Frank Field

[JohnfromUK]

12 hours ago, Retsdon said:

but it's downright sinister that there is an obvious campaign being waged  - with the connivance of the media -  to unseat the leader of the opposition, not by confronting and defeating his political stance but by a stream of drip, drip, drip, allegations and innuendos that can never be disproved because no evidence is ever presented.

When you have a problem with the party political stance the party is the subject of the appropriate 'attack'.  The Labour and Tory parties are both attacked by the press - in my view the Tories (as the party of government at present), more so than Labour.

When you have a problem with the party leader - you attack the leader's record.  People have attacked many politician's past records, some have survived, some have not.  In Corbyn's case there is a massive amount of hard evidence for his past record, standing with IRA at Republican events, standing with Palestinian groups at events, speaking at fringe meetings.  That was never Labour party policy ........ that was pure Corbyn ..... out on his own, standing up for his own 'beliefs'.  If he believes in supporting the IRA etc., of course he will be attacked for that!

These are not "allegations and innuendos" but are hard facts.

It's not "downright sinister" at all - it is the (free) Press doing what it does all the time - digging the dirt.  Some people have a lot of very nasty dirt, others it may be hard to find even a little, but it's what journalists have always done - and rightly so.

This is getting right off topic for the Frank Field topic which isn't fair to the original poster who raised a good topic, so I won't post more unless it's Frank Field related.

Edited August 31, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[Newbie to this]

I wish him all the luck if he stands as an independent, but as someone has already mentioned, he will find it hard to get re-elected.

I know a few Labour supporters and they will vote Labour regardless of the policies or the candidate. Labour has been brainwashed into them from birth by family and later in their working life, by joining a union.

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

From Frank Field's resignation letter listing his reasons for resigning,.

"The first centres on the latest example of Labour’s leadership becoming a force for antisemitism in British politics. The latest example, from last week, comes after a series of attempts by Jeremy to deny that past statements and actions by him were antisemitic."

Say again? This is like something straight out a Monty Python sketch. "you're anti-Semitic!'" "No, I'm not.,' "Ha! Gotcha! Only an anti-Semite would deny that they're anti-Semitic.'

 

Perhaps posters should take up reading accurately. Possibly the most bizarre comment I have seen in some time.

[oisin og]

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance.

Happy to display ignorance. What about posters who condemn JC for his anti-Semitism - are they displaying their ignorance?

[hambone]

25 minutes ago, oisin og said:

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

I'm lost for words fella, thought we had moved on!

[scouser]

I live in the next town to Birkenhead , he is so well respected by him constituents if he stands as a independent it will be a landslide.  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, oisin og said:

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

I think I'll just save that for posterity too, WOW! To some of us who were up against PIRA it will never be a legal set up whatever you call it.

 

28 minutes ago, scouser said:

I live in the next town to Birkenhead , he is so well respected by him constituents if he stands as a independent it will be a landslide.  

I think that is the most likely outcome should he either step down or to be thrown out as appears to be the wish of the Labour whip.

[scouser]

1 hour ago, oisin og said:

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

By Sinn Fein, do you mean the I.R.A. If they kick off, which I dought very much ,    ( N.I. is loving the peace and quiet very much,been there ,fantastic place,) then the ones in control should let the DOG,S off.

[Retsdon]

12 hours ago, Gordon R said:

What about posters who condemn JC for his anti-Semitism - are they displaying their ignorance?

What antisemitism? However much the likes of Netanyahu might try to muddy the water, opposition to the illegal Israeli appropriation of indigenous Palestinian land isn't antisemitism 

[Rewulf]

12 hours ago, oisin og said:

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

You know whats the most funny about that spiel ?
You talk about Irish nationalists, and one mans attitude to the EU and Brexit, I presume you think the IRA and Sinn Fein 'liberated' Ireland front British hegemony ?
All good, thats fine if you want to think like that, you got autonomy...
Then you went and sold yourselves down the river to Brussels ! You now live under an  EU hegemony.
Not a nation, but a state.

