Absolutely Unbelievable

[Newbie to this]

7 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

 The Brexit Party will not participate in a GE, it is purely a tool to annoy the EU by cluttering up their nice cosy EU Parliament with people who oppose the EU.

 

RS

But what is to oppose, the EU is just a free (I use the word free loosely) trade agreement between likeminded countries is in not! 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Newbie to this

[RockySpears]

  As for min. wage/Universal Basic Income there are some pretty good arguments as to why it may, infact, be inevitable.

Jordan Peterson (look him up if you need to) has an argument that goes like this:

The Defence Services, army, navy, RAF etc etc are always on the lookout for recruits.  They will take most any person they can get and train them up.  They are very good at training people and are very motivated to get new servicemen and women.

  Even the military have an IQ minimum for entry, it is set around 83.  Below this level, the services vast experience has shown them that people are un-trainable.

The number in society with an IQ under this level is very well known from The Bell Curve (look it up if you need to).

10% of society are below 83 IQ.

If the army etc cannot train these people, who can?  What can they do?

My wife called me in to see the telly a couple of weeks back.  Some bald, tubby chef was saying  how amazing this machine was;  what did it do?

  It planted lettuce, it weeded the rows, it picked the lettuce, it cleaned it and wrapped it in cellophane, ready for the supermarket.

If we do not need people to plant and pick lettuce, what can we train them to do?  Code?

10% of our population is too stupid to be worth employing (why min. wage is a nonsense, some jobs just are not worth £10 per hour) !!

  The implications are astonishiing,  Universal Baasic Income may well be inevitable,

 

RS

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

the EU is just a free (I use the word free loosely) trade agreement between likeminded countries is in not!  

It makes our Law.

It takes our cash.

It controls our immigration.

It Lords it over every minutiae of our lives.

It is Government with knobs on.

That's what it is,

 

RS

 

 

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

10% of our population is too stupid to be worth employing

Shame there are only 600 odd places in Westminster.  Most of them seem to be drawn from that 10%.

[K85]

When we had industries they used to work sweeping up 

[discobob]

On 12/05/2019 at 13:58, JohnfromUK said:

A number of places have tried it on a small scale (Google Universal Basic Income), none with much success it would seem.  What is the point in taking £XXX from someone monthly in tax and paying it straight back again, having 'processed and administered it' by a large civil service department (who don't work for nothing)?

It is a typical socialist "we know how to use your money better than you do" approach.

Everybody should be able to retain as much of their (earned and held) money as possible after the bare minimum necessary to pay for essentials like Health Service, Defence, Roads, and supporting the sick, elderly, veterans and disabled.  Free handouts to the lazy and feckless should be discontinued with 'basic' foods and accommodation provided by vouchers That cannot be exchanged for alcohol, drugs, Sky subscriptions, cigarettes, hoidays for those who will not comply.

Lets really concentrate on helping the genuine cases and leave the bone idle to learn that 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'!

My wife has a friend, known her for over 40 years. She has a daughter much the same age as our eldest. She has never been married, got pregnant by a contractor who was over from France for a couple of weeks. She did have a house and worked full time prior to this. Now, since getting pregnant she has

1. Only worked 18 hours a week because it will affect her benefits even though her daughter has been in full time education for the past 12 years

2. Had  45 hours per week of childcare before starting school in a top local nursery that other people where both partners worked couldn't afford.

3. Got all her dental etc free - whereas we can't even get to see a dentist.

4. Has multiple overseas holidays a year. This year she has already been to New York with her daughter, is planning a week away in June when her daughter finishes school, and another week in August.

5. Has recently purchased a 1 year old car which she says she could have paid cash for but took a few K on finance when there was nothing wrong with her 5 year old car. My car is 6 years old, my wife's is 15 years old

6. Her daughter has the latest phone every year - while my wife and I have an iphone 6s, my youngest (14) has an SE, and my eldest a Galaxy S7

7. Has paid off £5000 on her mortgage in a lump sum - which is nearly all paid for (from benefits)

8. Managed to invest tens of thousands into a property company called Harlequin which turned out to be a con and now appears to be getting a lot of this money back from the government who isn't asking how she could afford to invest this money anyway while on benefits. And apparently it is plus interest at 8%!!

