toontastic Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 All these protests above citizens from 7 countries being refused entry to the states and yet not one protest about the same 7 countries banning Israeli passport holders from entering their countries. My wife is also banned as she once holidayed in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 All these protests above citizens from 7 countries being refused entry to the states and yet not one protest about the same 7 countries banning Israeli passport holders from entering their countries. My wife is also banned as she once holidayed in Israel. Liberalism is a one way street mate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I am betting that you have not accumulated much wealth in your life, those of us who have anything to speak of are not generally inclined to "redistribute" what we have labored for. There are many here that favor your approach, I see them everyday at the gym, not really caring about finding a job just hoping the nanny state will provide for them. A few actually still live with their parents--- at age 25-30--- Is this you? Wealth redistribution is a socialist agenda not far removed from communism-- that hasn't worked yet. You would be right on the wealth part . My point is that if we don't maintain the masses they will redistribute the wealth for us. Either in our own country or globaly with the rise and fall of nations. What we are seeing with the Brexit and Trump vote is protest against the status quo brought about by the slow decline of the leading nations as others come forward with growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I believe the UK suffers from a surfeit of whiny rent-a-mob protesters. Needless to say, they are bleeding heart militants who like a good minority to "defend" - almost to the point of turkeys voting for Christmas. I like the Australian outlook - old-school (almost 1950's England) conservative. Their two main broadsheets have nothing like the hysterical reporting we read in the UK about Trump. They mention the Presidential decree, but focus on the law rather than the placard wavers. Perhaps we need to stop slavishly following America's cultural dross and start taking notice of Oz's mature approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Perhaps we need to stop slavishly following America's cultural dross and start taking notice of Oz's mature approach. Hear, bloody hear. Edited January 31, 2017 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Farage and Trump are what happen when the establishment has for too long and to a lesser or greater extent, ignored the unrepresented masses. We get what we deserve. Now we have to live with it. Correct, we do indeed get what we deserve and murica deserves Trump . The only caveat though is that all such right wing creatures (like other right wing creatures from the past) predictably always pick the path of least resistance and demonise those who are least able to truly fight back the system and those predisposed to right wing thoughts lap it up as truth and hero worship them as being non PC and telling it like it is. Yesterday it was Jews today it's Muslims, tomorrow will prolly be Chinese and so the circle goes. In reality they're just pressing the correct buttons to produce the loudest noise from the least informed AND the least willing to be informed as some of our posters have ably demonstrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844 This one is up to 113,000 so far! It was only started yesterday and is climbing rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) ...all such right wing creatures...pick the path of least resistance and demonise those who are least able to truly fight back... yesterday it was Jews today it's Muslims I'm not sure, my WWII history is a tad flaky, but when exactly did the German Jews start flying planes into the Reich Chancellery/ blowing up stuff or shooting innocent people? It's not the same, is it? No, it's not. Trump is guilty, at worst, of an over simplified solution to a complex problem. However, there cannot be any doubt that certain sections of the world contain number of individuals for whom their faith of choice is Islam, which by definition makes them muslims and, sadly, a substantial number of those, albeit a minority of the whole, wish to do us in the West harm. Currently we have poor intelligence on those individuals and even poorer checks to ensure that they cannot disguise themselves among people genuinely seeking refuge. It's a pretty poor temporary 'fix' for that, happily leapt upon by those upset with the results of the democratic process of election. Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm not sure, my WWII history is a tad flaky, but when exactly did the German Jews start blowing up stuff and shooting people? It's not the same, is it? No, it's not. Trump is guilty, at worst, of an over simplified solution to a complex problem. However, there cannot be any doubt that certain sections of the world contain number of individuals for whom their faith of choice is Islam, which by definition makes them muslims and, sadly, a substantial number of those, albeit a minority of the whole, wish to do us in the West harm. Currently we have poor intelligence on those individuals and even poorer checks to ensure that they cannot disguise themselves among people genuinely seeking refuge. It's a pretty poor temporary 'fix' for that, happily leapt upon by those upset with the results of the Democratic process of election. Hitler used the Jews as a reason why Germany lost WWI and over a period of time demonised them to make them scapegoats for everything that was wrong in Germany. By turning hatred on the Jews he solidified the country behind him. The Yanks did the same with the Commie witch hunts and now they are demonising all Muslims whether they are terrorists or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyKong Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm not sure, my WWII history is a tad flaky, but when exactly did the German Jews start flying planes into the Reich Chancellery/ blowing up stuff or shooting innocent people? It's not the same, is it? No, it's not. Trump is guilty, at worst, of an over simplified solution to a complex problem. However, there cannot be any doubt that certain sections of the world contain number of individuals for whom their faith of choice is Islam, which by definition makes them muslims and, sadly, a substantial number of those, albeit a minority of the whole, wish to do us in the West harm. Currently we have poor intelligence on those individuals and even poorer checks to ensure that they cannot disguise themselves among people genuinely seeking refuge. It's a pretty poor temporary 'fix' for that, happily leapt upon by those upset with the results of the democratic process of election. Nicely put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) ...now they are demonising all Muslims whether they are terrorists or not. No they're not. They've said that there is a temporary hold on applicants from certain countries. Precisely as the Obama administration did for 6 months; although that was as a result of specific intelligence at the time. Put your perspective specs back on. If they start making noises about rounding up all muslims, or perhaps suggesting they have to wear a badge to denote their religion, I'll be right there with you on the protest brother. Meantime, chill out. Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 "Soo ,to fight the right wing 'nazis' you have to become left wing 'nazis' is this the progress you are talking about ?" The Nazis like so many authoritarian regimes were left wing! The were the Nationalist Socialist party. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm not sure, my WWII history is a tad flaky, but when exactly did the German Jews start flying planes into the Reich Chancellery/ blowing up stuff or shooting innocent people? It's not the same, is it? No, it's not. Trump is guilty, at worst, of an over simplified solution to a complex problem. However, there cannot be any doubt that certain sections of the world contain number of individuals for whom their faith of choice is Islam, which by definition makes them muslims and, sadly, a substantial number of those, albeit a minority of the whole, wish to do us in the West harm. Currently we have poor intelligence on those individuals and even poorer checks to ensure that they cannot disguise themselves among people genuinely seeking refuge. It's a pretty poor temporary 'fix' for that, happily leapt upon by those upset with the results of the democratic process of election. Talking about flaky history and oversimplifications those planes had terrorists in them, pure and simple. They did not represent the entire Muslim race or creed so why demonise a third of the planet and destroy country after country for the actions of 20 terrorists ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 No they're not. They've said that there is a temporary hold on applicants from certain countries. Precisely as the Obama administration did for 6 months; although that was as a result of specific intelligence at the time. Put your perspective specs back on. If they start making noises about rounding up all muslims, or perhaps suggesting they have to wear a badge to denote their religion, I'll be right there with you on the protest brother. Meantime, chill out. At a December 2015 rally in Charleston, South Carolina, just a few days after the San Bernardino shooting, Trump told thousands of supporters: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on." Donald Trump said he still planned to ban Muslims from entering the US and to build a Muslim "registry" after the latest terrorist attacks in Berlin. Following an Isis-related attack at a Christmas market in Berlin this week, Mr Trump renewed his calls to carry out sweeping discriminatory acts against Muslims from overseas and the American Muslim population of around 3.3 million people. "You know my plans all along and I’ve been proven to be right," he told reporters at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. "100 per cent correct. What’s happening is disgraceful." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Correct, we do indeed get what we deserve and murica deserves Trump . The only caveat though is that all such right wing creatures (like other right wing creatures from the past) predictably always pick the path of least resistance and demonise those who are least able to truly fight back the system and those predisposed to right wing thoughts lap it up as truth and hero worship them as being non PC and telling it like it is. Yesterday it was Jews today it's Muslims, tomorrow will prolly be Chinese and so the circle goes. In reality they're just pressing the correct buttons to produce the loudest noise from the least informed AND the least willing to be informed as some of our posters have ably demonstrated. Im not sure what youre getting at here. You dont like Trump ,ok. You dont agree with right wing policy,ok. So what are you advocating ? Or are you just argumentative ,having a rant ? "Soo ,to fight the right wing 'nazis' you have to become left wing 'nazis' is this the progress you are talking about ?" The Nazis like so many authoritarian regimes were left wing! The were the Nationalist Socialist party. David. I think you will find youre wrong there Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 He might be the new Adge Cutler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 A country should have the right to let in those it wants and stop those it does not......where's the problem with that ? Those that are not wanted should get a thicker skin and get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 those planes had terrorists in them, pure and simple. They did not represent the entire Muslim race or creed so why demonise a third of the planet and destroy country after country for the actions of 20 terrorists ? Because those terrorists were muslims, muslims with a fundamental belief that the West is the great Satan and that all kuffar must die. By any means. So, the countries that either sponsor, harbour or support those sections of muslims that follow this extreme belief have been added to a temporary ban list. However, that isn't 'all' muslims; those muslims from a country that has done more than any other to sponsor and nurture these extremist beliefs are, oddly, off the list. Along with some of the others. I'm surprised both by your inability to grasp the simple reasoning behind their decision, however wrong it is, and by the choice to use the Jewish holocaust by means of a comparison. I don't think these two events are even comparable. As for answers to why we went to war and battered the hell out of a flawed, but largely stable, middle-east over the last decade you will have to ask the fundamentalist Christian politicians that preceded this administration for answers to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Because those terrorists were muslims, muslims with a fundamental belief that the West is the great Satan and that all kuffar must die. By any means. So, the countries that either sponsor, harbour or support those sections of muslims that follow this extreme belief have been