hard facts about aviation/aerodynamics/stalling speeds/757 handling. Just to name a few.... They were able to navigate 757s accurately with an FMS (flight management system) and fly off radar undetected by ATC, for over 40 mins towards the world's most heavily defended areas.... bull ****. I know how ATC operate and I know the procedures for protecting airspace, this would never have happened. The CVR (cockpit voice recorders) and data recorder information was never released??? Really?? Destroyed in the crash??? Really? They sit in the tail and are designed to withstand crashes and high Temps but the Pentagon one was destroyed.?! OK but they found the hijackers passport on the ground..... what the actual..... I can go on for hours! But I'm telling you that the moment you veer off track in class A controlled airspace by 3 degrees under radar control ATC are on you like a tramp on chips! The pilots would have set an IFF code 7500, this is hijack code and every man and his dog would be in the air within minutes. However the USA only had two F15s available that day for QRA??? The USA has more stealth F22 Raptors in their national guard than we have aircraft total!!! They knew what was going down. The Saudis I train with take 3 times as long to train to fly basic aircraft due to their language barrier and skill set, they would be incapable of navigating using complicated systems on board a 757, they would have had to have used visual techniques or mastered the FMS and reprogram the flight data to utilise this feature, something after 50 hours on a Cessna would be impossible. The guys I train with get lost when they are 40 miles away from the airfield. CCTV Of the pentagon?? 1 camera from the barrier?? My local tesco has more cameras than that! Just think logically about the whole scenario! It's hoop! 300 passengers on a plane and Military trained pilots gave up control to a couple of bell whackers with Stanley knives?!?! Hmm and then flew undetected from US Air Traffic Control and the Military Radar Units 4 Passenger Airliners accurately off course for over 40 minutes navigating to new York and the pentagon with complicated systems and flying an 8000ft decending spiral turn at the correct speed without stalling and causing no damage to the obstructions in the foreground and hitting the pentagon exactly on the forward facing side of the building, when they couldn't even land a Cessna...... it's been tried by airline pilots with 5000 hours and they reject the theory. I could go on but I have a feeling we may not see the air crash investigation tv show on any of these crashes any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I'll see your conspiracy theories and raise you simulation fact. It's all a simulation. Just ask Elon. Anything is possible in a simulation. Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 did you manage any i.d?, the reason I ask again is, that you responded to my very reasonable post, which most logical people would identify with, and dismissed it as rubbish, and replaced it with a flurry of technical impossibilities as to why you feel that the official line was a fantasy, and that your theory is so much more believable. Something like a basic flying licence? Thanks again. Just ask Shaun, his nephew will verify for me as he worked on the planes I flew. The military do not get basic flying licenses they are exempt from CAA licensing (PPL/CPL) I have my logbook but I'm not publically posting pictures of it for verification for this. It's a simple discussion you will just have to take my word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Your not just OTT. Your "facts" demonstrate a lack of any real in depth technical understanding of the FMC, the AFDS and AT. You demonstrate clearly your lack of knowledge about how they work as part of the auto flight system as a whole or as standalone systems. If you knew what modes they operate in, and what protections they afford when operating in various MCP modes you would never have posted as you did. In short your mistakes are of such a fundamental nature, I seriously doubt your claims about being a pilot of anything other than MS flight sim. So more to the point if I don't know about them in depth then how on earth were they supposed to? They studies the AFDS system of a 757 and a 767?? Or looking into the tech manual to work out how the FMC functioned? The Tornado had a AFDS system that had two basic computers and linked in to a flight director system that could either be controlled in a nav slave mode or a HDG slave mode to the pilots EHSI which would be direct. It has auto throttle and TFR which was all linked through the auto pilot. So what ever nav route I uploaded it would follow providing the pilot wasn't in HDG hold or RHH which would not utilise the TFR and in fact just hold a height on the RAD Alt (dangerous) however if he were to disengage auto pilot then he would either use stick force cut out or the ICO at the back of the stick or in fact just press the button on the top of the stick (HOTAS). I told you I never used a FMC or a 757 AFDS so why would I know anything about them, it's not a "let's see how much I know and he doesn't about the 757 tech" I was merely saying how did these suicide individuals manage to operate complicated systems from a point in airspace where they had no idea where they were to a building/s a few hundred miles away having trained on Cessna aircraft. I don't use those systems and therefore know nothing about them, you want to talk about the GR4 then fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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