Who has responsibility

[RockySpears]

  if I am asked out on a shoot, not at a club or range, but over farm/moor/rough land, do I have to check if that land is suitable, or do I have to check ownership etc etc.

Basically I was invited out last minute, but could not make it and would not have had time to check anyway.  Can I say "He said it was OK", or do i have to check with the Police first?

  Is a piece of paper that appears to show permission good enough, or do I have to check myself?

  I'm a novice, so simple answers are appreciated,

RS

Edited January 26, 2018 by RockySpears

[Jaymo]

FAC or SGC is the first question?

If SGC or and Air rifle then the answer is ‘No’

For FAC it depends on your Certificates wording, coming down to the old ‘open or closed’ debate

[RockySpears]

  So I can go out with a shotgun any where?  No permissions needed?

  My FAC is for target shooting only.  So I need to have my FAC conditions changed if I am asked out Rabbiting I guess,

RS

[Newbie to this]

My FAC is conditioned for official club use only, I can only use my FAC rifles if at an official club meeting (can be any club I'm a member of) but not hunting. I believe (so don't take this as gospel) you can go hunting with him using his equipment, but not yours without getting the condition changed. My advice would be to drop the firearms team an email/phone call, and see what they say.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Newbie to this
Bad spelling

[spandit]

33 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

  So I can go out with a shotgun any where?  No permissions needed?

  My FAC is for target shooting only.  So I need to have my FAC conditions changed if I am asked out Rabbiting I guess,

RS

You still need permission to shoot with a shotgun but the land doesn't need to be cleared. If your FAC is for target shooting only then yes, you'll need to get it changed. Speak to your FEO, it's not an unusual request but best to be covered

[Jaymo]

Thanks Spandit, beat me to the reply

[RockySpears]

Cheers all, email dispatched.

  Does this count as a "Variation" and a request for another £20 ?

 

RS

[Dekers]

32 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

Cheers all, email dispatched.

  Does this count as a "Variation" and a request for another £20 ?

 

RS

Changing conditions is not a variation, there should be no charge.

Put very simply a variation is a change of guns.

You will need to show good reason just the same if you want a change from Target to Field work

[spandit]

If you have an invite to go hunting then that's good reason. Don't see why they'd refuse it but keep us posted

[AYA117]

You will need written permission for the calibre that you intend to use and the ground must be passed by the police for that calibre, Dorset still ask for this even with an open ticket, but only one piece of land no matter how many places you shoot!

[Tford]

12 hours ago, AYA117 said:

You will need written permission for the calibre that you intend to use and the ground must be passed by the police for that calibre, Dorset still ask for this even with an open ticket, but only one piece of land no matter how many places you shoot!

RE Dorset and open fac tickets - That’s just to prove the good reason element. Only got to prove good reason to own a rifle once (I.e one piece of suitable land). More land to shoot on is down to the open fac holder to determine as a safe/unsafe shot.

 

[RockySpears]

Result,

"In this case you will need to send in your FAC together with a letter / note requesting authority to shoot quarry /vermin on land. You will need to provide details of one of the pieces of land that you have permission to shoot on together with the owner details or person who has given you the permission and which firearms you want to use (I assume it will be your .22RF rifle).

 Once the condition has been added to your FAC you will be able to shoot on other land provided you have permission of the owner etc.

 If you want to use your S.1 shotgun to shoot clays we can also add a condition to allow you to do this.

 There is no fee for this."

 

  Thank to Cleveland FEOs

RS

 

  PS  If you want to invite me along ..... 

Edited February 1, 2018 by RockySpears

[Dave-G]

Also request to use expanding ammunition - which I don't think you can opt to use for target shooting. (I don't target shoot or use clubs so I may be incorrect about this)

[AYA117]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

Also request to use expanding ammunition - which I don't think you can opt to use for target shooting. (I don't target shoot or use clubs so I may be incorrect about this)

The law changed last year, you no longer need permission to use expanding ammunition.

[Dave-G]

Ah - cool. 

[oowee]

53.New section 11A(1) provides that a non-certificate holder (‘the borrower’) may borrow and possess a rifle or a shotgun from another person (‘the lender’) on private premises lawfully only if they meet the following four conditions and if, in the case of a rifle, the borrower is aged 17 or over: (i) Under new section 11A(2), the borrowing and possession are for either hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, and/or for shooting at artificial targets – under subsections 11A(2)(a) and (b), respectively; (ii) Under new section 11A(3), the lender must be aged 18 or over, have a certificate for the borrowed firearm and either have the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or have a written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shotgun on the premises; (iii)Under new section 11A(4), the borrower’s possession and use of the rifle or shotgun must comply with the conditions placed on the lender’s certificate; and (iv) Under new section 11A(5), the lender must be present during the period during which the rifle or shotgun is borrowed. Alternatively, the borrower must be in the presence of another person who is aged 18 or over and described under either subsection 11A(3)(c)(i) or (ii) of the 1968 Act, provided that they hold a certificate in respect of the borrowed rifle or shotgun borrowed – under subsections 11A(5)(a) or (b).

Edited February 1, 2018 by oowee

[RockySpears]

15 hours ago, oowee said:

53.New section 11A(1) provides that a non-certificate holder (‘the borrower’) may borrow and possess a rifle or a shotgun from another person (‘the lender’) on private premises lawfully only if they meet the following four conditions and if, in the case of a rifle, the borrower is aged 17 or over: (i) Under new section 11A(2), the borrowing and possession are for either hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, and/or for shooting at artificial targets – under subsections 11A(2)(a) and (b), respectively; (ii) Under new section 11A(3), the lender must be aged 18 or over, have a certificate for the borrowed firearm and either have the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or have a written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shotgun on the premises; (iii)Under new section 11A(4), the borrower’s possession and use of the rifle or shotgun must comply with the conditions placed on the lender’s certificate; and (iv) Under new section 11A(5), the lender must be present during the period during which the rifle or shotgun is borrowed. Alternatively, the borrower must be in the presence of another person who is aged 18 or over and described under either subsection 11A(3)(c)(i) or (ii) of the 1968 Act, provided that they hold a certificate in respect of the borrowed rifle or shotgun borrowed – under subsections 11A(5)(a) or (b).

  So I don't need anything, not even an FAC, if borrowing someone else's gun, who already shoots on the land legally?  That's like, well, an open ticket for people who do not even posses an FAC but have buddies who do.

  Kind of makes a bit of a mockery of anyone being given such restrictive Conditions in the first place.  More nonsense in the Gun laws?

 

RS

[Mr.C]

No read again you need to be over 18 and have license for the firearm used. Full stop. 

Then,

and either have the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, 

or have a written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shotgun on the premises; 

That's how I'm reading it. It could be interpreted loosely but I wouldn't risk it. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Mr.C

[Pushandpull]

If you go on the BASC site and click on Firearms, this and many other legal issues are clearly explained and most topics are in PDFs which you can print off

[Newbie to this]

 

32 minutes ago, Mr.C said:

No read again you need to be over 18 and have license for the firearm used. Full stop. 

Then,

and either have the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, 

or have a written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shotgun on the premises; 

That's how I'm reading it. It could be interpreted loosely but I wouldn't risk it. 

Sorry but I think you read it wrong.

The person who is lending the gun not the borrower needs to be over 18 and hold a cert,and either have the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or have a written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shotgun on the premises, the borrower mearly has to be over 17 if borrowing a rifle

[Mr.C]

You're right I sit corrected.