London Best Posted Sunday at 14:16 Report Share Posted Sunday at 14:16 Old Boggy, the quality in that Woodward really stands out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted Sunday at 19:58 Report Share Posted Sunday at 19:58 5 hours ago, London Best said: Old Boggy, the quality in that Woodward really stands out. Thank you LB. Another one I regretted selling. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Tuesday at 04:39 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 04:39 Well I got up to page seven and me head's spinning! Some lovely old guns and hardly dented the thread yet! I had to come up for air, so thought I'd add one of mine. Provincial, Smythe, Darlington. Made for C Arthur Head, Hartburn Hall. Great grandfather bought it for my grandfather's 21st B-day, (In 1917) at Arthur Head's estate sale. One of a pair. Very narrow fences but still on the face and articulaed fron trigger. ATB, R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted Tuesday at 05:09 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:09 What a lovely gun that’s been in your family all that time. That’s something really special and obviously something to hand down through the family. Look forward to seeing any other of your guns. Please keep posting and enjoy Pigeon Watch. We look forward to your future contributions. Kind regards OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Tuesday at 05:22 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:22 (edited) Old Boggy, I am pleased you like it! But think there is much more enjoyment for me coming here and seeing all the wonderful threads! Should have said earlier it is nitro proof and three stripe Damascus. Grandfather used it alone, till he got older and mashed a wrist, then he picked up both a 20 bore boxlock (Graham, Inverness) and 2 inch twelve for days when wrist bothered him. I am really short of photos and should set to and take some! FWIW, This was the old farm near Ormesby. Edited Tuesday at 05:25 by Pukka Bundook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted Tuesday at 11:47 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:47 6 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said: Old Boggy, I am pleased you like it! But think there is much more enjoyment for me coming here and seeing all the wonderful threads! Should have said earlier it is nitro proof and three stripe Damascus. Grandfather used it alone, till he got older and mashed a wrist, then he picked up both a 20 bore boxlock (Graham, Inverness) and 2 inch twelve for days when wrist bothered him. I am really short of photos and should set to and take some! FWIW, This was the old farm near Ormesby. I have been looking for a Grahams 20 bore for over 20 years and still not found one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted Tuesday at 13:05 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 13:05 On 16/02/2025 at 11:22, Old Boggy said: Yes, a push forward underlever hammerless non ejector. It had been sleeved, steel on Damascus by Benjamin Wild but I couldn`t find out when this was done and can only assume fairly early as it`s stamped on the side of the barrels and I`m told that this was later done on the flats, but not sure when this change occurred. Attached a few photos. The first two before the restoration to the stock and fore-end was carried out. OB Lovely; the wood especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted Tuesday at 13:13 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 13:13 1 hour ago, button said: I have been looking for a Grahams 20 bore for over 20 years and still not found one! As a bit of trivia that you probably know, Grahams are (were?) the current makers of the Gray Stalking Telescope - a traditional draw out telescope. I say 'were' because I'm not sure they are made any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted Tuesday at 13:29 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 13:29 (edited) On 16/02/2025 at 14:09, Pukka Bundook said: Also if I may, do you know who's crest that is on he escutcheon? My memory is fuzzy on this. Is it that of a Viscount? No. Baron. Viscounts have more balls! As they used to say. Or not. Baron is four balls as is on the gun. Viscount is nine. On the actual coronet it is six and sixteen respectively. But when drawn it is four and nine. All one of those pointless bits of knowledge that you end up acquiring. My brother's Godmother was daughter of the 5th Earl of Clancarty. Edited Tuesday at 13:33 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Tuesday at 14:55 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 14:55 (edited) Thank you Enfieldspares for clarifying the position re balls! It appears out family at one time had the title 'Bart" but as is so common, we suffered from third son's third son syndrome! LOL! Button. It's a sad story about the Graham I had. Was given it when Grandad died in 1970. Had a Churchill type rib and 26 inch barrels. Cased ejector. I damaged my hearing with it as it seemed to make a sharp crack and nobody was smart enough to wear ear plugs back then, so I traded it for a Lang 12 with longer barrels. It wasn't a good trade! The Lang was a single trigger and it didn't re set half the time, so sold it, so Grandfather's gun was gone for nothing. Oh I messed with the Lang trigger and it looked like others had, and local gunsmith had a go but never was right somehow. 