The EU are using Ireland, using YOU , to 'win' these negotiations , you are an expendable gaming chip.
Your Taosiech is a weak, underling servant of Brussels, and any economic suffering inflicted on the UK will be reflected straight back onto Eire.
Which will suit the EUs aims perfectly, as they bail you out, leaving you owing them billions, a bit like Greece without the sun.

[pegasus bridge]

On 31/08/2018 at 12:04, Westward said:

My problem is that I have absolutely no experience with anti-Semitism. There were a couple of Jewish kids at my school, I've lived close by Jewish districts of west London, I've worked with Jewish engineers and programmers and I've never seen any kind of discrimination against Jews by anyone.

Given that socialism is the creed of envy, is it that the Labour party - or some of it's members - have anti-Semitic feelings because Jewish people tend to work hard and do well for themselves?

The anti Semitic element is driven by those on the left / momentum with Corbyn at the healm who have spent so long fixating on Israel / Palestine and pandering to their ‘friends’ the islamists at Hamas. 

Its a wider problem with the left. Me personally - the rise of Islamic extremism in the West has moved me from an apathetic position on Palestine to supporting Israel.

The Israelis have to live amongst a sea of nations who would slaughter them given half a chance .

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

What antisemitism? However much the likes of Netanyahu might try to muddy the water, opposition to the illegal Israeli appropriation of indigenous Palestinian land isn't antisemitism 

Yes, and I’m sure that’s how JC wants to play it - but his ‘friends’ at Hamas are committed to the destruction of Israel .  As for the occupied lands - how far are we going back ?

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, pegasus bridge said:

Yes, and I’m sure that’s how JC wants to play it - but his ‘friends’ at Hamas are committed to the destruction of Israel .  As for the occupied lands - how far are we going back ?

It's not up to Corbyn to 'play' anything. You're the one accusing him of antisemitism. If you are unable to provide any actual examples - what's your point? Or is this what they mean by 'fake news.?

How far back are we going to go? How about back to the future? Israel has targeted 82% of lands located in the southern West Bank district of Bethlehem to continue illegal Israeli settlement expansion.

 

[pinfireman]

16 hours ago, oisin og said:

Frank Field belongs to the right wing of the Labour Party. This has been long been the case. His views are not representative of the Labour Party. It is long past time that he resigned from the Party. If the Party had any balls they would have grasped this nettle a long time ago.

His views on Brexit are generally atypical of mainstream Labour and  his consistent support of the Tory party is reprehensible.

He does not give a dam about the multiple problems that Brexit will cause on the island of Ireland  and his political position on Ireland has been regressive for many years.

Those posters who condemn JC for supporting Irish nationalists merely display their ignorance. Sinn Fein are a legal political party. Get over it!  There is no agreed narrative about the war in Ireland. Many Irish nationalists support Sinn Fein and supported the IRA.  There is every indication that Sinn Fei will continue to represent their political aspirations. Frank Field’s attitude to Ireland and to the EU is appalling.  Let's have a bye election.

Rubbish! Firstly, Frank Field supports POLICIES, NOT  the Conservative government, unless the two are the same. He hasen an excellent constituency MP  throughout his tenure in the HoC.  The vast number of Labour voters support Brexit, get over it!

His position on Ireland has been the same as every government since 1968!

He has NEVER been to a memorial for British soldiers, policemen or civilians, but can support the gangsters who murdered them. There will no doubt be a by-election, which Frank Field will lose, but the winner will be an intellectual pygmy compared to him!

16 hours ago, hambone said:

I'm lost for words fella, thought we had moved on!

We have, he has not....! Says it all, really!

15 hours ago, scouser said:

I live in the next town to Birkenhead , he is so well respected by him constituents if he stands as a independent it will be a landslide.  

sadly, it will not! Put a red rose behind a pig,s ear, they will vote for the pig!

