serpent887 Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I have a semi-auto which is on section 2, and I also have a slot on my FAC for 12G firearm. Question: Can anyone advise whether it is mandatory to have the work done by a gunsmith? I mean, the plug is dead easy to remove, and I can easily write to the Firearms section explaining what I have done. Advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 As long as you have an open FAC slot you can do the work yourself. Not sure about the "plug" though, as the magazine tube SHOULD be permanently crimped to only allow two cartridges. Removable plugs are more of a temporary fix to comply with hunting rules. Most conversions I've seen involved replacing or modifying the magazine tube. What make/model is it? Officially imported? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpent887 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hi, Thanks for your help. The gun is a Browning Maxus, the plug is easily removed, no crimp. The question now relates to paperwork. I am looking at the firearms forms and assume I simply transfer it to myself as section 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I'm more concerned that the only restriction at present is the plug! The magazine restriction is NOT supposed to be an easy fix! Yes. Just email the firearms department telling them you've moved the gun from your shotgun cert to your empty FAC slot. Anyone else reading this got a Maxus with similar plug? Sounds very iffy....not meeting the firearms regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpent887 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Thanks again. I'll let the FEO know. Much obliged for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) my (uk issued) maxus wasnt like the non restricted versions (although the handbook said it was ) and the plug wasnt, as the 'handbook' mentioned. a removable with a key affair, mine was a fixed mag tube 'end' and the tube was crimped perhaps others escaped the proof house ?? Edited April 9, 2017 by 69chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 ...perhaps others escaped the proof house ?? That's my concern. Legitimately purchased guns could be being held on the wrong paperwork. Not a healthy place to be, legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyeruk Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 My Winchester sx3 had a plug that could be removed in two minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 My Winchester sx3 had a plug that could be removed in two minutes? That's NOT UK compliant. Heard of several importers confusing the legality of these plugs! Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyeruk Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Removal Winchester Super X3 1. First, make certain the firearm is completely unloaded and the safety is in the "on safe" position. 2. Unscrew the magazine cap and remove it. Remember, always point the end of the magazine away from your face and in a safe direction. 3. Remove the forearm by sliding it forward over the gas bracket. It is also acceptable to remove the barrel as explained previously under "Takedown" on page 12. 4. The magazine plug lays underneath the magazine spring retainer locked in the forward end of the magazine tube. To remove the magazine spring retainer, depress the magazine spring retainer tab — located in the window on the magazine tube — with a screwdriver while keeping your free hand on the magazine spring retainer (Figure 12). Slowly remove the magazine spring retainer as it is under pressure of the magazine spring (Figure 13). 5. As the spring pushes the retainer out of the tube the plug will come with it. Remove the retainer, the plug and the magazine spring from the magazine tube. 6. Remove the plug from between the retainer and the magazine spring (Figure 14). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Removal Winchester Super X3 1. First, make certain the firearm is completely unloaded and the safety is in the "on safe" position. 2. Unscrew the magazine cap and remove it. Remember, always point the end of the magazine away from your face and in a safe direction. 3. Remove the forearm by sliding it forward over the gas bracket. It is also acceptable to remove the barrel as explained previously under "Takedown" on page 12. 4. The magazine plug lays underneath the magazine spring retainer locked in the forward end of the magazine tube. To remove the magazine spring retainer, depress the magazine spring retainer tab located in the window on the magazine tube with a screwdriver while keeping your free hand on the magazine spring retainer (Figure 12). Slowly remove the magazine spring retainer as it is under pressure of the magazine spring (Figure 13). 5. As the spring pushes the retainer out of the tube the plug will come with it. Remove the retainer, the plug and the magazine spring from the magazine tube. 6. Remove the plug from between the retainer and the magazine spring (Figure 14). That's the plug required for hunting migratory birds, in the USA (& parts of Europe)...it's PURELY THERE to satisfy those game shooting laws...nothing else. That plug is otherwise fitted in an FAC shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyeruk Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 By removing the plug,it makes it possible to hold 5 cartridges,making it FAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I have a Beretta a303 , owned from new and on SGC and uncrimped Came with a cert from Gunmark , see https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/341675-semi-autos/page-2 post 28 If I clean the inside of the mag tube or want to change the spring and follower, i have to remove the plug , very easily Thankfully in some ways If my 50 pence plastic cartridge follower in my Rem 1100 or 1187 ****** up , it will cost over £300 to replace the follower due to the crimp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I'm more concerned that the only restriction at present is the plug! The magazine restriction is NOT supposed to be an easy fix! Yes. Just email the firearms department telling them you've moved the gun from your