Converting a semi auto to FAC

[TDS]

No crimp or proof stamps necessary on Berettas imported post 1989 http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/shotgun/secondhand-beretta-semi-autos-review..magazine capacity..

I refer again to https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/341675-semi-autos/page-2 my post no. 28..

Read the paragraph on my restriction cert. in quotation marks..

It would seem guns made specifically for the UK market are plugged e.g Beretta , Browning/Winchester ... Remington and others are imported in their full design spec for world markets. and have to be crimped

[Lloyd90]

No crimp or proof stamps necessary on Berettas imported post 1989 http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/shotgun/secondhand-beretta-semi-autos-review..magazine capacity..

I refer again to https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/341675-semi-autos/page-2 my post no. 28..

Read the paragraph on my restriction cert. in quotation marks..

It would seem guns made specifically for the UK market are plugged e.g Beretta , Browning/Winchester ... Remington and others are imported in their full design spec for world markets. and have to be crimped

So even if the plug is easily removable it doesn't matter? Hmmm

[CharlieT]

So even if the plug is easily removable it doesn't matter? Hmmm

Ah, but you are quite right to Hmmm.

 

High capacity magazines with a removable plug are indeed illegal to hold on a SGC as they do not comply with the law. A quick read of the relevant act will confirm your feelings and the fact that migratory plugs do not qualify.

 

For those unbelievers I quote the Act below.........

2Re-definition of exempted shot guns.

(1)Section 1 of the principal Act shall have effect with the following amendments the purpose of which is to require a firearm certificate for certain types of shot gun.

(2)For paragraph (a) of subsection (3) (which exempts shot guns with barrels not less than 24 inches in length) there shall be substituted—

“(a)a shot gun within the meaning of this Act, that is to say a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which—

(i)has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter;

(ii)either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges; and

(iii)is not a revolver gun; and”.

(3)After subsection (3) there shall be inserted—

 

“(3A)A gun which has been adapted to have such a magazine as is mentioned in subsection (3)(a)(ii) above shall not be regarded as falling within that provision unless the magazine bears a mark approved by the Secretary of State for denoting that fact and that mark has been made, and the adaptation has been certified in writing as having been carried out in a manner approved by him, either by one of the two companies mentioned in section 58(1) of this Act or by such other person as may be approved by him for that purpose.”

[saddler]

Combine wishful thinking, greedy/tight fisted importers & ignorance....and removable plugs ARE totally fine.

Just NOT LEGAL, a minor issue, but slightly important

 

As stated earlier firearms offences are absolute offences.

Illegal possession gets a mandatory five year sentence. Owning a section 1 gun on a section 2 certificate IS illegal possession.

 

Who makes the law here, the importers or the government?

Not rocket science!

 

Anyone with such a shotgun should consult an RFD now.

[ChrisPCarter]

Regarding the matter of absolute offences, I was watching "Countryside 999" on TV the other morning and the police carried out a raid on a travellers site where they suspected there were unlicensed vehicles.

They came across an old single barrel shotgun which the owner claimed was handed down to him and he never used.

It was unlicensed and firearms officers were called in to check it out and remove it. They didn't find any ammo.

The owner was later given a caution and the gun destroyed.

I have to say I was quite surprised how leniently it was dealt with and it goes to show not all the firearms laws and penalties are as black and white as people often claim, and circumstances are considered.

Edited April 10, 2017 by ChrisPCarter

[Rimfireboy]

Mandatory five years imprisonment relates to illegal ownership of section 5 firearms.

[GingerCat]

Mandatory five years imprisonment relates to illegal ownership of section 5 firearms.

And it's not mandatory either, rather a starting point for consideration.

[kennett]

Can't see how a 3 1/2" chambered gun will hold 4 2 3/4" cartridges! a cartridge for a 3 1/2 gun is give or take 3 1/4" long unfired x 2= a mag length of 6.5 inches, a cartridge for 2 3/4"

chamber is give or take 2 1/2" long unfired so 6.5" (mag) divided by 2 1/2" (cartridge) = 2.6

 

From my understanding to be a s2 the magazine must be permanently modified so as to be not able to hold more that 2 cartridges and be marked by a proof houes

My 3 1/2" chambered sxp will hold 3 x 2 1/2" cartridges in the magazine. A friend had one of the older maxus and his mag was definately only restricted by a plastic plug.

[leadbreakfast]

My beretta a303 was just a tube with a spring in and to restrict it was a plastic cartridge type thing in there.

I'm sure all 303 are the same.

I took the plastic cartridge out and put it on my fac.

