Alleged Russian assassins on TV

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

"If it looks like a chicken, and clucks like a chicken..."

It's a Turkey? 🤔

[12gauge82]

Got to say the evidence looks overwhelming, coming all the way to Salisbury to look at a cathedral for one day, multiple plane tickets booked to leave and now it transpires the one suspect has connections to Russian intelligence. I've an open mind and certainly don't blindly trust my own government, nore do I trust the west's version of history, I also accept we antagonise Russia at times, but I believe to claim this was anything less than a Russian hit at this point is ridiculous, at best it could have been a rouge element, but even that is highly unlikely looking logically at all the evidence.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

"If it looks like a chicken, and clucks like a chicken..."

You could say the same thing about bovine excrement too.
But as long as youre happy with the story, fair do's.
Not like anyone is going to do anything about it, except perhaps say 'Those bloody Russians, always up to no good'
Then the illusion of a nation full of aggressors myth is reinforced, and the west can continue its business.

37 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Got to say the evidence looks overwhelming, coming all the way to Salisbury to look at a cathedral for one day, multiple plane tickets booked to leave and now it transpires the one suspect has connections to Russian intelligence. I've an open mind and certainly don't blindly trust my own government, nore do I trust the west's version of history, I also accept we antagonise Russia at times, but I believe to claim this was anything less than a Russian hit at this point is ridiculous, at best it could have been a rouge element, but even that is highly unlikely looking logically at all the evidence.

Which is exactly what youre supposed to think ?

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You could say the same thing about bovine excrement too.
But as long as youre happy with the story, fair do's.
Not like anyone is going to do anything about it, except perhaps say 'Those bloody Russians, always up to no good'
Then the illusion of a nation full of aggressors myth is reinforced, and the west can continue its business.

Which is exactly what youre supposed to think ?

True, but there are certain peices of information that would require too many other people or organisations to be involved in, for instance, if they hadn't booked multiple plane tickets, an airline would know, with several individuals who worked for them also knowing, the photos clearly show one of the suspects in military gear after he denied being involved in anything like that, it does appear our government is telling the truth in this case.

[Rewulf]

A bit of a light hearted look at it .
All the people on the right are Russian.

Except the last 2 , they are both Russian !

[oowee]

The data search by Bellingcat is more than just the pic's. The pics are a part of the jigsaw. Wait for more. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

A bit of a light hearted look at it .
All the people on the right are Russian.

Except the last 2 , they are both Russian !

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, or disprove, but you can't really compare three passport type pic's with the ones you've posted above. The phrase 'clutching at straws' springs to mind. 

I covered the ones on the left incidentally, and my OH correctly identified them all except Leonardo De Caprio, but then he is puling a face. 

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, Scully said:

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, or disprove, but you can't really compare three passport type pic's with the ones you've posted above. The phrase 'clutching at straws' springs to mind. 

I covered the ones on the left incidentally, and my OH correctly identified them all except Leonardo De Caprio, but then he is puling a face. 

What Im trying to 'prove' if you can call it that, (but then again Bellingcat says its proof), is that a picture of a bloke who looks like the younger version of the cathedral enthusiast , does not an assassin make.
If indeed the pic of the younger man is indeed colonel Chepiga, then I will await the Russkies rolling him out alongside Boshirov.
If not, then I may have to eat my words and apologise.
If though , it turns out that they are 2 different people, will that change your mind on the matter ?

[Scully]

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What Im trying to 'prove' if you can call it that, (but then again Bellingcat says its proof), is that a picture of a bloke who looks like the younger version of the cathedral enthusiast , does not an assassin make.
If indeed the pic of the younger man is indeed colonel Chepiga, then I will await the Russkies rolling him out alongside Boshirov.
If not, then I may have to eat my words and apologise.
If though , it turns out that they are 2 different people, will that change your mind on the matter ?

No need to apologise if they turn out to be the same bloke ( which to be honest I think they are ) as it's all subjective, as in you have your opinion and I have mine. It is without doubt in my mind the same bloke, whether he is an assassin ( but not a very competent one ) or not remains to be seen, but I think it is more than likely. 

The Russians don't need to roll out anyone, why would they? It's not as if they feel obliged to do anything except to deny all knowledge. It's not like we can do anything about it. 

 

[panoma1]

41 minutes ago, Scully said:

 

The Russians don't need to roll out anyone, why would they? It's not as if they feel obliged to do anything except to deny all knowledge. It's not like we can do anything about it. 

 

That is exactly what Putin is doing, sticking two fingers up, denying everything, safe in the knowledge that no one will ever conclusively prove innocence or guilt and no one is gonna do anything about it anyway!.............they know it's just the West blowing hot air and urinating into the wind!

Despite Russian denials the world soon relented on the ban they were given for overwhelming evidence of state sponsored doping in sport!.....they never admitted that either, which was one of the conditions for ending the ban!.........even so they have been given the go ahead to compete again anyway!.........What does that tell them?..........."Sit tight and it will go away"

[Scully]

Its not what you know, but rather what you can prove. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

 

The Russians don't need to roll out anyone, why would they? It's not as if they feel obliged to do anything except to deny all knowledge. It's not like we can do anything about it. 

