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Rules..for the many, or the few ?


Rewulf
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1 hour ago, henry d said:

It sure is, that is what I was replying to. I don't think I could vote for someone who only had one particular political end, it's absolute madness. Look up"Ship of fools".

Still better than having none!:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Better to have no manifesto and an open mind, rather than publishing a wish list which you have no intention of ever making happen. Be honest and people will slate you - publish a pack of lies and people applaud you.

ditchman has it:-

Quote

this is a very topsy turvy world we live in at the moment

 

Spot on.

The people of Peterborough, as is their want, got out and voted heavily in favour for a Brexit MEP , who they hope , will not be in his seat very long.

Then when there is a chance to put a Brexit MP into Parliament, 6000 less people voted for him ?

Its not like those votes all went to labour either, the turnout, I believe 45 % was pretty poor.

There are no prizes for 2nd place, but its hardly  the drubbing that labour are making it out to be, I am however, disappointed, but unlike some people , thats the result, and thats democracy at work.

1 hour ago, henry d said:

It sure is, that is what I was replying to. I don't think I could vote for someone who only had one particular political end, it's absolute madness. Look up"Ship of fools".

You mean like the SNP ?

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The issue was always going to be splitting the leave vote between Brexit and Tory.

IF Farage wants to leave - he will HAVE to work with the leave tories (or at least some of them).  If he doesn't he will never get a majority, and will enable a Corbyn government (probably propped up by other remainers).

As has been said - he has not given a manifesto (other than leaving) and that will never take sufficient votes from long term Tories to win in many constituencies.

If leavers actually want to leave - they have GOT to get together.  There is no other way we will ever leave - and we will have the absolute nightmare of a remain Corbyn led Marxist government.

In my view Farage needs to have an electoral pact with whoever the new Tory leader is - and field ONE leave candidate in every constituency.  Then we will definitely leave, avoid the disaster of Corbyn and satisfy what people want.  It just needs the new Tory leader and Farage to put the countries interests ahead of party interests - and all will be well.

Sadly - I don't think it will happen.  Maybe if Boris gets in, Trump will get his friends Boris and Nigel together - and convince them that this is the way to a "really tremendous deal"!

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16 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

IF Farage wants to leave - he will HAVE to work with the leave tories (or at least some of them).  If he doesn't he will never get a majority, and will enable a Corbyn government (probably propped up by other remainers).

As has been said - he has not given a manifesto (other than leaving) and that will never take sufficient votes from long term Tories to win in many constituencies.

If leavers actually want to leave - they have GOT to get together.  There is no other way we will ever leave - and we will have the absolute nightmare of a remain Corbyn led Marxist government.

You have to picture the landscape at this time.

BP are a new party, born out of what many leavers see to be the treachery of the tories (and labour) not delivering Brexit.
At this point it would be very foolish for BP  to throw their lot in with, what may be more of the same, come the new tory  leader.

I would be surprised if secret talks hadnt already been held, but if the players have any sense, they will hold their cards close to their chests.
The tactical voting part can be ascertained when the picture is more clear.

Just now, scutt said:

Very close result I demand a peoples vote to make sure they new what they was voting for .

I dont think the labour voters knew what they were voting for 😲

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2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I would be surprised if secret talks hadnt already been held, but if the players have any sense, they will hold their cards close to their chests.

Indeed and the bottom line is this unfortunate by election result doesn't change the parliamentary arithmetic with Labour winning as seat they already held.  What it does do is show exactly what will happen if the leave vote is split.  Labour won't get a massive vote - but if leave is split they won't need it.

To be 100% clear - IF leave supporters (whether Brexit, Tory or Labour leave supporters) want to leave, they MUST find a way of fielding one candidate to firmly leave per constituency.  That should give them a proper majority to actually get this job done.

If not - there will end up being a Labour led government (possibly in some sort of support with Lib Dem, SNP, remain independents if there are any) which will not leave, will ruin the economy, loose our biggest potential trading partner (the USA) and bankrupt the country. (Not to mention probably ending all fieldsports and private gun ownership).  This would wreck the country for a generation or more and in my view is a far bigger risk than any outcome from Brexit.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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2 hours ago, scutt said:

Very close result I demand a peoples vote to make sure they new what they was voting for .

Then usher Di in for the count?

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Indeed and the bottom line is this unfortunate by election result doesn't change the parliamentary arithmetic with Labour winning as seat they already held.  What it does do is show exactly what will happen if the leave vote is split.  Labour won't get a massive vote - but if leave is split they won't need it.

To be 100% clear - IF leave supporters (whether Brexit, Tory or Labour leave supporters) want to leave, they MUST find a way of fielding one candidate to firmly leave per constituency.  That should give them a propper majority to actually get this job done.

If not - there will end up being a Labour led government (possibly in some sort of support with Lib Dem, SNP, remain independents if there are any) which will not leave, will ruin the economy, loose our biggest potential trading partner (the USA) and bankrupt the country. (Not to mention probably ending all fieldsports and private gun ownership).  This would wreck the country for a generation or more and in my view is a far bigger risk than any outcome from Brexit.

Politicos don't care about wrecking the country because their 5 star train just keeps on rolling.

