Question for the over 60's

[armsid]

as a voter in the ,70,s for the common market (trade agreement) i have seen vast changes in all parts of industry and the country as a whole. we lost our identity and going back to pre eu days will see us great britain making things to sell to the world.the EU has caused a lot of division and i hope our elected (as opposed to theEU unelected) leaders will bring the UK back united with work and jobs and our goods will be stamped MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN

[four-wheel-drive]

The way that I look at it for many years the Scots mostly voted Labour them Mr thatcher came along and let most of our industry go down the plug hole I think that the Scots just do not want the Torys telling them what to do and that is the real reason why they want to leave us.

[Whitebridges]

It's partly the EU, but I'd argue that the biggest cause of the current antagonisms was Tony Blair. He thought he'd be clever and gerrymander a permanent Labour majority in Scotland by devolving spending power to a local government that he fondly imagined would be controlled by the Labour party in Westminster. Remember at that time, Labour were traditionally the largest party in Scotland.

But he was too clever for his own good. At the same time as he was devolving political power to tbe Celtic parliaments, he pulled'Nu-Labour' rightwards. This then opened up a massive gap on the left that was gratefully occupied by the Nats. Issues that had previously been debated in purely political or class terms - public housing, schooling, social support, etc, etc, now became couched in nationalist terms. Not only that, but the subsequent collapse of the Labour vote north of the border - a collapse brought on by Nu-Labour's economic and social desertion of its traditional voters- now meant a Tory government in Westminster for the foreseeable future.

Of course, it's a Nat Party fantasy come true! The Tories or us? Take your pick.

And so here we are.

 

Brilliant post. So what's needed is old Labour in Scotland rather than that **** Bliar spouted off all those years ago?

[KFC]

It's partly the EU, but I'd argue that the biggest cause of the current antagonisms was Tony Blair. He thought he'd be clever and gerrymander a permanent Labour majority in Scotland by devolving spending power to a local government that he fondly imagined would be controlled by the Labour party in Westminster. Remember at that time, Labour were traditionally the largest party in Scotland.

 

But he was too clever for his own good. At the same time as he was devolving political power to tbe Celtic parliaments, he pulled'Nu-Labour' rightwards. This then opened up a massive gap on the left that was gratefully occupied by the Nats. Issues that had previously been debated in purely political or class terms - public housing, schooling, social support, etc, etc, now became couched in nationalist terms. Not only that, but the subsequent collapse of the Labour vote north of the border - a collapse brought on by Nu-Labour's economic and social desertion of its traditional voters- now meant a Tory government in Westminster for the foreseeable future.

 

Of course, it's a Nat Party fantasy come true! The Tories or us? Take your pick.

 

And so here we are.

+1

and Uncle Dave continued the theme by giving Scotland even more devolved powers in order to buy the remain vote.

 

Along with the Welsh and NI, Westminster has done a pretty good job of breaking up the united kingdom (sic) by devolving powers to buy votes that at the same time grant independence.

Why devolve powers at the same time as preaching that we're stronger together?

 

United Kingdom? My ****, without any help from the EU

 

[Bobba]

And there are those that like to tell the world their beliefs in how far down we've slipped on the world stage.

Fly in to Heathrow and in bold letters it says "Welcome to Britain". Whatever happened to the word GREAT?

[Gunman]

Divide and Conquer . Thats the EU way . Interesting that at the 60th celebration of the Treaty of Rome the talk was of a sovereign Europe . Implying that the aim is to make the member states little more than administrative regions . But thats been the plan all along .

The SNP has bought hook line and sinker into this , mistakenly believing that they will have more autonomy . Douh!

[Vince Green]

The SNP has bought hook line and sinker into this , mistakenly believing that they will have more autonomy . Douh!

Scotland needs the EU's money, its as simple as that. They can't live without somebody else picking up the bill. However, it doesn't make any sense that the EU would let them in on that basis.

 

Talk is cheap

[Cranfield]

I don't think it has anything to do with the EU.

The "unity" question was never an issue until Scotland was given its own Parliment in 1999.

Since then various Scottish leaders have striven for more power which can only come with complete autonomy.

[Eyefor]

I voted Yes to the Common Market in the 1970's - but the current (non elected) Eu juggernaut is a long way (in the wrong direction) from that.

 

I voted Out in 2016 and will open a bottle of (yes, French) Champagne tomorrow when Article 50 is triggered because, whilst the short term ride to Brexit might be bumpy, I deeply believe that the long term rewards for my kids will be huge.

 

The Eu idyll is failing anyway and, had the UK voted to remain, I reckon Juncker et al would have said "if you're in, you're right in - so its the Euro and Schengen for the UK" and my wife and I would definitely have left this Country for good.

 

I feel proud that I voted out, proud that the Out vote reinstated the belief that every vote counts and proud that there is an opportunity (in our own hands) to make Britain Great Britain again.

 

Blinkered and idiotic "Wee Jimmy" can **** off.

[Blackpowder]

And there are those that like to tell the world their beliefs in how far down we've slipped on the world stage.

Fly in to Heathrow and in bold letters it says "Welcome to Britain". Whatever happened to the word GREAT?

Trouble is our country seems seldom to be referred to as Great Britain, United Kingdom seems the expression of choice by many today.

 

Blackpowder

[Vince Green]

The parallels between the EU and SNP are quite striking if you think about it. Both power grabbing to fuel the political ambitions of greedy selfish politicians. Constantly moving the goalposts, always wanting more.

[harkom]

you tube - see ruth davidson - "no new arguments for indyref2 "

 

she tells sturgeon how the real world sees it....

[yod dropper]

I don't qualify but there is something in it.

 

Each country in the EU is split into areas for funding and administrative purposes. This model suited those countries that are very young such as Germany and Italy which were made of up of states and those such as France that had historically distinct regions. This didn't work for England - the EU 'East of England' has no historical or cultural connection but just happens to have the right population in its made up borders. This works more so for Scotland who are treated as a single entity and get an increase in their sense of unity and separation from the UK. So Ditchman, I would say the EU has, by accident at least, happened to weaken the UK by increasing the Scottish sense of nation, distinct from the UK.