 

They already have done ?
The now infamous RT interview, where they made themselves look stupid.

 

43 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

That is exactly what Putin is doing, sticking two fingers up, denying everything, safe in the knowledge that no one will ever conclusively prove innocence or guilt and no one is gonna do anything about it anyway!.............they know it's just the West blowing hot air and urinating into the wind!

So why bother denying it, they should just have kept silent ?

 

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

Its not what you know, but rather what you can prove. 

If what the Russians really wanted was Skripal dead, why didnt they just shoot him in the head, at close range, or long range ?
Far less risk of collateral , more deniability if required..unless..
They wanted everyone to know it was them,  then shoot him in the head with a 7.62 x 54 or some other 'obviously' Russian calibre ?
The methodology of the 'attack ' makes no sense, the motive, based on what we know, makes no sense.

Im not casting doubt on this because I have a crush on Putin, or have any sort of affinity with Russia.
Its because to my cynical mind, it makes no sense.
 

[henry d]

7 hours ago, panoma1 said:

It's a Turkey? 🤔

It sure is a turkey of an argument, but hey if that`s all you have...

On 21/09/2018 at 10:14, Rewulf said:

They say, if it looks like a chicken, clucks like a chicken, and lays chicken eggs, theres a very good chance its a chicken.

Like wise, if theres chickens everywhere, chicken feed and chicken ----, and there are no other animals around, theres a very good chance its a chicken farm.
You , in your wisdom, dont bother to even look, and declare it a sheep farm.

 

[Gordon R]

When you look at the pantomime that has followed the event, it has stayed in the media far longer than the umbrella job, some years ago.

It has a calculated feel to the whole business, planned down to the last detail, including leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, comic assassins, implausible stories, hilarious Russian TV, media overdrive etc.

panoma 1 has it right.

[Scully]

52 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

They already have done ?
The now infamous RT interview, where they made themselves look stupid.

 

So why bother denying it, they should just have kept silent ?

 

If what the Russians really wanted was Skripal dead, why didnt they just shoot him in the head, at close range, or long range ?
Far less risk of collateral , more deniability if required..unless..
They wanted everyone to know it was them,  then shoot him in the head with a 7.62 x 54 or some other 'obviously' Russian calibre ?
The methodology of the 'attack ' makes no sense, the motive, based on what we know, makes no sense.

Im not casting doubt on this because I have a crush on Putin, or have any sort of affinity with Russia.
Its because to my cynical mind, it makes no sense.
 

It makes perfect sense if you look at it from the old school of Kremlin methodology, which is where Putin is firmly planted. He's old school KGB and this is what they do. He is still fighting the cold war and is firmly stuck in that era. It all makes sense. 

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

It makes perfect sense if you look at it from the old school of Kremlin methodology, which is where Putin is firmly planted. He's old school KGB and this is what they do. He is still fighting the cold war and is firmly stuck in that era. It all makes sense. 

If.
If old school soviet era , Kremlin methodology, is bungling an assassination with a potentially disaster causing material, then constructing a poorly thought out excuse, after the fact that the west has already blamed them for it anyway, then yes you could well be right.

In that case ,I say invade them now, because if their defence is anything like their offensive capability, ie 2 special forces dudes, one a holder of the rank of colonel and an equivalent award to our Victoria cross, cant kill a completely unsuspecting old man in an English town.
They would have no chance against Britains finest, would they ?
A couple of battalions of TA should do it, and a NAAFI in case they get hungry 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

If.
If old school soviet era , Kremlin methodology, is bungling an assassination with a potentially disaster causing material, then constructing a poorly thought out excuse, after the fact that the west has already blamed them for it anyway, then yes you could well be right.

In that case ,I say invade them now, because if their defence is anything like their offensive capability, ie 2 special forces dudes, one a holder of the rank of colonel and an equivalent award to our Victoria cross, cant kill a completely unsuspecting old man in an English town.
They would have no chance against Britains finest, would they ?
A couple of battalions of TA should do it, and a NAAFI in case they get hungry 

Ahhh, but you're looking at assassinations from the Hollywood Bond and Bourne methodology, whereas in reality these things are often crude and never run smooth. There are recorded examples of even 'Britains finest'; our most elite fighting men, getting it wrong and going 'blue on blue'. The Russians are firmly stuck in the 1956 Janes Edition of Cold War espionage. 😃 I think we may yet discover it was the Colonel, in the library, with the candlestick.  

[Mighty Ruler]

I don’t think the Russians took enough care because they wanted the world to know it was them, but it backfired and we have far more proof than they ever intended.

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said:

I don’t think the Russians took enough care because they wanted the world to know it was them, but it backfired and we have far more proof than they ever intended.

The 2 parts of that sentence contradict each other, just saying 😋

 

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

Ahhh, but you're looking at assassinations from the Hollywood Bond and Bourne methodology, whereas in reality these things are often crude and never run smooth. There are recorded examples of even 'Britains finest'; our most elite fighting men, getting it wrong and going 'blue on blue'. The Russians are firmly stuck in the 1956 Janes Edition of Cold War espionage. 😃 I think we may yet discover it was the Colonel, in the library, with the candlestick.  

