Jaggsy Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just watch 24 hours in Police custody, the arrogance of these knife weilding little ****es is unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jaggsy said: Just watch 24 hours in Police custody, the arrogance of these knife weilding little ****es is unbelievable. 18 years each tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I started to watch it but had to turn over, lock 'em up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggsy Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I've been to a few different countries and if you were to swagger into the Police station mouthing off like they do here you'd be in intensive care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jaggsy said: I've been to a few different countries and if you were to swagger into the Police station mouthing off like they do here you'd be in intensive care. Sounds good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 But...but...but...they probably come from single parent families or someone called them names once and should be mollycoddled, not punished. Poor mites. Or have the skin flayed off their backs before their long prison sentences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, walshie said: But...but...but...they probably come from single parent families or someone called them names once and should be mollycoddled, not punished. Poor mites. Or have the skin flayed off their backs before their long prison sentences. Make your mind up man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I'm surprised that the lad from the initial encounter got off Scot free because he obviously caused the murder to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clakk Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 In Merica guilt by association would send him down but here with rat lawyer,s like those he walks cos the law aint fit for purpose . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, clakk said: In Merica guilt by association would send him down but here with rat lawyer,s like those he walks cos the law aint fit for purpose . Its not that simple though is it, the others who were there also got long terms, the one who was such a gobby *** in front of the cameraman gave evidence against his mates and asked for protection yet still got 11 years (iirc), the rest got between that and 18. The guy in the initial encounter got off due to lack of evidence as he only said to the others that he had a blade shown to him. Not much said about the young lad who lost his life and his perceived need to carry after getting a doing a year earlier and the whole process of why that is now a common occurence, its much easier to get all wound up over a gobby young lad than try and think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, henry d said: Its not that simple though is it, the others who were there also got long terms, the one who was such a gobby *** in front of the cameraman gave evidence against his mates and asked for protection yet still got 11 years (iirc), the rest got between that and 18. The guy in the initial encounter got off due to lack of evidence as he only said to the others that he had a blade shown to him. Not much said about the young lad who lost his life and his perceived need to carry after getting a doing a year earlier and the whole process of why that is now a common occurence, its much easier to get all wound up over a gobby young lad than try and think. Do you think 18 years is reasonable? they'll be out before they're 40, the lad who was killed, his family and friends will never be free from the pain caused even if he was not much better walking around with that knife in the first place. More importantly, when those guys are released what's to say they won't kill someone else and this time it'll be someone innocent, the stats would say they are likely to offend further, even if that doesn't mean an actual murder, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out, in my opinion, you take someone's life you should do life, or be executed, as crule as some would find that, it means no more risk to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Do you think 18 years is reasonable? they'll be out before they're 40, the lad who was killed, his family and friends will never be free from the pain caused even if he was not much better walking around with that knife in the first place. More importantly, when those guys are released what's to say they won't kill someone else and this time it'll be someone innocent, the stats would say they are likely to offend further, even if that doesn't mean an actual murder, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out, in my opinion, you take someone's life you should do life, or be executed, as crule as some would find that, it means no more risk to the public. Whats to say they get proper help inside and don`t reoffend, however you chose not to rely on the stats fro Glasgow as it fits your beliefs, however it is being looked at as a strting point in London and elsewhere, so someone is actually doing something rather than bumping their gums and getting an ulcer over it, like the OP etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 For people promoting capital punishment, I wonder what they deem an acceptable level of miscarriages of justice related to a death penalty is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think a Life 4 a Life is a good staring point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: For people promoting capital punishment, I wonder what they deem an acceptable level of miscarriages of justice related to a death penalty is. We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Snoozer said: I think a Life 4 a Life is a good staring point ? I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 If guns were more readily available would these stabbings be shootings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Scully said: We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment. You've answered my question with further questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: You've answered my question with further questions. There's a Politician in him somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 46 minutes ago, henry d said: Whats to say they get proper help inside and don`t reoffend, however you chose not to rely on the stats fro Glasgow as it fits your beliefs, however it is being looked at as a strting point in London and elsewhere, so someone is actually doing something rather than bumping their gums and getting an ulcer over it, like the OP etc I appreciate what your saying but we don't live in a perfect world where everyone can be fixed, although I'd like to see that happen, I don't think we should play Russian roulette with future innocent victims by releasing potentially very dangerous people back on the streets, to put it another way, let's protect decent people before proven offenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 27 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: You've answered my question with further questions. Ok. I don’t deem any level of miscarriage of justice as acceptable. Saying that, with the technology available today, the chances of a miscarriage of justice should be minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Scully said: Ok. I don’t deem any level of miscarriage of justice as acceptable. Saying that, with the technology available today, the chances of a miscarriage of justice should be minimal. Do you want to rephrase any of that, if not I put it to you that you are in fact not in favour of the death penalty? (I wish the Brexit discussions were this straightforward). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I would put a further restriction on a death penalty of "proven beyond any doubt" otherwise it defaults to the lower test of "beyond reasonable doubt" which for murder should mean a whole life sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Do you want to rephrase any of that, if not I put it to you that you are in fact not in favour of the death penalty? (I wish the Brexit discussions were this straightforward). No. I think it’s clear enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Scully said: We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment. Good choice of words. You say we need overwhelming evidence to lock someone up but also assert that it is not uncommon for someone to kill again and that is a miscarriage of justice and you use that to reinforce the life means life or capital punishment route. If someone is capable of being rehabilitated then you have removed their possibility of being a positive member of society at some stage because they might reoffend. Life for a life is also interesting, would people who advocate the same rule for those who kill someone using their car when under the influence, bad driving, speeding etc? Same as the young people who carry a knife, they don`t intend (generalisation) to go and kill someone, they take it to deter someone, its similar to getting into my car after a skinful (I don`t) and I unintentionally kill someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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