To FAC or not to FAC

[spandit]

Thinking about getting a PCP for squirrels etc. and have read that FAC rifles are cheaper than non. I already have an FAC so it would just be a case of getting another slot or is there any reason to not go for an FAC rifle (which could after all be made to shoot at sub-12ftlb levels as desired)?

 

[happyshooter]

I don,t know what your shoots are like , but some of my shoots are quite big and 

open, but not suitable for rimfire use because of layout , i,e roads, footpaths ,

this is where i use my fac airguns  ,a airranger .22cal @37fpe  for ambush shooting a kalbrigun cricket bullpup .22 cal @27 fpe,  

Sub 12fpe pcp,s are more than capable of taking out squirrels ,i am thinking of getting the new Kral

NP02 airgun in .177 cal as my squirrel gun its a bargain at around £350-00 .

atb brian

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, spandit said:

Thinking about getting a PCP for squirrels etc. and have read that FAC rifles are cheaper than non. I already have an FAC so it would just be a case of getting another slot or is there any reason to not go for an FAC rifle (which could after all be made to shoot at sub-12ftlb levels as desired)?

 

I haven't read anything yet to make me not want an fac air rifle, bit more range lot more stopping power compared with sub 12, what's not to like.

and using the rapid as an example once the gun is made fac it can't go back so some shops have apparently got them sitting on shelves gathering dust, the barrel, stock and other bits can be sold but the "block" stays fac. That's why they can be cheaper there harder to sell on.

[Ultrastu]

Thats about the only real down side .other than lower shot count obviously. 

I love my fac airs .and nearly  always pick one of them up if i have propper pest control to do ,over a sub 12 .

I do use my subs ,its just that they are a bit more recreational use now . 

Go for it .

[happyshooter]

7 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Thats about the only real down side .other than lower shot count obviously. 

I love my fac airs .and nearly  always pick one of them up if i have propper pest control to do ,over a sub 12 .

I do use my subs ,its just that they are a bit more recreational use now . 

Go for it .

i agree with you Stu , i often take my fac airranger out when i could use my .22lr rimfires  

because the fac air is more fun to use and is deadly because the airranger is fitted with a match grade 

barrel.

atb brian

[spandit]

Always fancied a Rapid 7 ever since a mate of mine had one years ago (FAC power but he didn't have a licence, naughty chap... this must have been over 25 years ago and I know he doesn't have it any more) but don't want anything too heavy and although the ammunition is cheap, if I have to buy a divers bottle etc. it's going to get expensive!

 

[telf]

Have a look at  the brocock bantam hr sniper , had a look at one the other day , lightweight with the carbon bottle , seventy plus shots , three power levels should you require it , lovely to the shoulder , all round a very nice rifle

[bruno22rf]

If your land is already cleared for FAC then you should be fine but why not simply buy a .22lr, cheaper, quieter and variable power depending on what you feed it + the cost of Tanks etc buys a heck of a lot of .22 ammo - not much beats the sound of a Squirrel being hit by a subsonic .22lr.

[Mice!]

50 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

If your land is already cleared for FAC then you should be fine but why not simply buy a .22lr, cheaper, quieter and variable power depending on what you feed it + the cost of Tanks etc buys a heck of a lot of .22 ammo - not much beats the sound of a Squirrel being hit by a subsonic .22lr.

Unless there up the tree?

4 hours ago, spandit said:

Always fancied a Rapid 7 ever since a mate of mine had one years ago (FAC power but he didn't have a licence, naughty chap... this must have been over 25 years ago and I know he doesn't have it any more) but don't want anything too heavy and although the ammunition is cheap, if I have to buy a divers bottle etc. it's going to get expensive!

 

I've had my rifle from new twenty odd years and never filled it myself, yes sub 12 so 150 & 300 shots off the bottles or there about, costs a couple of quid to get them filled, or you get a pump and just top up.

[Ultrastu]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Unless there up the tree?

I've had my rifle from new twenty odd years and never filled it myself, yes sub 12 so 150 & 300 shots off the bottles or there about, costs a couple of quid to get them filled, or you get a pump and just top up.

Or on a wire .

[spandit]

4 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

If your land is already cleared for FAC then you should be fine but why not simply buy a .22lr, cheaper, quieter and variable power depending on what you feed it + the cost of Tanks etc buys a heck of a lot of .22 ammo - not much beats the sound of a Squirrel being hit by a subsonic .22lr.

Why would I need a 3rd 22LR?

I've also got 17HMR and a couple of CF but as has been mentioned shooting one off a branch with a .308 is unlikely to win me many friends in the police!

[chrisjpainter]

There aren't many areas where an FAC air rifle is a better tool than either a Sub 12 air rifle at one end, or a rimfire at the other. But squirrel control is one of the best uses of an FAC-air. That extra energy is ideal, and you can shoot at stuff in trees and wires - as Stu and Mice! have said. It's the ideal choice and it's just another slot for you, so I'd go for it. 

[Ultrastu]

You could do a lot worse than a .22 bsa scorpion running around 25 fpe. 