shotgun cert to your empty FAC slot. Anyone else reading this got a Maxus with similar plug? Sounds very iffy....not meeting the firearms regulations. I think the Police know it's a bit of a silly rule. I have heard from several people about buying shotguns chambered 3 1/2", which would therefore hold 4x 2 3/4" shells, technically not ok. But of a grey area really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 so you holding a fac on a sgc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymondley Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Happy to be corrected, but while the magazine is restricted, in whatever way, it's a S2 by defnition. Legally, is there such a thing as a "restricted" S1, the restriction, whatever it is, makes it a S2 surely? So what does the law actually say regarding magazine restrictions and how they may or may not be removed? Do they have to be a permanent modification? Doesn't take long to change a mag' tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Thin ice imho are these magazine tubes stamped by a proof house?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think the Police know it's a bit of a silly rule. I have heard from several people about buying shotguns chambered 3 1/2", which would therefore hold 4x 2 3/4" shells, technically not ok. But of a grey area really. Silly rule? Firearms offences are an "absolute offence" in law. The magazine capacity restriction is tied to the chamber length...so 3 1/2" tubes WILL be longer. (though not sure how 4 std. cartridges will fit!) You can cram a few Aguila mini shells in a 2 3/4" restricted tube. That WOULD be legal. A plastic rod would NOT. The tubes SHOULD be crimped accordingly. Importers must satisfy the law, not cut corners & hoodwink customers to save a few quid. No grey areas at all. Just SGC or FAC rules to satisfy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymondley Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Thin ice imho are these magazine tubes stamped by a proof house?? After a quick google of the Firearms act, this appears to be the decider. No stamp on the mag' tube and it's a S1. End of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I have always understood it to require a permanent alteration .. usually a crimp. Just seems a lot of work and trouble, unless you plan to take part in a competition where five shot mags would be required. I have shot the three shot mags now for a long time and cannot remember when or where on pigeons, crows, flighting, decoying, clay flushes etc., where I ever needed more than three anyway and I have been involved in some hectic shooting. 100 crows in exactly 60 mins, 106 shots, witnessed and 148 crows on sprouting maize in 2 1/2 hrs, did not record the empties that time and many more such occasions. Just feed 'em in the bottom as I shoot. (Rem 1100 16 gauge/870 Wingmaster). Not saying you shouldn't if that floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Silly rule? Firearms offences are an "absolute offence" in law. The magazine capacity restriction is tied to the chamber length...so 3 1/2" tubes WILL be longer. (though not sure how 4 std. cartridges will fit!) You can cram a few Aguila mini shells in a 2 3/4" restricted tube. That WOULD be legal. A plastic rod would NOT. The tubes SHOULD be crimped accordingly. Importers must satisfy the law, not cut corners & hoodwink customers to save a few quid. No grey areas at all. Just SGC or FAC rules to satisfy. So if a gun chambered for 3 1/2" shells, can hold 4 x 2 3/4" shells that's ok? I wouldn't have thought so, although have seen several members on here mention that this was possible over the years. Hence my silly rule comment. Genuinely interested to know what one would do if they had the above scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 So if a gun chambered for 3 1/2" shells, can hold 4 x 2 3/4" shells that's ok? I wouldn't have thought so, although have seen several members on here mention that this was possible over the years. Hence my silly rule comment. Genuinely interested to know what one would do if they had the above scenario. Yes...hence mention of the Aguila shells, these being 2" they would take up a lot less space. The obverse scenario would be ALL guns are restricted to ONLY allow a couple of 2 3/4" shells in the tube. That would make no sense for 3" or 3 1/2" chambered guns...as these could only fit one complete shell in that space. The fact shorter shells take up less space is known that's not the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) So if a gun chambered for 3 1/2" shells, can hold 4 x 2 3/4" shells that's ok? I wouldn't have thought so, although have seen several members on here mention that this was possible over the years. Hence my silly rule comment. Genuinely interested to know what one would do if they had the above scenario. Can't see how a 3 1/2" chambered gun will hold 4 2 3/4" cartridges! a cartridge for a 3 1/2 gun is give or take 3 1/4" long unfired x 2= a mag length of 6.5 inches, a cartridge for 2 3/4" chamber is give or take 2 1/2" long unfired so 6.5" (mag) divided by 2 1/2" (cartridge) = 2.6 From my understanding to be a s2 the magazine must be permanently modified so as to be not able to hold more that 2 cartridges and be marked by a proof houes Edited April 9, 2017 by bluesj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Can't see how a 3 1/2" chambered gun will hold 4 2 3/4" cartridges! a cartridge for a 3 1/2 gun is give or take 3 1/4" long unfired x 2= a mag length of 6.5 inches, a cartridge for 2 3/4" chamber is give or take 2 1/2" long unfired so 6.5" (mag) divided by 2 1/2" (cartridge) = 2.6 From my understanding to be a s1 the magazine must be permanently modified so as to be not able to hold more that 2 cartridges and be marked by a proof houes Almost. Though you mean to be a S2..., as without the crimp & Proof stamp the gun IS ALREADY S1 (FAC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Almost. Though you mean to be a S2..., as without the crimp & Proof stamp the gun IS ALREADY S1 (FAC) Sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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