added to a temporary ban list. However, that isn't 'all' muslims; those muslims from a country that has done more than any other to sponsor and nurture these extremist beliefs are, oddly, off the list. Along with some of the others. I'm surprised both by your inability to grasp the simple reasoning behind their decision, however wrong it is, and by the choice to use the Jewish holocaust by means of a comparison. I don't think these two events are even comparable. As for answers to why we went to war and battered the hell out of a flawed, but largely stable, middle-east over the last decade you will have to ask the fundamentalist Christian politicians that preceded this administration for answers to that. What you can't see is that the German demonising the Jews was exactly the same as Trump is now doing to the Muslims. Of the 3 million or so Muslims living in the States only a handful have terrorist leanings. Of the millions of Muslims living in the UK only a few have committed terrorism. It is up to the security services to identify the ones who are doing harm and deal with them. You cannot classify everyone who is Muslim as being a terrorist. In the same way that not every Catholic wanted to kill British soldiers or plant bombs in British cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I admit, the similarities are lost to me. Putting a temporary ban on immigration from territories that harbour or support Islamic terrorists, or those with extreme beliefs based solely upon their religious beliefs when weighed against the systematic and systemic persecution Jews; blaming those Jews for the devastation wrought to a country and society by a war fought and lost and treating the Jewish faith in it's entirety as a cancer... nah, I can't see it. Now, if Trump sad 'muslims are ruining are car manufacturing' or 'muslims have taken your jobs' or perhaps, 'muslims are a cancer that need eradicating' then yes, I'd be getting the comparison and I'd be calling 'Nazi!' loud and clear. But, instead, they've put a hold on new arrivals. For a bit anyway. Edited January 31, 2017 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Outdated and irrelevant is a description of those who believe they are somehow special because they were born white, British\American and often male. Such people also tend to think their views are unquestionably right without providing any intellectual or moral justification for them. They also generally think they have an authoritarian right to force their own world order on others. It is simpler to call them the "Remain camp". Whatever the rights and wrongs of Trump's decision, Hitler persecuted the Jews without them harbouring terrorists. I agree that Muslim countries cannot be held responsible for a few terrorists, but the Jewish comparison is a large step too far for me. Trump is temporarily banning some visitors - for sound or unsound reasons - but he is not exterminating them. USA involvement in overseas killings was more up Obama's street. Obama is held up as a shining beacon - lord knows why, whereas Trump is vilified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Because those terrorists were muslims, muslims with a fundamental belief that the West is the great Satan and that all kuffar must die. By any means. So, the countries that either sponsor, harbour or support those sections of muslims that follow this extreme belief have been added to a temporary ban list. However, that isn't 'all' muslims; those muslims from a country that has done more than any other to sponsor and nurture these extremist beliefs are, oddly, off the list. Along with some of the others. I'm surprised both by your inability to grasp the simple reasoning behind their decision, however wrong it is, and by the choice to use the Jewish holocaust by means of a comparison. I don't think these two events are even comparable. As for answers to why we went to war and battered the hell out of a flawed, but largely stable, middle-east over the last decade you will have to ask the fundamentalist Christian politicians that preceded this administration for answers to that. The media told you those stories , the West in turn went and destroyed 2 entire countries (neither of which was involved in 911) straight away under false pretences and then continued its rampage via the likes of Libya and Syria with no sign of it stopping any time soon. Why can't YOU see that's terrorism too. Some people like to demonise whole groups because it appeals to their inner nature, others seek enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Im not sure what youre getting at here. You dont like Trump ,ok. You dont agree with right wing policy,ok. So what are you advocating ? Or are you just argumentative ,having a rant ? I think you will find youre wrong there Sir. You're not sure what I'm getting at here ? Not sure I can put it any simpler, Trump/Farrage/other far rights exploit fear and the easiest targets are usually the immigrants, all the easier to steal the billions and hide them away in untaxable havens when yooose all up in arms over ferinners. He might be the new Adge Cutler. Hello JDog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Muslims are individuals, most ME folk aren't Muslim in the context that you seem to believe. I have said this before but the reason they're all lumped together as Muslims is because it makes demonisation and branding easier, they don't refer to you as Christians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 What you can't see is that the German demonising the Jews was exactly the same as Trump is now doing to the Muslims. Of the 3 million or so Muslims living in the States only a handful have terrorist leanings. Of the millions of Muslims living in the UK only a few have committed terrorism. It is up to the security services to identify the ones who are doing harm and deal with them. You cannot classify everyone who is Muslim as being a terrorist. In the same way that not every Catholic wanted to kill British soldiers or plant bombs in British cities. There was only a 'few ' people who ran around killing innocents with semi auto centre fires and handguns, those firearms are no longer within the public domain in this country. I dont remember any street protests or officials resigning over it. It takes great tragedy (usually) to galvanise the people and stop them bickering over the left and the right way of doing things. I often wonder if ISIS rammed an airliner into a densely populated area of London,would the same people bleating about Trump shut their cakeholes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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