Benthejockey Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 The law is supposed to be there as an all encompassing safe guard for the whole of society. In reality it's more like a constraint for the vast proportion of society, I don't even mean carrying some sort of knife/gun/club/spray/taser for self defence. The firearms licensing system is an example of those constraints. As a law abiding citizen I will most likely never get to own or shoot a hand gun yet Robbie Rotten the wannabe gangster with enough money and the right contacts can get himself a desert eagle and go and blast holes in people. They could outlaw everything from helicopter gunships to pointy sticks and we as law abiding citizens would go along and hand over our pointy sticks and the people with no regard for the law would chuckle and go home and sharpen their pointy sticks and stick two fingers up to the law. The good thing about the baddies carrying knives is that a vast proportion of people taking a knife to a fight do actually end up getting stabbed themselves and when they fight amongst themselves they tend to eliminate 50% of the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Practically, I often think a fire extinguisher might make a good weapon in time of need. There are a lot of them about, a quick squirt of CO2 would incapacitate followed by a biff to the chops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Practically, I often think a fire extinguisher might make a good weapon in time of need. There are a lot of them about, a quick squirt of CO2 would incapacitate followed by a biff to the chops. Like I've said; it doesn't have to be a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Practically, I often think a fire extinguisher might make a good weapon in time of need. There are a lot of them about, a quick squirt of CO2 would incapacitate followed by a biff to the chops. A little conspicuous lugging it around though - wouldn't it spoil the line of your suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 With respect a fire extinguisher or car or hammer or anything else were not made and indeed sold for the purpose of killing. A sword is made for a specific job unless its a dress sword or a fencing sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I am struggling to understand amy justification or rather attempt t justify legalizing the carryng of weapons for defence. I would have no problem with law abiding gun owners carrying a sword stick or indeed a firearm as I know we are all totally sane and upstanding citizens and said sword stick would only cone out in the event of a terrorist attack in the city centre when aforesaid law abiding gun owner suddenly becomes capable of shoving three feet of stiletto blade into someone. However, what about me scroat bag down the pub who has an argument with another bloke over who has the best football team, violence ensues fuelled by the local 3% abv beer and Mr scroat bag un sheathes his sword from its stick and murders the other scroat. Stick was legally carried and only for self defence... Those of you even attempting to justify legally carried offensive weapons for personal defence are on another planet. You DO know that quite a number of FAC's are issued PURELY for the purposes of SELF DEFENCE, don't you?? Maybe you can sort this anomaly out & inform these FAC holders that they've got no real need to arm themselves in order to keep safe. Let us all know how you get on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 With respect I am talking about "man on the street" you presumably are referring to security staff and the like who are placed in a completely different work place than man in the street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 With respect a fire extinguisher or car or hammer or anything else were not made and indeed sold for the purpose of killing. A sword is made for a specific job unless its a dress sword or a fencing sword. Defending oneself doesn't necessarily involve killing. Mace can be an effective self defence weapon but we aren't even authorised for that. Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Defending oneself doesn't necessarily involve killing. Mace can be an effective self defence weapon but we aren't even authorised for that. Pathetic. Good luck with using a stiletto sword stick to injure rather than kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Defending oneself doesn't necessarily involve killing. Mace can be an effective self defence weapon but we aren't even authorised for that. Pathetic. When working in Manchester with a load of 'new arrivals' we had a talk about self defence from the local constabulary as there had previously been issues with people thinking it was ok to carry knives or mace. The conclusion was if you feel that vulnerable carry hair spray, some brands deliver a well directed jet which is supposedly just as effective. Should you be challenged on it claim to be fabulously gay and terribly vain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 With respect I am talking about "man on the street" you presumably are referring to security staff and the like who are placed in a completely different work place than man in the street Criminals, terrorists and street goblins don't target those they know to be armed; for obvious reasons. It's the 'man in the street' who needs to be given the choice. Good luck with using a stiletto sword stick to injure rather than kill. Give me strength! When working in Manchester with a load of 'new arrivals' we had a talk about self defence from the local constabulary as there had previously been issues with people thinking it was ok to carry knives or mace. The conclusion was if you feel that vulnerable carry hair spray, some brands deliver a well directed jet which is supposedly just as effective. Should you be challenged on it claim to be fabulously gay and terribly vain. Hadn't considered hairspray; I can see how an eyeful of that could be painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Deodorant and a lighter would give someone a really bad day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I agree to disagree on this one. I am respectfully out as I have said my piece. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 I have an antique sword stick. It's locked in a cabinet and never comes out. It's a specified weapon and is more controlled than an offensive weapon. More details can be found here. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/186911/Knives_and_offensive_weapons_information_GDS_FAQ.