3 hours ago, Retsdon said:

What antisemitism? However much the likes of Netanyahu might try to muddy the water, opposition to the illegal Israeli appropriation of indigenous Palestinian land isn't antisemitism 

Smearing ALL Jews as Zionists is!

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You know whats the most funny about that spiel ?
You talk about Irish nationalists, and one mans attitude to the EU and Brexit, I presume you think the IRA and Sinn Fein 'liberated' Ireland front British hegemony ?
All good, thats fine if you want to think like that, you got autonomy...
Then you went and sold yourselves down the river to Brussels ! You now live under an  EU hegemony.
Not a nation, but a state.

The EU are using Ireland, using YOU , to 'win' these negotiations , you are an expendable gaming chip.
Your Taosiech is a weak, underling servant of Brussels, and any economic suffering inflicted on the UK will be reflected straight back onto Eire.
Which will suit the EUs aims perfectly, as they bail you out, leaving you owing them billions, a bit like Greece without the sun.

Well said!

[Rewulf]

40 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It's not up to Corbyn to 'play' anything. You're the one accusing him of antisemitism. If you are unable to provide any actual examples - what's your point? Or is this what they mean by 'fake news.?

How far back are we going to go? How about back to the future? Israel has targeted 82% of lands located in the southern West Bank district of Bethlehem to continue illegal Israeli settlement expansion.

 

Im not going to dispute your facts about Israels illegal activities, because they are just that, facts.

But you are tying JC s obvious support of Palestinian causes as the medias cause for antisemitism accusations.
This is not the case, not officially anyway.
He is the leader of the labour party, and members of that party have been very clearly and publicly antisemitic, and he has said and done nothing to curb it.
When challenged, he has struggled to quantify it or apologise, digging a deeper hole.

He has clearly chosen what 'side' he is on in these matters, so its not a massive stretch of the imagination to figure out his mind set.
Judgemental I know, but these are the times we live in.

[Retsdon]

5 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Smearing ALL Jews as Zionists is!

Where? When? If it happened, there must be some kind of a link?

[pinfireman]

52 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It's not up to Corbyn to 'play' anything. You're the one accusing him of antisemitism. If you are unable to provide any actual examples - what's your point? Or is this what they mean by 'fake news.?

How far back are we going to go? How about back to the future? Israel has targeted 82% of lands located in the southern West Bank district of Bethlehem to continue illegal Israeli settlement expansion.

 

His appearances at Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, Fatah, Black September etc etc rallies point to his anti-semitism!  He is anti-semitic by association!  He NEVER condems those in his Party who make horrific anti- jewish speeches, until he is forced to by the media....Get real!

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

Where? When? If it happened, there must be some kind of a link?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/corbyn-under-fresh-fire-for-saying-in-2013-zionists-dont-get-english-culture/

[pinfireman]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im not going to dispute your facts about Israels illegal activities, because they are just that, facts.

But you are tying JC s obvious support of Palestinian causes as the medias cause for antisemitism accusations.
This is not the case, not officially anyway.
He is the leader of the labour party, and members of that party have been very clearly and publicly antisemitic, and he has said and done nothing to curb it.
When challenged, he has struggled to quantify it or apologise, digging a deeper hole.

He has clearly chosen what 'side' he is on in these matters, so its not a massive stretch of the imagination to figure out his mind set.
Judgemental I know, but these are the times we live in.

Correct!

[oisin og]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You know whats the most funny about that spiel ?
You talk about Irish nationalists, and one mans attitude to the EU and Brexit, I presume you think the IRA and Sinn Fein 'liberated' Ireland front British hegemony ?
All good, thats fine if you want to think like that, you got autonomy...
Then you went and sold yourselves down the river to Brussels ! You now live under an  EU hegemony.
Not a nation, but a state.