9. Takes her daughter designer shopping - albeit to Cheshire Oaks - all the time for her clothes.

10. Is currently crowing that because they are a low income, she will get an extra £30 per week for he daughter to go to the local college. Funnily enough, her daughter wanted to join the army but she was below their minimum standards.

Meanwhile I am working 60 hours per week including Commuting, my wife is working 20-30 hours (elderly parents to look after as well). We are entitled to sweet FA - not even child benefit and we haven't even booked a holiday for this year because of the costs.

So I fully agree with you JohnfromUK.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

This country is broken, the SNOWFLAKES want to give all the good stuff away to people who do NOT deserve it!

[Newbie to this]

Socialism at work

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Socialism at work

Or NOT as the case may be .

I have family members that have never worked, not a day, who live a life I simply cannot afford to with my 50 -60 hours a week.
Claim the kids have low spectrum autism or 'ADHD' its worth an extra £3500 per year, per child, to claim theyre disabled, I know the kids, there is nothing wrong with them.
One niece has just come back from Mexico, an £8000 holiday, and is going to Thailand later in the year.

Why would they want to go to work, when a few lies and the nanny state will pay you to live comfortably and travel the world ?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Why would they want to go to work, when a few lies and the nanny state will pay you to live comfortably and travel the world ?

The reasons should be;

• Because the few lies should see you suffer penalties for lying (benefits removal and punishment)
• Because whilst those in need to help (the ill, disabled, elderly) should receive 'communal' help and assistance, either from the state or local authority, - this should be to make them comfortable. warm, well fed, properly cared for etc, not to provide a life of luxury.

The state is far too soft on 'spongers' who have no shame about sponging - and yet in many cases the genuinely needy miss out because they are too proud to seek assistance.

[Newbie to this]

20 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Or NOT as the case may be .

, yeah, I stand corrected

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Because the few lies should see you suffer penalties for lying (benefits removal and punishment)

This is how it should be , but how can they investigate the best part of a million people, and PROVE they are doing it , when doctors and social workers will back them up.
The compensation claims for distress caused would be astronomical.

But just say it did lead to a conviction, and /or removal of benefits, no government in this country would survive the poo storm of 'starving' children thrown on the streets.
Its a rock and a hard place situation where, even if someone in power so much as mentions a reduction in benefits, you can see the popularity of that government drop expotentionally .

As the lazy and feckless grow , the tax paying public who support it diminish.
There will come a point where the mooted socialist government will gain power, because there will be a majority who want to hang on to their benefits who support it.
This situation is not that far away.

What they dont realise is, once the money runs out, those benefits will dry up, its just simple economics.
The problem is, they wont have the mental capacity to work that out, as due to benefit mentality, they didnt bother learning about such things.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What they dont realise is, once the money runs out, those benefits will dry up, its just simple economics.

Agreed - but the 'problem' from my point of view (which many would see as selfish) is this; as the money runs out, they will raid the savings of those who have any, the 'non state' pensions of those who have them, the 'wealth' of those who have any and give it to the idle and feckless to have their foreign holidays, Sky subscriptions, new cars etc.

I am considered 'lucky' because I have sufficient to live on after early (at 60) retirement.  But actually, it wasn't just 'luck'.  I worked hard and saved, and have lived with very 'limited' luxuries all my life.  To have all that I have carefully saved taken away from me and 'handed out' to others who have been financially irresponsible so that they can live a life I was never able to afford is not palatable.

[Rewulf]

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Agreed - but the 'problem' from my point of view (which many would see as selfish) is this; as the money runs out, they will raid the savings of those who have any, the 'non state' pensions of those who have them, the 'wealth' of those who have any and give it to the idle and feckless to have their foreign holidays, Sky subscriptions, new cars etc.