[srspower]

My 3 1/2" chambered sxp will hold 3 x 2 1/2" cartridges in the magazine. A friend had one of the older maxus and his mag was definately only restricted by a plastic plug.

 

I have a friend with a 3" chambered maxus and it will hold 3 x 2 3/4" shells easily. Comes in handy!

[Breastman]

And it's not mandatory either, rather a starting point for consideration.

 

The CPS sentencing guide states it is mandatory.

 

If anyone's interested/bored, here's the list of trouble and the subsequent sentence you can get for yourself for being naughty with guns. 'Technical' offences relating to S1 & S2 firearms as being discussed here seem to attract a 6 month sentence or a fine;

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a034

[Scully]

The thing that amuses me regarding such areas of legislation is that it causes so much consternation with shooters.

If you're in a hide or wherever with a mate, and he says 'see if you can get three in the mag' and it turns out you can, who is gonna know apart from you and your mate? Is anyone going to adhere to the 'two in the mag' and one up the spout ' if they're in the middle of a wood or wherever with no one else about with their S2 shotgun?

The same goes with the S1 shotgun.

If you're in the hide with a mate who has his S1 shotgun and he says 'fancy a go?' Is anyone going to say 'no, it's against the law'. Seriously?

[CharlieT]

 

The CPS sentencing guide states it is mandatory.

 

If anyone's interested/bored, here's the list of trouble and the subsequent sentence you can get for yourself for being naughty with guns. 'Technical' offences relating to S1 & S2 firearms as being discussed here seem to attract a 6 month sentence or a fine;

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a034

 

As Ginger Cat says, imprisonment is not mandatory.

 

How can it be if, as you quite rightly say, a fine can be levied.

[Breastman]

 

As Ginger Cat says, imprisonment is not mandatory.

 

How can it be if, as you quite rightly say, a fine can be levied.

Because of the stupid way this forum quotes (i.e. only the post your quoting appears and not any posts they have previously quoted), it knocked off the reference to Section 5 offences, for which there is a mandatory sentence - see the link provided.

 

The fines i mentioned are for offences relating to S1 & S2 guns

[serpent887]

Thanks for all the replies. I took the gun to a gunsmith who performed the work professionally, competently and within the law.

 

All sorted and legal.

 

Thanks for help.

[Danger-Mouse]

If you're in the hide with a mate who has his S1 shotgun and he says 'fancy a go?' Is anyone going to say 'no, it's against the law'. Seriously?

 

I know someone who turned down a go with an S1 for that reason.

[Exudate]

I know someone who turned down a go with an S1 for that reason.

But if your mate is stood right next to you, isn't he supervising you with his S1 shotgun, so all is legal?

[mossy835]

dont we have some silly laws,

[Scully]

 

I know someone who turned down a go with an S1 for that reason.

Well there you go then; there's always an exception to the rule. In all my years of shooting I've never met anyone who has turned down the opportunity.

dont we have some silly laws,

🙂 We certainly do.

[Danger-Mouse]

But if your mate is stood right next to you, isn't he supervising you with his S1 shotgun, so all is legal?

 

Nope, it's not allowed. You would both be breaking the law. That's why at the practical shooting events/clubs they have S2 competitions alongside the S1 events. Even a club can't loan you an S1 to shoot.

 

Well there you go then; there's always an exception to the rule. In all my years of shooting I've never met anyone who has turned down the opportunity.

 

 

Indeed there is I agree though that 99% would happily have a bash given the opportunity (myself included).

[CharlieT]

 

Nope, it's not allowed. You would both be breaking the law. That's why at the practical shooting events/clubs they have S2 competitions alongside the S1 events. Even a club can't loan you an S1 to shoot.

 

 

Indeed there is I agree though that 99% would happily have a bash given the opportunity (myself included).

 

Does that law apply to using a S1 shotgun in the field in the same situation one would borrow a rifle, because if so I would be interested to know which law prohibits it.

[Breastman]

You coming at it from the wrong angle. The problem with section 1 shotguns and long barrelled pistols/revolvers is there isn't an exemption in law which allows a person to possess one other than owning a certificate that covers that specific gun. The exemptions in law that permit you to borrow a persons shotgun or rifle (i.e. The "estate rifle" exemption and "gun club" exemption do not cover S1 shotguns and LBPs i.e. The law only states 'rifles, muzzle loading pistols and shotguns (S2)'.

 

It's extremely annoying to practical shooters (and anyone else that uses them) as a simple change of wording would fix it. i.e. changing "rifle, muzzlelading pistol and shotgun" to simply "firearm"

[CharlieT]

Thank you, that now explains it so that even I can understand.