The EU are using Ireland, using YOU , to 'win' these negotiations , you are an expendable gaming chip.
Your Taosiech is a weak, underling servant of Brussels, and any economic suffering inflicted on the UK will be reflected straight back onto Eire.
Which will suit the EUs aims perfectly, as they bail you out, leaving you owing them billions, a bit like Greece without the sun.

Unfortunately Ireland is not yet liberated from British hegemony: part of it is.

You might note that he is not my “Taoiseach”.  As my address indicates I reside in the northern part of the island; the part that remains under British jurisdiction, which, as you may be aware, voted against Brexit.

After Brexit the UK’s only land border with the EU will be in Ireland.  No thought whatever has been given by British politicians to the devastation this will cause to the economy of Ireland, north and south. “It will be all right on the night” is as considered a response as one gets when pertinent questions are put to British politicians about the regulatory regime that will exist post Brexit.

If anybody is “expendable” in this mess it is the people of the north of Ireland whose wish’s and hopes for the future are being disregarded by the Tory government.

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, oisin og said:

Unfortunately Ireland is not yet liberated from British hegemony: part of it is.

You might note that he is not my “Taoiseach”.  As my address indicates I reside in the northern part of the island; the part that remains under British jurisdiction, which, as you may be aware, voted against Brexit.

After Brexit the UK’s only land border with the EU will be in Ireland.  No thought whatever has been given by British politicians to the devastation this will cause to the economy of Ireland, north and south. “It will be all right on the night” is as considered a response as one gets when pertinent questions are put to British politicians about the regulatory regime that will exist post Brexit.

If anybody is “expendable” in this mess it is the people of the north of Ireland whose wish’s and hopes for the future are being disregarded by the Tory government.

Yes ,nearly 56% of NI voted to remain, some boroughs in the rest of the UK voted in much larger percentages to remain. Perhaps they should leave the UK and become an EU state.
Is that what you want, a complete Ireland free from the tyranny of English rule, and transferred to the warm embrace of EU membership ?

Lets think about this for a minute.
Get your weight behind a referendum to be one nation again, lets say the nationalists win ..
Im sure the loyalists will be absolutely fine about that, the Euro, rule from Dublin, what could go wrong ?

Brexit happened, we could hardly leave NI out of it ,any more than Scotland and Wales, if we did, you would still be an EU state, and we would not.

The EU couldnt give a monkeys cuss for Ireland , north or south, sooner you start realising that the better.

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/corbyn-under-fresh-fire-for-saying-in-2013-zionists-dont-get-english-culture/

 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

But you are tying JC s obvious support of Palestinian causes as the medias cause for antisemitism accusations.

No I'm not actually. The link you posted above - thanks for that BTW - is from 2013 - in other words two years before Frank Field ironically (I bet he wishes he hadn't done it) nominated Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour party. Since then, JC has won the leadership vote again in yet another party wide vote. So why wasn't this antisemitism business raised then? Did nobody notice? After all, JCs long-term and open support for terrorist/freedom fighter (whatever term floats your boat) groupings is nothing new. So why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth now? Why this witch hunt branding all sorts of people   - even Jews... but inevitably Corbyn supporting Jews- as antisemitic on the flimsiest of pretexts in  2018?

To my mind there are two reasons. One - but this is always ongoing - there are certain Zionists (and I"m using the term in its historical political sense) who will always take any opportunity to try and break down the distinction between the Israeli government and Jews in general. But it's a natural and obvious political tactic that has been going on for decades. So nothing new there. The second reason is far more opaque, but I think it's the real one. And that is that Big Money is scared of Corbyn and his policies. For example,  he's promised to re-nationalize key industries. He wants to introduce sectoral collective bargaining. He wants to give state aid to certain industries. He wants to introduce a maximum pay ratio between board and worker salaries. The list goes on. And it's all anathema to corporate money.