I am considered 'lucky' because I have sufficient to live on after early (at 60) retirement.  But actually, it wasn't just 'luck'.  I worked hard and saved, and have lived with very 'limited' luxuries all my life.  To have all that I have carefully saved taken away from me and 'handed out' to others who have been financially irresponsible so that they can live a life I was never able to afford is not palatable.

I would get it spent sharpish then !

I understand, but you came from a generation where this was normal practice, these days I talk to young(ish) people , who have no intention of saving, or paying into 'proper' pension pots, no intention of buying property (mainly as they cant afford it) and no 'plan'
YOLO , or live for today is the motto, I could digress slightly and say this particularly applies to 'English' types, whilst it is not unusual to find 'Asian' people in their late 20s with several houses (mortgaged)
They know there is a ready market for rental, where benefits claimants, and the young and carefree, will rapidly fill them and pay those mortgages.

This isnt a dig, just a example of differing attitudes among cultures.

But whichever way you look at it , does not bode well for the future.

[RockySpears]

4 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Socialism at work

  Try this for a Lefty definition of itself.  Wait for the part about the death and destruction Socialism has caused over the last 100 years,

https://www.bbc.com/ideas/videos/a-brief-history-of-socialism/p074yyff

 

RS

[Vince Green]

On ‎13‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 12:38, RockySpears said:

.

The number in society with an IQ under this level is very well known from The Bell Curve (look it up if you need to).

10% of society are below 83 IQ.

10% of our population is too stupid to be worth employing (why min. wage is a nonsense, some jobs just are not worth £10 per hour) !!

  The implications are astonishiing,  Universal Baasic Income may well be inevitable,

 

 

The real truth is we do not need the people, years ago simple Darwinism kept down the numbers of people unable to take care of themselves. Harsh reality but it fulfilled a biological purpose. The welfare state etc is distorting what would have been natural selection.

Now because of free movement and migration we have created a honey pot effect as well

[243deer]

On 14/05/2019 at 10:08, Rewulf said:

What they dont realise is, once the money runs out, those benefits will dry up, its just simple economics.
 

That is how it should be RW but ....

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

The money ran out a long time ago - most governments have been using theoretical money for some time

Think Germany is any better?

https://commodity.com/debt-clock/germany/

I don't think my screen is wide enough for the USA debt figure

proper economics - not spending what you do not have or can reasonably afford to repay

political economics - borrow whatever you can to win votes

[Rewulf]

[JohnfromUK]

On 14/05/2019 at 10:08, Rewulf said:

What they dont realise is, once the money runs out, those benefits will dry up, its just simple economics.

The government of the time will just borrow more.  What is ironic is that it is (mainly) the young who are supporting Corbyn and his free spending ideas - and it is they - and thier children whose future they are mortgaging and who will be saddled with debt (in addition to that which my generation will have left them (much incurred by Gordon Brown's legacy not to mention selling all the gold at the bottom of the market!).  At least Hammond and immediate predecessors have hugely reduced the rate at which the debt is growing.  That will reverse under Corbyn and with rising interest rates, it will grow exponentially.

Even in these low interest rates times we spend considerably MORE on interest (about 48 billion a year) than we do on Defence (about 36 billion) - and that is quite hard to believe, but true.

Possibly even more stunning is that we spend only twice what we spend on interest on paying old age Pensions (92 billion).

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The government of the time will just borrow more.  What is ironic is that it is (mainly) the young who are supporting Corbyn and his free spending ideas - and it is they - and thier children whose future they are mortgaging and who will be saddled with debt (in addition to that which my generation will have left them (much incurred by Gordon Brown's legacy not to mention selling all the gold at the bottom of the market!).  At least Hammond and immediate predecessors have hugely reduced the rate at which the debt is growing.  That will reverse under Corbyn and with rising interest rates, it will grow exponentially.

Even in these low interest rates times we spend considerably MORE on interest (about 48 billion a year) than we do on Defence (about 36 billion) - and that is quite hard to believe, but true.

Possibly even more stunning is that we spend only twice what we spend on interest on paying old age Pensions (92 billion).

But they will never see the problem, it is self perpetuating!

