How do you cater for a long distance shot with rib in sight?

[ips]

dan

I totally understand your question and your frustration we have all been there, we have all spent many thousands in the endeavour to find the Holley grail of guns we have all had sleepless nights analysing everything. I have always been very interested in the see bead not see bead dilema and the comb height in relation to poi dilema and after 40 yrs of shooting in one form or another I have concluded to a degree its all tosh. If you can see some rib when dry mounting and your eye is central to the rib, and if you can replicate this gunmount time and time again without any conscious effort, and if the gun feels nice in the hand then you will shoot well with it but only if you forget all about it and concentrate on the target an nothing else.

as an example and a totally true story. I was loading / minding an inexperienced gun on a driven day yesterday, first drive i had to let him get on with it and as long as he was safe work out what was wrong. He shot 5 for 43 on that drive. I told him he was analysing every shot and as a result was hanging on every shot. I suggested that he looked for the beak and focus on nothing else and to mount later so as not to track the bird and let the shot happen. He went on to shoot the next four drives with a kill to shot ratio of 1 to 5 or less which for an inexperienced shooter and after the first drive was Imo highly respectable to say the least. My point is if you can remove conscious thought you will shoot much better and save a fortune.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I think you have something there.

 

I have been shooting in various forms for 40 years too!

[ips]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I think you have something there.

 

I have been shooting in various forms for 40 years too!

if we knew then what we know now we would be richer and would have been better shooters earlier in our careers....but we didn't have interweb in the olden days and only rich kids had coaching ??

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Amen to that!

[wymberley]

12 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

My point is that this is valid at certain distances is it not? Since I'll be shooting higher on closer clays?

Basically, I was shooting with no rib, and hitting the clays left, right and centre. But noticed on the further clays, the idea of blotting out a clay from a distance didn't work since I needed to see the path of the clay I was trying to shoot! So I started mounting my gun to see a bit of rib, and coincidentally it's more comfortable. But now it's at an angle, which I think is giving me more problems.

The general consensus here is to stop thinking about it and just shoot, but from a practical sense what does that mean I do next time I go out? I'm even starting to annoy myself now, and it seems like I'm being stubborn with this for the sake of it but I'm just thinking, how should the gun fit? What is my sight picture and where is that clay in my sight picture when I pull the trigger? I reckon they're very real questions.

I've had a few lessons, when I seen no rib I done well on them, so no faults were picked up on - but it wasn't ideal making the clays disappear on every target (as opposed to just the driven/rising ones).

 

-------------------------

Btw, thanks for all the replies so far! Appreciate the wisdom of shooters that are obviously better than me, I don't mean to seem impatient, just trying to work out what's what.

No. It's more than likely that if you go have your gun fitted, once the fitter is happy with your mount, you'll start off at a pattern plate from 16 yards. The reason for this is that all things being equal your eye is - give or take - one yard from the muzzle. So, 16 to 1. How much would you need to adjust the drop on the stock to alter the pattern centre 1" at that 16 yards. There - it's not a black art after all (although it's far from being simple in application). Let's say you consistentlt shoot 1" high at 16 yards, how high will that be  at 32 yards?

[Scully]

No one can fit a gun to someone who doesn’t have a consistent mount, whether that mount be good or bad. 

I practised my mount in a mirror for years, and still do. You can do this with an empty gun in front of a mirror. Close your eyes, mount your gun then open your right eye ( assuming you’re right handed ) if your mount is correct and your gun fits and you don’t have dominant eye issues, you should be able to see your eye in the mirror sitting just above the top barrel. 

See a good coach; he/she will literally point you ( and your gun ) in the right direction. 

[Scully]

25 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Obviously a red dot would sort all the above issues the op is having .but they have been covered in another thread last month 

Yes. That’s why we all have them. ?

[ips]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

No one can fit a gun to someone who doesn’t have a consistent mount, whether that mount be good or bad. 

 

 

wise words,

I never advise new shooters to spend money on gun fitting until they have a consistent mount with a gun something like

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Stop giving the secret away!

[grrclark]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

No one can fit a gun to someone who doesn’t have a consistent mount, whether that mount be good or bad. 

I practised my mount in a mirror for years, and still do. You can do this with an empty gun in front of a mirror. Close your eyes, mount your gun then open your right eye ( assuming you’re right handed ) if your mount is correct and your gun fits and you don’t have dominant eye issues, you should be able to see your eye in the mirror sitting just above the top barrel. 

See a good coach; he/she will literally point you ( and your gun ) in the right direction. 

Very much this.

The mount is only part of it as well.  If your body line is wrong, your hold point wrong, you have no room to swing or a multitude of other things then even if your eye sits perfect and centre above the rib every single time then you wont be consistent in executing the shot.

[wymberley]

14 minutes ago, wymberley said:

No. It's more than likely that if you go have your gun fitted, once the fitter is happy with your mount, you'll start off at a pattern plate from 16 yards. The reason for this is that all things being equal your eye is - give or take - one yard from the muzzle. So, 16 to 1. How much would you need to adjust the drop on the stock to alter the pattern centre 1" at that 16 yards. There - it's not a black art after all (although it's far from being simple in application). Let's say you consistently shoot 1" high at 16 yards, how high will that be  at 32 yards?

