Hypothetical Question Canada Geese.

[Yellow Bear]

27 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Scolopax... I agree Avery has a good chance of winning 

Slightly tongue in cheek - but are Avery and "wild justice" going to recruit  pest scarers who will spend days in the fields "shooing" birds off crops for crop protection in place of those shooting and catching and "birth controlling" the relevant species so numbers do not explode even more exponentially ?

With respect to CG the OP has obviously never been is some of the (sub)urban green spaces where they cause a monumental health hazard.  That the numbers have reached pest proportions is evidence in my mind that the fowlers are not reducing numbers in season (I learnt over 50 years ago how awful they taste if not in a highly spiced dish)

Edited April 6, 2019 by Yellow Bear

[grrclark]

1 minute ago, islandgun said:

As i said earlier and as grrclark has pointed out. if its a pest/problem then the GL is about removal [as best as possible] . comparisons have been made with pigeon and red deer...rats mink etc etc..personally i would not want to take part in a shoot that kills large numbers of geese but im happy to harvest as many rabbits as i can.. hypocrisy !

Scolopax... I agree Avery has a good chance of winning 

I think that there is a degree of hypocrisy in all of us IG.

If we stick on the pigeon theme there are a lot that shoot over stubble for the sake of a big bag and often easy access into the field for picking up, etc.  In that context and under the auspice of crop protection it is really quite tenuous as what protection does a stubble field need?  We justify that by saying that the bird remains a pest throughout it's life and will fly to a non harvested field or onto drilling/fresh growth.  The protection element of the GL doesn't just extend to the field that we happen to be shooting on, at least that is our justification.

In that respect our defence under the GL is sketchy at best, I believe, but we are happy to fit a contrived argument to suit our purposes for the sale of a good day.

I recently had the discussion with the OP, over a pint, about his trips to shoot doves in Argentina and rock pigeons in SA.  Whilst I can understand why many have that on their shooting bucket list it does not appeal to me at all, despite being entirely justifiable in terms of crop protection.  I would get nothing from shooting 1000 birds a day, other than a sore shoulder and a headache!

Likewise driven days personally hold very little appeal for me, standing in a line whilst a load of others do hard graft to flush birds over me, just doesn't float my boat.

Decoying or flight line shooting of pigeons does have more appeal, because there is bigger skill element involved beyond just making a shot, but that is nothing other than an admitted sop to my own conscience.  I have no issues at all with shooting crows or magpies, no sop to my conscience required.  Absolute hypocrisy I know.

Where my head is that although I might not choose to shoot 1000 doves a day in Argentina or 100+ geese or 50 driven pheasants, it certainly doesn't give me any right to criticise or judge those who do have the desire to do that, providing that it is done both lawfully and ethically (i.e. with reason) and competently.

I am content to kill things and the fact that my own threshold for what is enough killing may differ from someone else's it doesn't make me morally superior or a greater sportsman/countryman than someone else who has a different threshold.

 I suspect that you look at things in a similar same way.

[Rewulf]

20 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Where my head is that although I might not choose to shoot 1000 doves a day in Argentina or 100+ geese or 50 driven pheasants, it certainly doesn't give me any right to criticise or judge those who do have the desire to do that, providing that it is done both lawfully and ethically (i.e. with reason) and competently.

I am content to kill things and the fact that my own threshold for what is enough killing may differ from someone else's it doesn't make me morally superior or a greater sportsman/countryman than someone else who has a different threshold.

+1

I have a rule, do not kill just for the sake of it, there has to be a reason.
It might be that a farmer says 'Im struggling with rabbit numbers' or 'these crows/maggies are bothering my lambs' , 'deal with these foxes'
This is pest control, I have a reason.

I dont do 'sporting' pigeon shooting, but I might shoot them if asked by farmer/groundsman.
I dont do game shooting, I cant think of a 'reason'
Whatever you choose to do with your shooting , thats up to you, and Ill support that, as long as its legal.

If someone is given a job to cull Canadas , fine by me.
Like Grr says , not one bats an eye at 100s of dead pigeons, are pigeons worth less than a Canada ?

 

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Slightly tongue in cheek - but are Avery and "wild justice" going to recruit  pest scarers who will spend days in the fields "shooing" birds off crops for crop protection in place of those shooting and catching and "birth controlling" the relevant species so numbers do not explode even more exponentially ?