3 hours ago, button said: I have been looking for a Grahams 20 bore for over 20 years and still not found one! Edited Tuesday at 14:56 by Pukka Bundook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted Tuesday at 17:46 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 17:46 On 16/02/2025 at 14:09, Pukka Bundook said: Old Boggy, Very bonny stock and a lovely gun! Its a sort we don't see in the field very often these days. I don't know either when they stopped marking Sleeved on the side and went to the barrel flats. Did you refinish the stock yourself? Looks like a proper linseed job. Also if I may, do you know who's crest that is on he escutcheon? My memory is fuzzy on this. Is it that of a Viscount? Thank you for showing it! The old Wilkinson is a top lever for cocking/opening. It has certain merits. Once lever cranked over, it opens and closes easily. All best, R. The restoration of the stock and new fore-end was fitted by James Reynolds (AKA Demonwolf444) who used to post on here and does amazing work. He is now known as `The Woodworking Gunsmith`. R, if interested, I did a very long drawn out piece on the acquisition and refurbishment of the gun on 22nd.May 2017 here on PW and if you google `Acquisition and refurbishment of Woodward No.3638` it may well pop up, but be warned it is a bit of as ramble ! I have to thank James who not only did the refurbishment but also had the technical ability to post my ramblings (something that was beyond me at the time) and also added his own step by step photos which brought the whole thing to life. Also much credit is given to Dan Bromley (Barrelblacker on here) who refurbished the barrels, removing dents etc to produce a great looking set of barrels completely unrecognisable from the poorly set I handed to him all those years ago. As to the crest on the escutcheon, that is of Lord George Robert Canning Harris (4th.Baron) of Belmont near Faversham Kent. He captained Kent at Canterbury and was Governor of Bombay from 1890 to 1895 and supposedly introduced cricket to the West Indies. Rumour has it that his devotion to cricket whilst in Bombay saw him paying more attention to cricket than governing and apparently was none too popular as governor. I was kindly given the information that the pair of guns were made for Lord Harris by Purdey who own the Woodward records. There is a bit of a follow up of both the No.1 and No.2 guns which may well be of interest, but I don`t wish to bore you with at present. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Tuesday at 18:18 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 18:18 (edited) Thank you for the info Old Boggy. I will definately look it up! It sounds very interesting. You mentioned Faversham. Funny that, as Great Grandfather on mothers side was a gamekeeper at various times in the very early 1900,'s for Lord Faversham, Lord Ivan Guiness, and Sir Cuhbert Quilter. One, I believe the latter, killed himself dragging his gun through a hedge after himself. Best, R. Ps, seeing as Im on sick lf a self employed can be on sick! I managed a couple more pics of the John Blissett. Edited Tuesday at 23:40 by Pukka Bundook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Wednesday at 05:45 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 05:45 Gents, If I may I just want to say I am up to page 22 on this thread and am thoroughly enjoying it! I would love to have replied to many of the old posts, but the time has gone by now. Wish I'd known about the forum sooner. Found it by accident. Old Boggy, Saw a few more pictures of your Woodward! Beautiful job! JJ's DAD, Very much enjoyed your posts on heavy loads and mention of Gough THomas. In my world GT Garwood was the last word, and can't see why heavier loads caught on when the standard loads were developed under such rigorous conditions, where any failings would have come to light and been dealt with. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. All the best, Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted Wednesday at 10:10 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 10:10 4 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said: can't see why heavier loads caught on when the standard loads were developed under such rigorous conditions, where any failings would have come to light and been dealt with. All the best, Richard. Personally, I think people have taken to using ridiculously heavy loads for regular game shooting because the game is not coming down with standard loads they think the loads are inadequate and it cannot be because they are missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted Wednesday at 11:40 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 11:40 1 hour ago, London Best said: Personally, I think people have taken to using ridiculously heavy loads for regular game shooting because the game is not coming down with standard loads they think the loads are inadequate and it cannot be because they are missing. It is high birds today a large number of game shooters want high birds and 200 plus bag days there are some good shots for this type of shooting but there are some that are not and too many birds are pricked and fly on I personally do not think high birds are good for the sport and gets game shooting a bad name Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted Wednesday at 11:43 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 11:43 20 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said: Thank you Enfieldspares for clarifying the position re balls! It appears out family at one time had the title 'Bart" but as is so common, we suffered from third son's third son syndrome! LOL! Button. It's a sad story about the Graham I had. Was given it when Grandad died in 1970. Had a Churchill type rib and 26 inch barrels. Cased ejector. I damaged my hearing with it as it seemed to make a sharp crack and nobody was smart enough to wear ear plugs back then, so I traded it for a Lang 12 with longer barrels. It wasn't a good trade! The Lang was a single trigger and it didn't re set half the time, so sold it, so Grandfather's gun was gone for nothing. Oh I messed with the Lang trigger and it looked like others had, and local gunsmith had a go but never was right somehow. Let’s hope the new owner enjoyed it and I will keep searching 22 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: As a bit of trivia that you probably know, Grahams