Gordon R Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Munzy - interesting post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Am I the only person who thinks "so what"? It's Spain not Scotland. i think a lot of us think like that to a certain extent..............IF Catalonia seperates from Spain it would bring Spain plumeting down ...as its already on its knees now...then the EU ..(i think )would get involved and start to splash the cash about which it dosnt have anymore as we are pulling out...........it proberly wont affect us...but it will effect the EU states... thats what i rekon anyway........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 i think a lot of us think like that to a certain extent..............IF Catalonia seperates from Spain it would bring Spain plumeting down ...as its already on its knees now...then the EU ..(i think )would get involved and start to splash the cash about which it dosnt have anymore as we are pulling out...........it proberly wont affect us...but it will effect the EU states... thats what i rekon anyway........... I think you're right, it won't effect us as we won't need to foot the bill but I think it may effect us in other ways. Cataluña breaking away will cause a financial disaster for Spain (and Cataluña) which the EU will need to intervene in and it might actually assist the UK in Brexit. If Spain tumbles and other EU countries need to start bailing them out with money they don't have then a few more countries are surely going to be asking whether they too might be better off on their own rather than carrying the less stable economies of Europe. I guess it could just as easily cut the other way; the EU stepping in to support Spain might show the rest of Europe how much safer they are being in the EU club. I'm not clever enough to figure this stuff out but I guess what is clear is that if we are out of the EU we won't be contributing to a bailout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I think you're right, it won't effect us as we won't need to foot the bill but I think it may effect us in other ways. Cataluña breaking away will cause a financial disaster for Spain (and Cataluña) which the EU will need to intervene in and it might actually assist the UK in Brexit. If Spain tumbles and other EU countries need to start bailing them out with money they don't have then a few more countries are surely going to be asking whether they too might be better off on their own rather than carrying the less stable economies of Europe. I guess it could just as easily cut the other way; the EU stepping in to support Spain might show the rest of Europe how much safer they are being in the EU club. I'm not clever enough to figure this stuff out but I guess what is clear is that if we are out of the EU we won't be contributing to a bailout. Can the EU realistically afford to, without the UK? The EU will already have to subsidise the absent UK's contributions, without this extra cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Can the EU realistically afford to, without the UK? The EU will already have to subsidise the absent UK's contributions, without this extra cost. I don't see how they could afford to but I don't understand it enough! If the EU can't keep Spain afloat then surely the whole EU project weakens and again this must be good for Brexit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I don't see how they could afford to but I don't understand it enough! If the EU can't keep Spain afloat then surely the whole EU project weakens and again this must be good for Brexit? Probably why the EU are keeping unusually quiet on the subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 There is a very real possibility it could lead to civil unrest and possibly even civil war in Spain. A great deal of our fresh food comes from Spain so yes it will have a very big effect on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Probably end up a basket case economy like Greece, bail out after bail out. But.. It doesn't have to be like that, if they just negotiate sensibly, all this hard line stuff from Madrid will end very badly, for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 If Catalonia splits from Spain would they be excluded from the EU? If so would that lead to a 'hard border'? If a large proportion of Spain's GDP is from Catalonia then Spain would become another Greece or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 It'a a complete can of worms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Even without the EU and any attendent treaties or obligations that may or may not exist as part of that the UK are very closely integrated with Spain. Anybody bank with Santander? Anybody fly through a BAA airport owned by Ferrovial? Anybody a customer of Scottish Power owned by Iberdrola? Maybe you have stocks and shares in these firms or maybe your pension fund invest in them and you don't realise. 3 easy examples from the top of my head to illustrate that the EU doesn't matter, there are lots more examples. We have a huge amount of ties to spain, not least Gibralter on the southern tip and the 300,000 plus UK nationals living there. What about the travel agents that sell around 13m trips to Spain each year? I daresay with a little bit of research you could discover what the size of our finacial institutions exposure to Spanish based investment or lending is (it will be quite high) If this issue becomes ugly, and it has a very real potential to do that, have no doubt the impact felt within the UK will be significant and very real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Heavy handed or not, they were not at voting booths put in place for a legal ‘vote’ but some makeshift ballot boxes- can anyone but the organisers of these condone an illegal vote. Did the EU ever cast opinion on Police action in the UK such as during the 2011 London Riots, minors strikes etc? Nope, thought not. You don’t like it when they ‘meddle’ and now your moaning because they are not ‘meddling’ Because all Spain had to do was let them vote and all the way through the build up tell them that it wouldn't be taken into consideration, instead they went in heavy handed (massive understatement there) and MUST have broke European laws around their human rights... but it boils down to the EU needing the money that comes from Catalan so allowed Spain to quash this using any means Edited October 23, 2017 by Deker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 If Catalonia splits from Spain would they be excluded from the EU? If so would that lead to a 'hard border'? If a large proportion of Spain's GDP is from Catalonia then Spain would become another Greece or worse. Exactly, the EU can not afford to lose our money AND the share going in from Catalonia.... and if they let Catalonia stay in after any split then they'd have to accept Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Exactly, the EU can not afford to lose our money AND the share going in from Catalonia.... and if they let Catalonia stay in after any split then they'd have to accept Scotland And there again, maybe not. The UK as a whole voted for Scotland to remain in the UK and it will again. Wee Gilly Krankie has lost votes and support for her extreme measures for a long time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 And there again, maybe not. The UK as a whole voted for Scotland to remain in the UK and it will again. Wee Gilly Krankie has lost votes and support for her extreme measures for a long time now. I hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Because all Spain had to do was let them vote and all the way through the build up tell them that it wouldn't be taken into consideration, instead they went in heavy handed (massive understatement there) and MUST have broke European laws around their human rights... but it boils down to the EU needing the money that comes from Catalan so allowed Spain to quash this using any means No it's not money with the EU, they are largely socialists so can always borrow more. It is all about identity. As soon as a region or indeed country shows a strong sense of identity and nationalism it rings the alarm bells in the EU. They want a federal european superstate and people identifying as individual regions or countries is seen as opposition to this plan. That is why the EU is so pro free movement of labour and mass migration, they want to dilute and destroy any sense of nationalism in member countries. There is only one flag for them the EU flag. Catalonia spells trouble for the EU vision so Spain will get a free hand to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 No it's not money with the EU, they are largely socialists so can always borrow more. It is all about identity. As soon as a region or indeed country shows a strong sense of identity and nationalism it rings the alarm bells in the EU. They want a federal european superstate and people identifying as individual regions or countries is seen as opposition to this plan. That is why the EU is so pro free movement of labour and mass migration, they want to dilute and destroy any sense of nationalism in member countries. There is only one flag for them the EU flag. Catalonia spells trouble for the EU vision so Spain will get a free hand to deal with it. Exactly right. The EU has nothing to say about the treatment of Catalonia, because of this very issue. Their own rules prevent them from staying in the EU after independence ,even if they wanted to. Its rank hypocrisy that there is 'nothing to see here' from Brussels. I guarantee if the boot were on the other foot, and Spain wanted to leave the EU and the Catalans wanted to stay, they would be an outcry of injustice from Junker at al. Look how they behaved over Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Exactly right. The EU has nothing to say about the treatment of Catalonia, because of this very issue. Their own rules prevent them from staying in the EU after independence ,even if they wanted to. Its rank hypocrisy that there is 'nothing to see here' from Brussels. I guarantee if the boot were on the other foot, and Spain wanted to leave the EU and the Catalans wanted to stay, they would be an outcry of injustice from Junker at al. Look how they behaved over Scotland. So true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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