With respect to CG the OP has obviously never been is some of the (sub)urban green spaces where they cause a monumental health hazard.  That the numbers have reached pest proportions is evidence in my mind that the fowlers are not reducing numbers in season (I learnt over 50 years ago how awful they taste if not in a highly spiced dish)

Im sure many of the wild justice are quite happy to dip their KFC in some tomato sauce whilst berating others on their computer, and this will be their sole involvement in saving the world.. My local primary school are unable to use their playing field, due to greylag faeces......Ironically .yesterday i was given the opportunity to join the "goose project" which allows me to shoot Greylags until the end of April and to sell their meat. given that my menu includes, Rabbit, Venison, seafood etc. I am tempted, not least because some already in the project,  dump the unwanted birds, and my belief that a sustainable wild harvest is preferable to intensively reared meat, especially if the wild animal is a pest !

 

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

I think that there is a degree of hypocrisy in all of us IG.

If we stick on the pigeon theme there are a lot that shoot over stubble for the sake of a big bag and often easy access into the field for picking up, etc.  In that context and under the auspice of crop protection it is really quite tenuous as what protection does a stubble field need?  We justify that by saying that the bird remains a pest throughout it's life and will fly to a non harvested field or onto drilling/fresh growth.  The protection element of the GL doesn't just extend to the field that we happen to be shooting on, at least that is our justification.

In that respect our defence under the GL is sketchy at best, I believe, but we are happy to fit a contrived argument to suit our purposes for the sale of a good day.

I recently had the discussion with the OP, over a pint, about his trips to shoot doves in Argentina and rock pigeons in SA.  Whilst I can understand why many have that on their shooting bucket list it does not appeal to me at all, despite being entirely justifiable in terms of crop protection.  I would get nothing from shooting 1000 birds a day, other than a sore shoulder and a headache!

Likewise driven days personally hold very little appeal for me, standing in a line whilst a load of others do hard graft to flush birds over me, just doesn't float my boat.

Decoying or flight line shooting of pigeons does have more appeal, because there is bigger skill element involved beyond just making a shot, but that is nothing other than an admitted sop to my own conscience.  I have no issues at all with shooting crows or magpies, no sop to my conscience required.  Absolute hypocrisy I know.

Where my head is that although I might not choose to shoot 1000 doves a day in Argentina or 100+ geese or 50 driven pheasants, it certainly doesn't give me any right to criticise or judge those who do have the desire to do that, providing that it is done both lawfully and ethically (i.e. with reason) and competently.

I am content to kill things and the fact that my own threshold for what is enough killing may differ from someone else's it doesn't make me morally superior or a greater sportsman/countryman than someone else who has a different threshold.

 I suspect that you look at things in a similar same way.

Agree completely, I would not want to shoot a 1000 doves anymore than i would want catch boxes of mackerel [which would be easy at times]. It would soon loose its appeal.. as you say the Doves are considered a pest, and those that partook in the shoot also paid "good money" into the local economy.  I would like edible meat to be consumed if possible, but understand that at times that isn't always possible... I'll just carry on killing things on an almost daily basis and sell them for profit.. does that make me a hypocrite ?....  to right

Edited April 6, 2019 by islandgun

[Pigeon Shredder.]

4 hours ago, scolopax said:

jeez this is hard.....imagine an officer of the law was to come over to you in the field and ask you why you are shooting Canada geese/ Egyptian geese...what would your reply to him be ?

Sorry to have missed 4 hours of dialogue have been out shooting.

To answer your question, l would first off ask why he wanted to know, secondly if asked l would show him the copy of the GL that l carry at all time ‘s when out shooting , thirdly if asked l would show him my permission to shoot paperwork which all of the landowners l shoot for have completed and signed.

ls that sufficient ?

[grrclark]

56 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Im sure many of the wild justice are quite happy to dip their KFC in some tomato sauce whilst berating others on their computer, and this will be their sole involvement in saving the world.. My local primary school are unable to use their playing field, due to greylag faeces......Ironically .yesterday i was given the opportunity to join the "goose project" which allows me to shoot Greylags until the end of April and to sell their meat. given that my menu includes, Rabbit, Venison, seafood etc. I am tempted, not least because some already in the project,  dump the unwanted birds, and my belief that a sustainable wild harvest is preferable to intensively reared meat, especially if the wild animal is a pest !

If you can use that meat instead of it going to waste and if it augments your income whilst helping to resolve the problem of fouling or crop damage then it absolutely is win win in every sense.