are (were?) the current makers of the Gray Stalking Telescope - a traditional draw out telescope. I say 'were' because I'm not sure they are made any more. That’s right, do you know if the telescope was anything to do with the gunmakers Grays of Inverness? Or was that just coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted Wednesday at 12:00 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:00 18 minutes ago, Feltwad said: It is high birds today a large number of game shooters want high birds and 200 plus bag days there are some good shots for this type of shooting but there are some that are not and too many birds are pricked and fly on I personally do not think high birds are good for the sport and gets game shooting a bad name Feltwad + 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted Wednesday at 12:32 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:32 50 minutes ago, Feltwad said: It is high birds today a large number of game shooters want high birds and 200 plus bag days there are some good shots for this type of shooting but there are some that are not and too many birds are pricked and fly on I personally do not think high birds are good for the sport and gets game shooting a bad name Feltwad Game shooting ( and certainly shooting in general ) already has a bad name; we’re killing things for entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted Wednesday at 12:39 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:39 56 minutes ago, Feltwad said: It is high birds today a large number of game shooters want high birds and 200 plus bag days there are some good shots for this type of shooting but there are some that are not and too many birds are pricked and fly on I personally do not think high birds are good for the sport and gets game shooting a bad name Feltwad Most of the people buying heavy loads for game have never seen a high bird! I have seen people using 34 and 36 gram loads for partridges over hedges in flat Lincolnshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted Wednesday at 12:51 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:51 11 minutes ago, London Best said: Most of the people buying heavy loads for game have never seen a high bird! I have seen people using 34 and 36 gram loads for partridges over hedges in flat Lincolnshire. Was there anything left of the partridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted Wednesday at 13:34 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 13:34 37 minutes ago, London Best said: Most of the people buying heavy loads for game have never seen a high bird! I have seen people using 34 and 36 gram loads for partridges over hedges in flat Lincolnshire. 37 minutes ago, London Best said: Most of the people buying heavy loads for game have never seen a high bird! I have seen people using 34 and 36 gram loads for partridges over hedges in flat Lincolnshire. I do not call them sports men they are worst than pot hunters who shoot sitting birds nor do I think much of a estate whose keeper puts this type of stand on a driven day I personally can enjoy a 40 bird day of reasonable driven bird day has to a 200 plus days . Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Wednesday at 14:52 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 14:52 Gentlemen, Reading your replies up this page I see we are all in agreement on heavy loads and high birds. May I ask where these uninformed come from? In my day, countrymen bred countrymen, but there seems to be a crop that have appeared as it were, new to the game and no clue of the effectiveness of standard loads and fairy open bores. I must confess this being a big part of why I am here; To find our what happened. To my mind, all G.T. Garwood's books should be required reading for anyone new to the game! It Is so good to see that there is still the voice of reason out there, and thank you all for taking the time to repl London Best, Even if these High bird heavy charge people got a 'Shooter's Diary' it might help them. Somewhere someone mentioned a good shot on high birds using an ounce and a quarter of no 3 for pheasants! As we all know, Pattern had failed Long before energy. Its madness. Thank you again to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted Wednesday at 15:01 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 15:01 3 minutes ago, Pukka Bundook said: May I ask where these uninformed come from? In my day, countrymen bred countrymen, but there seems to be a crop that have appeared as it were, new to the game and no clue of the effectiveness of standard loads and fairy open bores. In my opinion the problem is that many (most?) people coming into the sport over the last 20/30 years are not countrymen, but have come in through clay shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukka Bundook Posted Wednesday at 15:20 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 15:20 9 minutes ago, London Best said: In my opinion the problem is that many (most?) people coming into the sport over the last 20/30 years are not countrymen, but have come in through clay shooting. This was the conclusion I had arrived at, but wondered if I had missed anything L-B! My best friend back home shot clays occasionally at a friend's sporting layout. Some of his bird seemed impossible ...so high! Yet, after others had tried and fared very badly, the host would shoot the same 'too high' clays with his normal chambered.410! Ken told me of this on numerous occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted Wednesday at 19:07 Report Share Posted Wednesday at 19:07 4 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said: To my mind, all G.T. Garwood's books should be required reading for anyone new to the game! Here's Gough Thomas recommending the Gunmark sidelocks of the 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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