Gunman Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Too often in my experience , people particularly those who have come into shooting rather than have been brought up in a shooting environment , who need all the "extras " . They have been convinced that this or that make of choke will make them shoot better ,that they need adjustable stocks 34" barrels etc.etc.etc. These myths often propounded by shooting media getting nice revenue from advertisers [When did last read a bad revue in a shooting mag?] and by "shooting instructors" who have the attitude that I like so should you , working for grounds that are only to willing to sell you what they have on the rack . Lets get back to basics , for game shooting you do not need super long barrels , magnum chambers ,super high velocity 36 gram loads , high ribs etc.etc.etc. . What you need is a certain amount of shooting ability and lots of practice ,add little help from an old game shooter and thats it .Oh yes and the humility to admit when you miss its you , nothing else . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well said gunman. Especially like the last bit. Imo most birds are missed by human error not the gunfit length of barrell height of comb choke or any other variable. If one can accept a miss for what it is and not dwell on it you will hit more 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Too often in my experience , people particularly those who have come into shooting rather than have been brought up in a shooting environment , who need all the "extras " . They have been convinced that this or that make of choke will make them shoot better ,that they need adjustable stocks 34" barrels etc.etc.etc. These myths often propounded by shooting media getting nice revenue from advertisers [When did last read a bad revue in a shooting mag?] and by "shooting instructors" who have the attitude that I like so should you , working for grounds that are only to willing to sell you what they have on the rack . Lets get back to basics , for game shooting you do not need super long barrels , magnum chambers ,super high velocity 36 gram loads , high ribs etc.etc.etc. . What you need is a certain amount of shooting ability and lots of practice ,add little help from an old game shooter and thats it .Oh yes and the humility to admit when you miss its you , nothing else . Well posted. All too true. Like the Old Boy said: "What's hit is history, what's missed is mystery.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Had a aya no 4 26" was a ok gun, part ex it about 18 months ago only downside I wound even using 28gr cart used to feel it on the shoulder, ok for walking round the farm odd shots here and there but a day on the pigeons then no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Has the shooting population got weak and feeble. Years ago the standard cartridge was Eley Grand Prix in 1-1/16 >>> 32 grn or maximum in 1-1/8 >> 34 grm. That was pretty much all that was about from the local ironmonger. No one complained about "They kick like mules" and stuff like that. I bet that Archie Coates used plenty of grand Prix and pigeon cooperative cartridges in his time and all he had was a tatty Tweed jacket to absorb the recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Has the shooting population got weak and feeble. Years ago the standard cartridge was Eley Grand Prix in 1-1/16 >>> 32 grn or maximum in 1-1/8 >> 34 grm. That was pretty much all that was about from the local ironmonger. No one complained about "They kick like mules" and stuff like that. I bet that Archie Coates used plenty of grand Prix and pigeon cooperative cartridges in his time and all he had was a tatty Tweed jacket to absorb the recoil. I think in fact Grand Prix is 30 gramme (or 1 1/16 oz) - see https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/grand-prix and 32 gramme is 1 1/8 oz. You are right that these were the 'standard' loads, although the 1 oz (28g) Impax was also very popular. However, I think cartridges were a little 'slower' then, so they may have been a little softer on recoil. Grand Prix is quoted as 1296 fps whereas Hull Imperial (my current 'go to ' game cartridge) is 1450 fps - nd this is not a 'hot performance' cartridge Edited June 9, 2017 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Yep, I got the figures wrong. But the general drift is right. Back when, nobody that I knew used impax or 1 ounce loads. Not that 1/16 of an ounce would make much difference to hitting the target. I remember a mate telling with some glee that he had got a box of maximums which would really reach out there and give the pigeons some stick. This made my mate appear to be a superior being armed with a 12 bore laser gun. No pigeon would be safe within visual distance. A box of These were classed as blooming expensive and not to be be splogged off randomly at passing sparrows. 1 cartridge fired Was required to return 1 pheasant or duck. For all my nice guns I generally reach for the AyA #4 with 28" heavily pitted barrels. Edited June 9, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Many years go I used to shoot with my only gun I owned ,which was a Spanish side by side bought from littlewoods catalogue mail order . The gun was described as 26 inch barrels with half and full choke . I used this gun for every thing ,game ,fowling , pigeons and clays . A gun I learnt to shoot very well with . I had the gun for about 5 years and decided to part exchange it for some thing better a miroku ore .when I took the gun into the shop for exchange they measured the barrels and they were actually cylinder and improved cylinder . I had shot the gun for 5 years believing it was half and full . Yes barrel length and chokes are all in the mind , either you can shoot or you carnt . I bet digweed would see us all off with my old Spanish side by side , Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 A few decades ago all the choice was Eley , Winchester GB or Rottwell and some Hull. Mostly 6/7 shot and 4 for Hares. Everyone just got on with it and used whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Thinking I might need a longer weapon What do you base this theory on? How long do the barrels have to be to ensure a hit on the target? As long as the barrel is legal and about 24+ inches long the Powder will burn to achieve Velocity and as long as you put the lead on the target then it will fall. if you don't achieve this then you won't take the target. Not unless it accidentally flys into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 I still have some Winnie GB's. Hard hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Yep, I got the figures wrong. But the general drift is right. I completely agree with the point made. Like you, I have a choice of guns in the cabinet, s/s and o/u, but virtually always use a 40 year old AyA 28" s/s, which I think is improved and quarter. Hull Comp X 21g for clays and Hull Imperial Game 26 or 28 g for game. Both combinations work very well if pointed in the right direction at 'sensible' range - and are very pleasant to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Had a aya no 4 26" was a ok gun, part ex it about 18 months ago only downside I wound even using 28gr cart used to feel it on the shoulder, ok for walking round the farm odd shots here and there but a day on the pigeons then no just shows....have the same gun and no probs with recoil using Impax,Hull Imperial,Proper 28gr Ultimate Game,Cheddite Universal 28gr and various 24gr for clays when I take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Personal choice in my view for general sporting bird shooting. Clays may be a different thing where a consistent swing on known birds is required. Way back in the 70s I had a kind friend lend me his Churchill and yes, I killed a lot of game with that little gun that year, but personally I just didn't like the very short barrels. There again I was at the time shooting a lot of clays and used 30 inch barrels on my guns for that, 26 for skeet. Today I prefer 30 inch barrels. Let's be honest the majority of shots most of us get on average will be 30 to 35yrds and a 25, 26 inch barrels will deal with those, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Let's be honest the majority of shots most of us get on average will be 30 to 35yrds and a 25, 26 inch barrels will deal with those, no problem. This is very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 I completely agree with the point made. Like you, I have a choice of guns in the cabinet, s/s and o/u, but virtually always use a 40 year old AyA 28" s/s, which I think is improved and quarter. Hull Comp X 21g for clays and Hull Imperial Game 26 or 28 g for game. Both combinations work very well if pointed in the right direction at 'sensible' range - and are very pleasant to shoot. Come on we can't agree on everything. We appear to be the same person. We got to find something to argue about. What about >> do you think that if we tried out long barrelled stove pipe guns we would hit everything and think wow I'll get rid of all of the short stuff. Or would we think naah, I'll stick with the short? I will start a new thread to ask the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Come on we can't agree on everything. We appear to be the same person. We got to find something to argue about. Not argue, "constructive discussion" ....... but we should also keep 'on topic', so that this belongs as another thread is another thing on which we agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Debate. Yeah. Thats it. I went and started another new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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