Given you have a limited window how would Greylag work as a jerky or as part of a cured sausage, some Scottish island charcuterie using local produce would be awesome and could sell by mail order easily.

[scolopax]

Just now, grrclark said:

If you can use that meat instead of it going to waste and if it augments your income whilst helping to resolve the problem of fouling or crop damage then it absolutely is win win in every sense.

Given you have a limited window how would Greylag work as a jerky or as part of a cured sausage, some Scottish island charcuterie using local produce would be awesome and could sell by mail order easily.

thanks, very comprehensive

 

now any chance of answering my first question to you, why do the Egyptian geese on your permission need removing ?

[grrclark]

@scolopax you quoted the wrong person, i suspect you clicked on the quote button just as i replied to IG.

 

[Pigeon Shredder.]

34 minutes ago, scolopax said:

thanks, very comprehensive

 

now any chance of answering my first question to you, why do the Egyptian geese on your permission need removing ?

Same answer as 7 hours ago, PEST on property same as Canada’s, same complement, same landowner, same permission.

[islandgun]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

If you can use that meat instead of it going to waste and if it augments your income whilst helping to resolve the problem of fouling or crop damage then it absolutely is win win in every sense.

Given you have a limited window how would Greylag work as a jerky or as part of a cured sausage, some Scottish island charcuterie using local produce would be awesome and could sell by mail order easily.

Now that is a brilliant idea   a Hebridean game  saucisson,,,. I have a grinder and casings...if you get a long dodgy package in the post, dont  blame your wife,  just check the post mark.. ATB

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by islandgun

[Saltings]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 17:49, islandgun said:

/Now that is a brilliant idea   a Hebridean game  saucisson,,,. I have a grinder and casings...if you get a long dodgy package in the post, dont  blame your wife,  just check the post mark.. ATB

 

I do not have a problem with any game in season being used,  out of season culling to me the meat must not be wasted as in my eyes its slaughter  I have shot for many years ,have always asked for more  pheasant / partridge  than a brace as much as eight or ten brace as others walk away  with nothing,    geese out of season on gl      if the meat is used again I don't have a problem , throwing any resource food away bothers me I have been brought up to respect the life you are taking and must respect life , taught to me at about  10 yr old by my grandfather in his eighties ,  respect your quarry  and any food source  taught by a man who never heard of supermarkets,   or a  sub sistent lifestyle,    with  all sorts of farmed beef / lamb  / goat/ pork / game pie / rabbit stew /venison stew/ not to mention  / pike / zander / perch /fresh water eels / trout /salmon and the joy  of putting said foods on the table with nothing wasted  the scraps from the table fed the dog  potatoes  and veg from the garden etc I still think this is the best lifestyle  with many seasonal foods a varied food sources  rather than supermarket **** is the way forward 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Saltings

[Saltings]

54 minutes ago, Saltings said:

 

same a previous post 😀

Edited April 14, 2019 by Saltings

[Dekers]

7 hours ago, Saltings said:

I do not have a problem with any game in season being used,  out of season culling to me the meat must not be wasted as in my eyes its slaughter  I have shot for many years ,have always asked for more  pheasant / partridge  than a brace as much as eight or ten brace as others walk away  with nothing,    geese out of season on gl      if the meat is used again I don't have a problem , throwing any resource food away bothers me I have been brought up to respect the life you are taking and must respect life , taught to me at about  10 yr old by my grandfather in his eighties ,  respect your quarry  and any food source  taught by a man who never heard of supermarkets,   or a  sub sistent lifestyle,    with  all sorts of farmed beef / lamb  / goat/ pork / game pie / rabbit stew /venison stew/ not to mention  / pike / zander / perch /fresh water eels / trout /salmon and the joy  of putting said foods on the table with nothing wasted  the scraps from the table fed the dog  potatoes  and veg from the garden etc I still think this is the best lifestyle  with many seasonal foods a varied food sources  rather than supermarket **** is the way forward 

Very noble but I see obvious conditions, shooting any wildlife out of season (if they have one) is Pest control of one sort or another.

I don't see any mention of you eating rats/mice/fox/wasps/fleas/bedbugs/Glis Glis/Parakeet/mole/etc/etc.

I do a lot of Pest Control and I don't intend to eat everything I deal with!

The Canada Goose is a pest species. It may be shot throughout the year in England and Wales.