You can easily pump this up .and should return around 35 shots 

How about buy a nice sub 12 scorpion se for around  (sh £ 450 )  . Try it out for accuracy etc at sub 12 then have it converted and put on ticket .

Have to disagree with u there chris .

I find a fac air a better tool than a sub 12 (on more occasions and in a wider variety of situations ) and also a .22 rim fire .for the same reasons .

 

[Walker570]

Still mulling over an FAC rifle although my style of tree rat control is ambush based on flip tops and pheasant feeders at relatively close range and a 22 pellet out of my S200 goes through and out the other side no problem.   BUT on occasion I have hit a feral pigeon, even a magpie out at 40yrds and it has not done a clean job where I think an FAC rifle would BUT would also go in and out of a tree rats head at 10 to 15yrds sitting on a flip top. SOOOOO!!!  Yes, I do think I will be looking this autumn/winter but need a short compact rifle. 

[Scully]

Debated about going S1 when I bought my HW 100 earlier this year, and should have done really. If licensing comes in then I'll probably go down that route. 

[chrisjpainter]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Debated about going S1 when I bought my HW 100 earlier this year, and should have done really. If licensing comes in then I'll probably go down that route. 

Definitely worth it - but don't with that gun! It's a shocker in FAC. 

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Definitely worth it - but don't with that gun! It's a shocker in FAC. 

Really? Mates was superb, and the only reason I bought mine. 

[chrisjpainter]

41 minutes ago, Scully said:

Really? Mates was superb, and the only reason I bought mine. 

Yeah. For some reason there are loads of absolute dogs out there! It's one of the best sub 12's, but it's got a chequered past as an FAC

Edited August 14, 2018 by chrisjpainter

[Scully]

Ah well. I may have to suck it and see; won’t be getting anything else. 

[Ultrastu]

Must admit .to hearing the very same .hw100 

Terrible in fac .

[Ultrastu]

46 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Still mulling over an FAC rifle although my style of tree rat control is ambush based on flip tops and pheasant feeders at relatively close range and a 22 pellet out of my S200 goes through and out the other side no problem.   BUT on occasion I have hit a feral pigeon, even a magpie out at 40yrds and it has not done a clean job where I think an FAC rifle would BUT would also go in and out of a tree rats head at 10 to 15yrds sitting on a flip top. SOOOOO!!!  Yes, I do think I will be looking this autumn/winter but need a short compact rifle. 

Thing is , a fac pellet at say 850 fps .will penetrate the same distance . (All mediums being equal ) as the same pellet at 550 fps (sub 12 ) .

The speed of the pellet doesnt really govern penetration depth .but the shock wave and wound cavity will ne much greater from the fac pellet .

I shot 11 pige on sunday with my .22 ultra fac .from 15 to around 45 yds .aimed bang on the upper chest for them all .and they all dropped hard .perfect for this job as quick shot to centre mass is the only way of hitting the bird .before it takes off again ..didnt see any exit holes from the rear of the bird (though must admit i didnt check ) 

[Scully]

9 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Must admit .to hearing the very same .hw100 

Terrible in fac .

In what way? 

[Walker570]

9 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Thing is , a fac pellet at say 850 fps .will penetrate the same distance . (All mediums being equal ) as the same pellet at 550 fps (sub 12 ) .

The speed of the pellet doesnt really govern penetration depth .but the shock wave and wound cavity will ne much greater from the fac pellet .

I shot 11 pige on sunday with my .22 ultra fac .from 15 to around 45 yds .aimed bang on the upper chest for them all .and they all dropped hard .perfect for this job as quick shot to centre mass is the only way of hitting the bird .before it takes off again ..didnt see any exit holes from the rear of the bird (though must admit i didnt check ) 

Hmmmm????? Not doubting your expertise one little bit but what penetration tests have you done to support this?    If I hit a nail gentle like it will go in so far, if I give it a good clout it will go in further so me being totally uneducated on these matters would think a pellet travelling half as fast again would penetrate further ??????

[Ultrastu]

Ive done a lot of penetration tests on a different mediums .with pellets from 400 fps in 100 fps increments up to 900 fps .in .177 and .22 ..

And you find that the more the medium resists penetration (ie its harder ) the more the pellet deforms on impact .some mediums can make faster pellets penetrate less far than slow ones .

The shape and weight of the pellet (momentum ) are by far the biggest factors governing penetration .

Ps a nail is hard steel and going relativley slowly when you hit it .its not at all similar to a projectile impact in many ways .

There is a great vid on utube where a guy shoots gel at 25 yds and 300 yds with a .22 lr .and they both penetrate exactly the same depth .

[Walker570]

Many thanks. Was not doubting one bit that you had done the work on it. Soooo, it is the make up of the pellet and it's design which dictates penetration. I shoot Barnes TTSX all copper bullets in my 375JDJ and 8x57 and 257 RRI Wildcat and those bullets penetrate much better than 'normal' bullets.  SOOOOOOOOO ????  a)  FAC 177 or 22 b) what pellet ????

Short compact rifle choice ...sensible price ????????????????????????????

Edited August 15, 2018 by Walker570