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 I am struggling to understand amy justification or rather attempt t justify legalizing the carryng of weapons for defence. I would have no problem with law abiding gun owners carrying a sword stick or indeed a firearm as I know we are all totally sane and upstanding citizens and said sword stick would only cone out in the event of a terrorist attack in the city centre when aforesaid law abiding gun owner suddenly becomes capable of shoving three feet of stiletto blade into someone. However, what about me scroat bag down the pub who has an argument with another bloke over who has the best football team, violence ensues fuelled by the local 3% abv beer and Mr scroat bag un sheathes his sword from its stick and murders the other scroat. Stick was legally carried and only for self defence... Those of you even attempting to justify legally carried offensive weapons for personal defence are on another planet. One less scrote on the streets so I'm happy with that 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 One of my very good friends was threatened by a neighbour, armed with a baseball bat, following a junior disagreement. The neighbour concerned walked back to his house, brought out a baseball bat. In the aftermath, a Policewoman said that it was not an offensive weapon, as the neighbour had "held it in a defensive position". I was party to the aftermath and told her that her knowledge of the law was laughable. The Police took no action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 I have an antique sword stick. It's locked in a cabinet and never comes out. It's a specified weapon and is more controlled than an offensive weapon. More details can be found here. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/186911/Knives_and_offensive_weapons_information_GDS_FAQ.pdf I had a good friend who was the one time curator of the Crown Jewels in the Tower of London. He was a historian and avid collector of all manner of antique arms and armour. None of which were locked away anywhere other than in his house. Amongst his vast collection He had two sword sticks, one of which was a cruciform blade made by Wilkinson Sword in 1911, and retailed through a Pall Mall address. The other was of Damascus steel and double edged. He often took either on his walks into town to collect his groceries etc; totally unnecessary but he'd got into the habit whilst living in London. As he received a classical education at Eton, which in those days included fencing of all disciplines epee, foil and sabre, he certainly knew how to use them. He never did, but they were always there....just in case. We have fire extinguishers....just in case; we wear seat belts....just in case; we take out car and household insurance....just in case. But by law are forbidden even to carry pepper spray....just in case. The quote underneath Wymberleys avatar on this forum sums it up nicely on my opinion. The law is an *** and deserves ignoring. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime but hopefully one day ( circumstances will probably dictate it ) this nation will grow back it's testicles. As an aside; I have numerous bayonets in my collection; none are locked away; they simply hang on the walls. I don't live in fear of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 With respect I am talking about "man on the street" you presumably are referring to security staff and the like who are placed in a completely different work place than man in the street Nope. Average man in the street going about their daily life....NOT spurious "security staff" (= not aware of ANY such armed security in the UK!) Nice when people do research before assuming an opinion. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) I had a good friend who was the one time curator of the Crown Jewels in the Tower of London. He was a historian and avid collector of all manner of antique arms and armour.. Fred? Edited July 8, 2017 by saddler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Nice when people do research before assuming an opinion. ... None taken 😒 So you are telling me that there are normal folk granted a licence to carry a gun for self defence in the UK. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 . He often took either on his walks into town to collect his groceries etc; totally unnecessary but he'd got into the habit whilst living in London. As he received a classical education at Eton, which in those days included fencing of all disciplines epee, foil and sabre, he certainly knew how to use them. He never did, but they were always there....just in case. . I bet your friend is going to love you for putting that online. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 None taken 😒 So you are telling me that there are normal folk granted a licence to carry a gun for self defence in the UK. ?? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 None taken So you are telling me that there are normal folk granted a licence to carry a gun for self defence in the UK. ?? Depends how you define normal, i have worked with what i would regard as 'normal people' licenced to carry handguns for self defence. Are you defining normal as having no added reason beyond anyone else to carry a firearm for self defence though? My understanding of the matter in the states is that allowing weapons for self defence leads to those who feel vulnerable due to percieved threats arming themselves. A larger proportion of these people then tend to over react and harm people who were not a threat than those who benefit from arming themselves. As such the over all impact on society is for the worse. If as per the above mentioned individuals I was advised by the police to carry a personal protection weapon I probably would, otherwise i think it is a recipe for disaster. If people feel that threatened they should stick to hairspray so they can do reasonably limited damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Interested as to the reasons these people were granted side arms for self defence. Normal I define as people who are not in the forces or involved in personal protection / security Yes. Can you point me towards evidence of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Fred?Martin.I bet your friend is going to love you for putting that online. 😞He won't know; he died an old man about 12 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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