The birds have been causing mayhem everywhere from the Henley Royal Regatta to Heathrow Airport.
Canada geese and Greylag etc fall under several categories of 'general licence' which means that they can be controlled.

If you are in a position to eat some thats just fine, but I have no intention of curtailing my Pest Control activities because I am unable to eat everything I control.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Dekers

[islandgun]

10 hours ago, Saltings said:

I do not have a problem with any game in season being used,  out of season culling to me the meat must not be wasted as in my eyes its slaughter  I have shot for many years ,have always asked for more  pheasant / partridge  than a brace as much as eight or ten brace as others walk away  with nothing,    geese out of season on gl      if the meat is used again I don't have a problem , throwing any resource food away bothers me I have been brought up to respect the life you are taking and must respect life , taught to me at about  10 yr old by my grandfather in his eighties ,  respect your quarry  and any food source  taught by a man who never heard of supermarkets,   or a  sub sistent lifestyle,    with  all sorts of farmed beef / lamb  / goat/ pork / game pie / rabbit stew /venison stew/ not to mention  / pike / zander / perch /fresh water eels / trout /salmon and the joy  of putting said foods on the table with nothing wasted  the scraps from the table fed the dog  potatoes  and veg from the garden etc I still think this is the best lifestyle  with many seasonal foods a varied food sources  rather than supermarket **** is the way forward 

I completely agree, edible meat should whenever possible be eaten by something,  My ability to access wild meat is the main reason i shoot, especially as my occupation is growing or catching food for others... there are as many reasons to shoot as there are people who shoot, most perfectly legitimate.. 

[Scully]

9 hours ago, Dekers said:

Very noble but I see obvious conditions, shooting any wildlife out of season (if they have one) is Pest control of one sort or another.

I don't see any mention of you eating rats/mice/fox/wasps/fleas/bedbugs/Glis Glis/Parakeet/mole/etc/etc.

I do a lot of Pest Control and I don't intend to eat everything I deal with!

The Canada Goose is a pest species. It may be shot throughout the year in England and Wales.

The birds have been causing mayhem everywhere from the Henley Royal Regatta to Heathrow Airport.
Canada geese and Greylag etc fall under several categories of 'general licence' which means that they can be controlled.

If you are in a position to eat some thats just fine, but I have no intention of curtailing my Pest Control activities because I am unable to eat everything I control.

This. 

[grahamch]

This sort of thread annoys me intensely. Folk justifying killing large numbers of so called pest species of geese on the general licence. It does our sport no favours at all and would create great ill will if publicised by Packham and his ilk. 

[Dekers]

12 minutes ago, grahamch said:

This sort of thread annoys me intensely. Folk justifying killing large numbers of so called pest species of geese on the general licence. It does our sport no favours at all and would create great ill will if publicised by Packham and his ilk. 

If there is justification  under the GL then what's wrong, and there is a big difference between "Sport" and Pest Control.

The GL is not there for sporting reasons.

I don't have to justify my Pest Control activities to the likes of Packham, I have to comply with a raft of legal requirements and satisfy my clients.

[Rewulf]

16 hours ago, grahamch said:

This sort of thread annoys me intensely. Folk justifying killing large numbers of so called pest species of geese on the general licence. It does our sport no favours at all and would create great ill will if publicised by Packham and his ilk. 

For some people its not about 'sport' its about simple economics.
They are protecting their livelyhood , or getting someone to protect it for them.
They arent 'so called' pest species, they are pests, and the law has seen fit to produce a licence to control them.
If your house became infested with rats or mice, you would want them gone wouldnt you ?
Would you insist on not letting them go to 'waste' ?

And to say that whatever you shoot has to be eaten is utterly ridiculous, if you are protecting lambs from fox or corvid, are you going to eat them ?
If your job is pest control, do you have to eat every single thing you trap or shoot,?
Thats townie talk, and Im a townie !

[Pigeon Shredder.]

Just watched a video on the tube, Oregon Cacklers with Team Deadfowl, now that’s Canada’s shooting.

No Wildfowlers were hurt during the shooting of this film.

 

[Perazzishot]

The issue of wastage of edible goose meat is purely and entirely at the door of Government!

If they made them specifically Greylags, Canada and Eygeptian able to enter the food chain then waste would not be an issue as part of legitimate pest control same woodpigeon.

Make them of no commercial gain to the shooter to stop commercial slaughter, but to pass foc to game dealers to enter the food chain perfectly legal has to be proposed!