[Newbie to this]

36 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The government of the time will just borrow more.  What is ironic is that it is (mainly) the young who are supporting Corbyn and his free spending ideas - and it is they - and thier children whose future they are mortgaging and who will be saddled with debt (in addition to that which my generation will have left them (much incurred by Gordon Brown's legacy not to mention selling all the gold at the bottom of the market!).  At least Hammond and immediate predecessors have hugely reduced the rate at which the debt is growing.  That will reverse under Corbyn and with rising interest rates, it will grow exponentially.

Even in these low interest rates times we spend considerably MORE on interest (about 48 billion a year) than we do on Defence (about 36 billion) - and that is quite hard to believe, but true.

Possibly even more stunning is that we spend only twice what we spend on interest on paying old age Pensions (92 billion).

 

27 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But they will never see the problem, it is self perpetuating!

Agreed, when you ask Corbyn followers about the national debt, the response is who do we owe the money too. And then they spout on about some Zionist (a word they use to justify their anti-Semitism) conspiracy, and how we won't need to pay it back under Corbyn's reign. Apparently he is just going to cancel it.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

the response is who do we owe the money too. And then they spout on about some Zionist (a word they use to justify their anti-Semitism) conspiracy, and how we won't need to pay it back under Corbyn's reign. Apparently he is just going to cancel it.

The answer is not Zionists, but actually:

The UK owes approximately £1.8 trillion to a host of different financial organisations.

• British insurance companies and pension funds own almost a third: about 30%.
• The Bank of England owns about a quarter or 25%.
• Other UK financial institutions like banks own 17%, just over a sixth.
• Another quarter of the government’s debts, about 27%,are owed to foreign institutions. That means the debt and the interest on it is paid out to organisations overseas.

[Newbie to this]

29 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The answer is not Zionists, but actually:

The UK owes approximately £1.8 trillion to a host of different financial organisations.

• British insurance companies and pension funds own almost a third: about 30%.
• The Bank of England owns about a quarter or 25%.
• Other UK financial institutions like banks own 17%, just over a sixth.
• Another quarter of the government’s debts, about 27%,are owed to foreign institutions. That means the debt and the interest on it is paid out to organisations overseas.

Yes but you are missing their conspiracy point. All of the above are either owned or controlled by Zionist (the people who must be hated).

I must add for clarification I am not one of them, just pointing out from personal discussions I've had with them. The Jews sorry Zionists are to blame for everything, according to them.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Newbie to this

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

The Jews sorry Zionists are to blame for everything, according to them.

Well, I suppose in the limit  it does all go back to Adam and Eve (if you are religious or gullible) , though these days we might have to say either Adam and Evan, or Ada and Eve to allow for 'diversity'.

But underlying all of this is that the only real 'conspiracy' is the idea that we are reducing the debt.  We are not - all we are doing with the present 'soft austerity' is reducing the rate at which the debt is increasing.

[243deer]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Well, I suppose in the limit  it does all go back to Adam and Eve (if you are religious or gullible) , though these days we might have to say either Adam and Evan, or Ada and Eve to allow for 'diversity'.

You do not have to go back quite that far, William III was supposed to have started the national debt. As he was Dutch maybe we should ask them for retrospective compensation .......

Chances of Corbyn or any other political party for that matter not borrowing even more money to buy votes is pretty non-existent 

[Newbie to this]

22 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Well, I suppose in the limit  it does all go back to Adam and Eve (if you are religious or gullible) , though these days we might have to say either Adam and Evan, or Ada and Eve to allow for 'diversity'.

But underlying all of this is that the only real 'conspiracy' is the idea that we are reducing the debt.  We are not - all we are doing with the present 'soft austerity' is reducing the rate at which the debt is increasing.

And that is the bit they can't seem to grasp. 

And what with God sorry Corbyn ( I've heard him called that more than once) promising to fund everyone who's gullible enough to believe him, that debt is set to sky rocket. But it's ok because we won't need to pay it back, because all of these Jews sorry Zionists that control the World and money are going to have their world removed from under them. Sound familiar, but don't dare point out the connections.

They truly are lunatics!