I think we are probably beyond even divine intervention now?

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Does lack of a manifesto have any less meaning than one which isn’t implemented. Previous governments have gained office on the strength of manifestos which have turned out to be a pack of lies; no one can say that about the single policy of Farages intention. 

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Just now, Scully said:

Previous governments have gained office on the strength of manifestos which have turned out to be a pack of lies

True

1 minute ago, Scully said:

no one can say that about the single policy of Farages intention.

He has never won a seat - let alone formed a government, so it has never been tested.

I have heard several interviewed who simply said they voted Brexit in the EU elections because the want out of the EU, but didn't in the by election because they had no idea what their internal policies for the UK on economics, health, education etc were.

Brexit with no proper manifesto will never realise their true potential.

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Just now, JohnfromUK said:

True

He has never won a seat - let alone formed a government, so it has never been tested.

I have heard several interviewed who simply said they voted Brexit in the EU elections because the want out of the EU, but didn't in the by election because they had no idea what their internal policies for the UK on economics, health, education etc were.

Brexit with no proper manifesto will never realise their true potential.

I meant no one can claim Farage has lied, or is lying, about his intent. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

He has never won a seat - let alone formed a government, so it has never been tested.

Thats not strictly true.

He has campaigned and won seats in the EU parliament for nearly 25 years, on a anti-EU/Eurosceptic ticket, and has intentionally been a thorn in their side every one of those years.
He has consistently told people what he will do when he takes up that seat , and delivered it ..in spades.

Thats worth something surely.

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1 minute ago, Scully said:

I meant no one can claim Farage has lied, or is lying, about his intent.

I understand and don't disagree.  But when you only have one intent - that being to leave the EU (and very quickly) people understandably want to know - and what will you do after that?

Will be then 'drop out'?  Leaving for the Tommy Robinsons to take over?  Once Nigel himself left UKIP - it went to the dogs faster than greased lightning.  I'd be worried about that happening if he were ever to form a government.

What economic, health, education, defence, foreign, trade, employment policies do the intend to follow?

If we are to elect a Brexit government - and the follow through and leave the EU within 12 months ............ what happens in the next 48 months?

It is an important question.

 

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Just now, Rewulf said:

Which will be answered when we get a GE.

I hope so - it needs to be.

IF at the next GE, there is a leave 'pact' and we are offered a 'leave' candidate.  I would almost certainly support that candidate (regardless if they were a former Tory, or a new Brexit candidate).  The leave party would need a suitable manifesto having more on it other than 'just to leave the EU', but I think we can assume if there was a Tory/Brexit pact, sound economic policy, defence policy, foreign and trade policies would not be a million miles from where we are now - and certainly nowhere near the Corbyn Labour hard left stuff.

BUT if there was a Brexit candidate standing against my (leaver) present Tory candidate (and sitting MP), I would almost certainly not vote Brexit.

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44 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I understand and don't disagree.  But when you only have one intent - that being to leave the EU (and very quickly) people understandably want to know - and what will you do after that?

Will be then 'drop out'?  Leaving for the Tommy Robinsons to take over?  Once Nigel himself left UKIP - it went to the dogs faster than greased lightning.  I'd be worried about that happening if he were ever to form a government.

What economic, health, education, defence, foreign, trade, employment policies do the intend to follow?

If we are to elect a Brexit government - and the follow through and leave the EU within 12 months ............ what happens in the next 48 months?

It is an important question.

 

It is an important question, but I have more faith in the intent of Farage ( whatever that may be ) following a GE, than I have learned to have in the intent of those we have currently. 

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6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

 

I dont think the labour voters knew what they were voting for 😲

They knew exactly what they were voting for... another anti-semitic momentum drone. Though given the demographic Labour were targeting I'm pretty sure such 'attributes' would have been more than welcome. 

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9 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

48.4% Very disapointing!

Your team lost get over it, there perhaps needs to be a second vote ? !! you were robbed ?  claims of foul play no doubt. There just aren't enough stupid people concentrated in one area (even in Peterborough) to let Nige get a foothold in Westminster.

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4 minutes ago, tandytommo said:

Your team lost get over it, there perhaps needs to be a second vote ? !! you were robbed ?  claims of foul play no doubt. There just aren't enough stupid people concentrated in one area (even in Peterborough) to let Nige get a foothold in Westminster.

Grow up!

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Interesting statistic in the Peterborough by election............the two declared remainer party's (Lib Dems/Greens) jointly polled around 5000 votes and the Brexit party alone polled around 10,000! Votes!.....

Labour took the Peterborough by election by very small majority...........if we use the same logic as the Remainers, that is not enough to have the result stand, so do we get to re-run the Peterborough by election?........After all a re-run would not be undemocratic....would it? 🤔

Edited by panoma1
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1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

Interesting statistic in the Peterborough by election............the two declared remainer party's (Lib Dems/Greens) jointly polled around 5000 votes and the Brexit party alone polled around 10,000! Votes!.....

Labour took the Peterborough by election by very small majority...........if we use the same logic as the Remainers, that is not enough to have the result stand, so do we get to re-run the Peterborough by election?........After all a re-run would not be undemocratic....would it? 🤔

Makes sense to me. 

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