Dave-G Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Could someone explain to me in plain English why the highest number of votes and most seats doesn't necessarily enable a party to form a government on its own? This is the second time in very recent years the UK has been screwed over by the need to have a coalition of two parties with differing values - one of which attracted a minor poll result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 To put it in simple terms, Let's say there are 20 seats that make up parliament, Party A wins 9 Party B wins 6 (The opposition) Party C wins 3 Party D wins 2 If the winning party (A) wants to pass something they need at least 11 votes, they only have 9 so if they can form an alliance with either C or D they win. If they go it alone they risk losing votes by 9 votes to 11 That sums it up, you need a majority otherwise you run the risk of losing every vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 The two events are not connected, in theory anyway. When you vote you are (technically) only voting for your local MP The idea that you are voting for the party leader is actually not correct but of course that has become the real issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Here is another question then, what happens to the MPs that loose there seats? Sure I have read it somewhere but been to many threads going to find it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me matt Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Here is another question then, what happens to the MPs that loose there seats? They have to stand up all day 😂 and pop along to lost property at lunch time lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) To put it in simple terms, Let's say there are 20 seats that make up parliament, Party A wins 9 Party B wins 6 (The opposition) Party C wins 3 Party D wins 2 If the winning party (A) wants to pass something they need at least 11 votes, they only have 9 so if they can form an alliance with either C or D they win. If they go it alone they risk losing votes by 9 votes to 11 That sums it up, you need a majority otherwise you run the risk of losing every vote Thank you Shaun, that is a clear explanation. I now get that the others can gang up on the party with 9 votes to thwart them. It seems wrong to me - but I'm Cornish. My thinking is that party A got the most votes so they won - sort of like the one who ended up with the highest amount of 20 Quid has a bigger pile than any of the rest so has more financial clout and the others would have to share their funds and claim to ownership just to stop A from buying something worth £9. If it were say a shirt at £9 the guy with £9 gets to buy it. Edited June 12, 2017 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 The rules are complicated according to the reason they lost their seat. If its a mid term election, as this one was, I believe they keep their pay until the term would have ended. It depends on their age as well, they do get a pension if it is past their retirement age. Otherwise they get a deferred pension They get a resettlement allowance on top, to cover moving expenses etc. That's about £30K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Well that was a dyslexic moment. EDIT: (Of mine) Edited June 12, 2017 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Could someone explain to me in plain English why the highest number of votes and most seats doesn't necessarily enable a party to form a government on its own? This is the second time in very recent years the UK has been screwed over by the need to have a coalition of two parties with differing values - one of which attracted a minor poll result. They can form a government on their own they will just lack the ultimate power to force whatever laws, rules and acts they want on us without holding the majority of seats in the commons so they cosy up to some minor party to form a co-dependent relationship, this means the smaller party they have cosied up to can in effect make demands upon them in return for their support and hold them to ransom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I don't do politics but it all sounds naff to me. Surely if a party wins even by a small margin then whatever they say goes. If the other parties have a say in stuff then what's the point. We may as well have a sort of forum made up of many parties and fleche it out. Although by the sound of it that is pretty much what happens so again, what's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Some form of proportional representation is probably the fairest way of doing it look back when UKIP got over 4 million votes but no MPs then you have to think that some on the MPs in Scotland and other places get voted in with only small numbers of people voting for them. it can go from 56k up to 72k voting in there area but then that has to be divided between all of the potential MPs that could be up to six or more so the winner could end up with only 10k voting for him / her that makes UKIPS 4m votes and no one MP look stupid but that is how it works in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Cheers Vince, I'm sure I read something along those lines but thought I'd imagined it, your out but still going to get a big lump of cash o and it's not your fault so we'll just keep paying you for the next three years, sounds more like the deal football managers get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I don't do politics but it all sounds naff to me. Surely if a party wins even by a small margin then whatever they say goes. If the other parties have a say in stuff then what's the point. We may as well have a sort of forum made up of many parties and fleche it out. Although by the sound of it that is pretty much what happens so again, what's the point. What you're suggesting is essentially a benign/democratic dictatorship. If the party in power decided to abolish elections under your system that would be viable. Other parties have involvement because not all Government proposals/Bills will receive 100% support from the party that forwards them to the house and that leaves room for policies to be voted down. Our political system and democracy is far from perfect but as yet no one has been able to come up with anything better. PR may be a fairer system but we chose not to go for it in the referendum held about it. I think probably because whilst it's more representative it also leads to more hung parliaments and makes passing legislation more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I understand now, makes sense I spose cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 What you're suggesting is essentially a benign/democratic dictatorship. If the party in power decided to abolish elections under your system that would be viable. Other parties have involvement because not all Government proposals/Bills will receive 100% support from the party that forwards them to the house and that leaves room for policies to be voted down. Our political system and democracy is far from perfect but as yet no one has been able to come up with anything better. PR may be a fairer system but we chose not to go for it in the referendum held about it. I think probably because whilst it's more representative it also leads to more hung parliaments and makes passing legislation more difficult. Agreed. Although we have had two 'minority' governments in recent times the first past the post system does lend itself to giving more majority governments than PR does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 There are countries..e.g. Italy which have this multi minority party problem and guess what, they are constantly calling elections and squabbling between each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Proportional representation sounds simple but actually its proved to be a recipe for deadlock as you say There are countries..e.g. Italy which have this multi minority party problem and guess what, they are constantly calling elections and squabbling between each other.n Edited June 12, 2017 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) The real problem with the first past the post system is there is not much point in a people voting if you do not agree with the standing MP in your area for me it is the conservatives that get in with big majorities 20.000. in other areas it will be labour or the libs that are top dog so that means that for me and many other people there is not much point in bothering to vote except as a protest vote for what good that does I do not no but at least as with the UKIP people they can say X amount of people voted for this or that party. Edited June 12, 2017 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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