And you have inadvertently nailed it.

Our perception of Russia is based on ?

Have you ever been to Russia, do you know any Russians ?
Me neither, but Im willing to bet our whole perception of Russia is based more in the realms of Hollywood fiction than fact.
And trust me, this is a conclusion I have only come to recently, due to recent events overriding my personal view.

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Have you ever been to Russia, do you know any Russians ?
Me neither, but Im willing to bet our whole perception of Russia is based more in the realms of Hollywood fiction than fact.
And trust me, this is a conclusion I have only come to recently, due to recent events overriding my personal view.

Wife goes there for work. They are collected at the Airport. They are not allowed to drive and have a minder with them at all times. For work it's not the place that we saw for the World Cup. 

[Scully]

I've never been to Russia, but I do know a couple and have a mate who lives in St. Petersburg. He loves it, despite once being turned over by a couple of hookers who drugged him and left him for dead. It suits him because he is a devout throwback to the 1960's; a dedicated womaniser who once told me that 'Russia knows what to do with queers'. I kid you not. 🙂

[Rewulf]

34 minutes ago, oowee said:

Wife goes there for work. They are collected at the Airport. They are not allowed to drive and have a minder with them at all times. For work it's not the place that we saw for the World Cup. 

Does your wife work for MI 6 ?

Look we all know everything in Russia is painted grey, Ive seen it on TV , but unless your wife is employed in something sensitive or high security, the 225,000 UK visitors to Russia every year dont get met at the airport, dont all get a minder, and are free to hire a car  and drive around.
Like wise , if you are feeling adventurous ,its quite possible to drive off the Chunnel and drive right through Russia and into China !
I know because my friend did it, he reported no KGB shadow car either.

Reports that the grey paint was removed where visiting football fans were staying are unconfirmed.

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Does your wife work for MI 6 ?

Look we all know everything in Russia is painted grey, Ive seen it on TV , but unless your wife is employed in something sensitive or high security, the 225,000 UK visitors to Russia every year dont get met at the airport, dont all get a minder, and are free to hire a car  and drive around.
Like wise , if you are feeling adventurous ,its quite possible to drive off the Chunnel and drive right through Russia and into China !
I know because my friend did it, he reported no KGB shadow car either.

Reports that the grey paint was removed where visiting football fans were staying are unconfirmed.

I know an old lady ( in her 80's ) who travelled there earlier this year for over five weeks. She is a musician and toured with an orchestra. I was there when she was filling out her visa application and it was almost book thick, but as far as I know she had a wonderful time, and like I said, a mate loves it. You asked if anyone had been but seem unhappy with the answer. 

None of this proves a case either way. 

[pinfireman]

On 27/09/2018 at 09:56, Rewulf said:

Nope.
Why would I ?
All this information came from a bloke who trawls the internet from the comfort of his sofa, the same internet sites you or I can look at, and comes up with ROCK SOLID PROOF 😂 that one of the 'tourists' is a member of the Russian armed forces.
But not just any old soldier, a colonel no less (at 39 ?!) spetsnaz trained (similar to SAS ,SEALS ect !) a hero of the Russian people, anointed by Putin himself. 20 medals, veteran of many conflicts, including Ukraine (?)
The man is Rambo 

Yet cant organise the murder of an unsuspecting bloke who didnt have any defences whatsoever.
And uses public transport and commercial flights to get about , whilst smiling at every CCTV camera he can ,and leaving a trail of evidence and witnesses to lead straight back to him?
Yep ,got to be him then !

You would do far better analysing where the information is coming from.
Bellingcat, being the fountain of all knowledge here, straight to BBC headlines, proven beyond all reasonable doubt ?
With no support from any official source whatsoever.
Apparently the Russians havnt denied it yet , so it must be true, laughable.

39 isn,t a young age to be a Colonel in the Russian Army.

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The 2 parts of that sentence contradict each other, just saying 😋

 

And you have inadvertently nailed it.

Our perception of Russia is based on ?

Have you ever been to Russia, do you know any Russians ?
Me neither, but Im willing to bet our whole perception of Russia is based more in the realms of Hollywood fiction than fact.
And trust me, this is a conclusion I have only come to recently, due to recent events overriding my personal view.

"recent events"? Do tell..................

9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

A bit of a light hearted look at it .
All the people on the right are Russian.

Except the last 2 , they are both Russian !

and your point is.........?

[pinfireman]

4 hours ago, panoma1 said:

That is exactly what Putin is doing, sticking two fingers up, denying everything, safe in the knowledge that no one will ever conclusively prove innocence or guilt and no one is gonna do anything about it anyway!.............they know it's just the West blowing hot air and urinating into the wind!

Despite Russian denials the world soon relented on the ban they were given for overwhelming evidence of state sponsored doping in sport!.....they never admitted that either, which was one of the conditions for ending the ban!.........even so they have been given the go ahead to compete again anyway!.........What does that tell them?..........."Sit tight and it will go away"

True!