Are his economic ideas sound? No idea quite frankly. But  - put in front of the public  - they might very well prove popular. And there's the problem. He can't be attacked on his policies because then the policies would have to be given publicity and people might actually like them - even if they would lead to economic  disaster. (Like Brexit - haha!) So instead, the wheeze is to get the paid up apparatchiks in parliament and the press corps to run with a whispering campaign. And of course, once the ball starts rolling all that needs to be done is to give it a little shove now and then and the 'he said \ she said'' momentum takes care of the rest. But as I said initially, this kind of dirty politics - largely imported from the playbooks of American political strategists like Karl Rove - undermines the proper democratic system and people, regardless of their opinion of Corbyn,  shouldn't allow themselves to be gulled by it. Corbyn is just one man. Allow politics to go fully to the dark side and it won 't be so easy to get back to the light again. Just look at how things are in America. Their system is basically broken.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Retsdon

[Gordon R]

Quote

What antisemitism? 

Use your eyes, ears and brain.

[pegasus bridge]

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

It's not up to Corbyn to 'play' anything. You're the one accusing him of antisemitism. If you are unable to provide any actual examples - what's your point? Or is this what they mean by 'fake news.?

How far back are we going to go? How about back to the future? Israel has targeted 82% of lands located in the southern West Bank district of Bethlehem to continue illegal Israeli settlement expansion.

 

Here’s Corbyns hand selected strategy man telling us how much support he has for Hamas, JC’s old ‘friends’  , is JC brain dead ? Because this is the Only alternate explaination  other than he is a supporter of Hamas, a terrorist organisation committed to the destruction of Israel. 

 

He is the the leader of the opposition party !! Take a step back and consider this...

 

[pegasus bridge]

3 hours ago, Retsdon said:

 

No I'm not actually. The link you posted above - thanks for that BTW - is from 2013 - in other words two years before Frank Field ironically (I bet he wishes he hadn't done it) nominated Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour party. Since then, JC has won the leadership vote again in yet another party wide vote. So why wasn't this antisemitism business raised then? Did nobody notice? After all, JCs long-term and open support for terrorist/freedom fighter (whatever term floats your boat) groupings is nothing new. So why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth now? Why this witch hunt branding all sorts of people   - even Jews... but inevitably Corbyn supporting Jews- as antisemitic on the flimsiest of pretexts in  2018?

To my mind there are two reasons. One - but this is always ongoing - there are certain Zionists (and I"m using the term in its historical political sense) who will always take any opportunity to try and break down the distinction between the Israeli government and Jews in general. But it's a natural and obvious political tactic that has been going on for decades. So nothing new there. The second reason is far more opaque, but I think it's the real one. And that is that Big Money is scared of Corbyn and his policies. For example,  he's promised to re-nationalize key industries. He wants to introduce sectoral collective bargaining. He wants to give state aid to certain industries. He wants to introduce a maximum pay ratio between board and worker salaries. The list goes on. And it's all anathema to corporate money.

Are his economic ideas sound? No idea quite frankly. But  - put in front of the public  - they might very well prove popular. And there's the problem. He can't be attacked on his policies because then the policies would have to be given publicity and people might actually like them - even if they would lead to economic  disaster. (Like Brexit - haha!) So instead, the wheeze is to get the paid up apparatchiks in parliament and the press corps to run with a whispering campaign. And of course, once the ball starts rolling all that needs to be done is to give it a little shove now and then and the 'he said \ she said'' momentum takes care of the rest. But as I said initially, this kind of dirty politics - largely imported from the playbooks of American political strategists like Karl Rove - undermines the proper democratic system and people, regardless of their opinion of Corbyn,  shouldn't allow themselves to be gulled by it. Corbyn is just one man. Allow politics to go fully to the dark side and it won 't be so easy to get back to the light again. Just look at how things are in America. Their system is basically broken.

Ah.. the old ‘socialist policies are so attractive and will be so successful that the zionists wouldn’t allow it’ type rubbish spouted by Owen Jones et al.  

 

Why dont you pack your bags and head to Venezuela and live this dream?

 

take your pets along, you’ll be needing them ?