Yep, the fitter is unlikely to be happy unless the mount is consistent.

[welshwarrior]

Gave up reading that after seeing far to much over thinking IPS nailed it look at the bird feel your leading don't look for lead and pull the trigger.  

 

Then practise practise practise 

[ips]

16 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yes. That’s why we all have them. ?

ha ? ?

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 

The mount is only part of it as well.  If your body line is wrong, your hold point wrong, you have no room to swing or a multitude of other things then even if your eye sits perfect and centre above the rib every single time then you wont be consistent in executing the shot.

This. Footwork is as important as every other factor in achieving a good and consistent mount.

9 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

Gave up reading that after seeing far to much over thinking IPS nailed it look at the bird feel your leading don't look for lead and pull the trigger.  

 

Then practise practise practise 

And this. 

[wymberley]

False Post

Trying to see if hitting "submit reply" activates the cancellation of "Notify me of replies" as my email inbox is now at bursting point. Tried earlier and it didn't work (cancel).

[Newbie to this]

10 minutes ago, wymberley said:

False Post

Trying to see if hitting "submit reply" activates the cancellation of "Notify me of replies" as my email inbox is now at bursting point. Tried earlier and it didn't work (cancel).

You can turn them off in account settings, then look for notification settings

Edited November 28, 2017 by Newbie to this

[wymberley]

Many thanks, Newbie. Will try that if necessary, but it seemed to have worked as it hasn't shown up your post.

[Walker570]

I know full well if I consciously look up my barrel when shooting a bird I will likely miss it. For one, it makes me 'poke' ..stop the swing. My concentration is focussed on the head of the bird. My grandfather taught me over 65 years ago.....head head head ..dead dead dead.   You don't aim a catapult and I killed/knocked down, quite a few woodpigeons flying with a catapult back in the early 50s when they broke out of a hedge row at close quarters, no time to aim there, your brain has to do the work.

When that woodcock flits across the ride, try 'aiming' and your lost, it has to be instinctive, split second decision.

[DanBettin]

Well I think it's only fair I post an update and concede.

I cancelled plans I had today and went to Worsley to redeem myself from a bad shoot on Sunday which I was losing sleep over.

 

Decided to totally forget about the gun and really try and fall back to instinct and pointing rather than thinking and aiming. I've just had the best shoot i've ever had, and worsley has some challenging birds.

 

Appreciate your replies, it's quite obvious my tendency to over think things takes away from my instinct to shoot well as you say. Thanks

[ips]

hate to say a collective "told you" but "told you" ?

pleased to hear your back on track. You now know the gun fits and shoots were you are looking so concentrate your efforts on "seeing the target" and forget everything else ?

 

well done ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, DanBettin said:

Well I think it's only fair I post an update and concede.

I cancelled plans I had today and went to Worsley to redeem myself from a bad shoot on Sunday which I was losing sleep over.

 

Decided to totally forget about the gun and really try and fall back to instinct and pointing rather than thinking and aiming. I've just had the best shoot i've ever had, and worsley has some challenging birds.

 

Appreciate your replies, it's quite obvious my tendency to over think things takes away from my instinct to shoot well as you say. Thanks

Glad it is working, now consolidate and move out to other grounds with harder target presentations!

[Scully]

Good for you. Enjoy your shooting. 

[Wb123]

If i have any idea what the gun is doing i tend to miss.

 

I would say lasers are very useful though. One really helped me get my mount more consistent, once the mount became relatively consistent everything else started to get easier and the temptation to try and aim the gun started to fade. 

[Gunman]

Best advice I can give is to not spend money on gadgets but spend it instead on a good shooting instructor . Gadgets do not make you shoot better nor will fancy chokes add ons or bolt ons . The thing never spoken of is shooting ability . Some folk can shoot just about anything some can not . Nothing will ever change that . So OK you need an edge and the only thing that will give you that improvement is accepting that you may only ever shoot to a certain standard and to get there will take time and dedication with the help of  an instructor skilled and experienced in the particular discipline you want .

I have been in this game for a long time and have seen assorts of gadgets come and go some come back again and again ,most are a waste of cash , some are just  pointless and counter productive IMHO.

Sorry rant over but please take note you and you alone are the one that hits the target , the gun and cartridge is only the tool you use to do so .

[welshwarrior]

5 hours ago, Gunman said:

Best advice I can give is to not spend money on gadgets but spend it instead on a good shooting instructor . Gadgets do not make you shoot better nor will fancy chokes add ons or bolt ons . The thing never spoken of is shooting ability . Some folk can shoot just about anything some can not . Nothing will ever change that . So OK you need an edge and the only thing that will give you that improvement is accepting that you may only ever shoot to a certain standard and to get there will take time and dedication with the help of  an instructor skilled and experienced in the particular discipline you want .

I have been in this game for a long time and have seen assorts of gadgets come and go some come back again and again ,most are a waste of cash , some are just  pointless and counter productive IMHO.

Sorry rant over but please take note you and you alone are the one that hits the target , the gun and cartridge is only the tool you use to do so .

Well said

 

As to some of the post in gunfit I chuckled but one thing is true if you don't have a consistent mount and come and see me I'll send you away even if Boss are paying me.