U turn on revoking of 3 licences

[rayhallam]

gove has turned over natural England revocation of 3 licences to shoot birds and reverted back to how it was before except of slight changes regarding certain sites

[Capt Christopher Jones]

Gove needs the votes

[mossy835]

this could help him get votes weather it helps who knows.

[Katzenjammer]

Yup we are essentially back to where we were.

What concerns me and should concern all of us is the cost of this publicity stunt pulled by Packham.  The cost to individuals, companies, organisations and the Public Purse!  It will have cost millions if costed out and for what at the end of the day?  You can be done for wasting police time so surely you can be done for a gross waste of public money?

And this is what should happen surely and the bill laid at Packham's door?  To this end perhaps we should all now spare some time to write to Gove as head of DEFRA and copy in to the Treasury, National Audit office and any other relevant person or organisation such as local MP's, the papers that supported our cause etc, asking them to consider prosecution and public condemnation of Packham and his pals.

In hindsight Defra and NE should have done what Scotland is doing, let the licences stand for this year and immediately review and revise them to make them watertight.

Have saved and printed off and read the new licences I think one licence could have been issued because much of the blurb is essentially the same.  There could have been separate sub sections covering each area of activity and the relevant species with indicators to look in the footnotes if there was anything particularly relevant to a species or sub section. 

[Dibble]

7 minutes ago, Katzenjammer said:

Yup we are essentially back to where we were.

What concerns me and should concern all of us is the cost of this publicity stunt pulled by Packham.  The cost to individuals, companies, organisations and the Public Purse!  It will have cost millions if costed out and for what at the end of the day?  You can be done for wasting police time so surely you can be done for a gross waste of public money?

And this is what should happen surely and the bill laid at Packham's door?  To this end perhaps we should all now spare some time to write to Gove as head of DEFRA and copy in to the Treasury, National Audit office and any other relevant person or organisation such as local MP's, the papers that supported our cause etc, asking them to consider prosecution and public condemnation of Packham and his pals.

Wild Justice is a non-profit limited company (with a use of "Limited" exemption so it's not obvious that it is), you won't get much by suing it.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

51 minutes ago, Katzenjammer said:

Yup we are essentially back to where we were.

What concerns me and should concern all of us is the cost of this publicity stunt pulled by Packham.  The cost to individuals, companies, organisations and the Public Purse!  It will have cost millions if costed out and for what at the end of the day?  You can be done for wasting police time so surely you can be done for a gross waste of public money?

And this is what should happen surely and the bill laid at Packham's door?  To this end perhaps we should all now spare some time to write to Gove as head of DEFRA and copy in to the Treasury, National Audit office and any other relevant person or organisation such as local MP's, the papers that supported our cause etc, asking them to consider prosecution and public condemnation of Packham and his pals.

In hindsight Defra and NE should have done what Scotland is doing, let the licences stand for this year and immediately review and revise them to make them watertight.

Have saved and printed off and read the new licences I think one licence could have been issued because much of the blurb is essentially the same.  There could have been separate sub sections covering each area of activity and the relevant species with indicators to look in the footnotes if there was anything particularly relevant to a species or sub section. 

You seem to have over looked the fact that the legal challenge was assessed and found to be valid, when Natural ENgland revoked the General Licences 04,05 and 06 it was to stop the whole shebang going to court. We then had a chance to give our side of the story by submitting eveidence and then the new General Licences were issued by DEFRA on Thursday night.

There will be no bill sent to Chris Packham or Wild Justice, they generated an awful lot of publicity and will no doubt make futher challenges that we should be ready for.

[Dibble]

15 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You seem to have over looked the fact that the legal challenge was assessed and found to be valid, when Natural ENgland revoked the General Licences 04,05 and 06 it was to stop the whole shebang going to court. We then had a chance to give our side of the story by submitting eveidence and then the new General Licences were issued by DEFRA on Thursday night.

There will be no bill sent to Chris Packham or Wild Justice, they generated an awful lot of publicity and will no doubt make futher challenges that we should be ready for.

True, indeed you could view it they have strengthened the shooting position.

I do find it exasperating that the "Campaigners" and lawyers have had a financial gain from this, if only from the increased exposure and thus value of their brand,  whilst taking minimal personal financial risk.

I find it exasperating "Campaigner" is a job now not merely an interest or hobby.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

23 minutes ago, Dibble said:

True, indeed you could view it they have strengthened the shooting position.

I do find it exasperating that the "Campaigners" and lawyers have had a financial gain from this, if only from the increased exposure and thus value of their brand,  whilst taking minimal personal financial risk.

I find it exasperating "Campaigner" is a job now not merely an interest or hobby.

I completely agree, but we have to make the most of the current situation, learn from it and portray our efforts in a better light.

Yesterday evening I had a chap ask what i was doing in a field, I politely explained I was protecting the crops. He then asked "did I eat the pigeons" to which I replied "yes of course," Not sure whether he was angling for some shot birds, but he was genuinely interested and will hopefully accept that this sort of thing is natural in the countryside.

[Ultrastu]

Exactly. Thats long been my stance .

The more we and other people get out and shoot . The more its seen as normal and an every day occurance the longer it will be accepted. 

Shy away from the public eye and it will be to our down fall .

Mate and i are running an intodution to airguns weekend ,soon for over 100 people. 

Safe and fun .and hopefully get some more long term recruits. 

 

[mossy835]

most would have know about the revolk of the licence,and its been quiet for a month and get out let them know we are about and all is back on.

[panoma1]

In my opinion the blame can be squarely laid at the feet of NE....it was they that were responsible for and ignored the genuine shortcomings WJ had identified in NE's implementation of the GL's.........Rather than accepting the critism they didn't address the matter, even when the legal case was looming........so as a result of their failures they responded with a knee jerk reaction, bought about by either their incompetence or them "burying their heads in the sand" they bottled it and revoked the GL's.......

Gove's department DEFRA took over NE's responsibilities and has identified the revocation by NE was unnecessary, all that was needed was some someone with some gonads to make a few small amendments to bring the GL into compliance with the law.......which has been done.....that is why there ain't much difference between the old GL's And the new ones!

NE are unfit for purpose, and should, in my opinion be disbanded immediately, and their responsibilities taken on permanently by DEFRA.

[Yellow Bear]

12 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

they responded with a knee jerk reaction, bought about by either their incompetence or them "burying their heads in the sand" they bottled it and revoked the GL's

Neither really I suspect it was a deliberate action by the new head of NE to aid his "protectionist mates" and to see if he could get away with it.

[Dibble]

Should we refer to them as Wild Justice Ltd. as they seem keen to drop the Ltd. bit

[Harnser]

10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

In my opinion the blame can be squarely laid at the feet of NE....it was they that were responsible for and ignored the genuine shortcomings WJ had identified in NE's implementation of the GL's.........Rather than accepting the critism they didn't address the matter, even when the legal case was looming........so as a result of their failures they responded with a knee jerk reaction, bought about by either their incompetence or them "burying their heads in the sand" they bottled it and revoked the GL's.......

Gove's department DEFRA took over NE's responsibilities and has identified the revocation by NE was unnecessary, all that was needed was some someone with some gonads to make a few small amendments to bring the GL into compliance with the law.......which has been done.....that is why there ain't much difference between the old GL's And the new ones!

NE are unfit for purpose, and should, in my opinion be disbanded immediately, and their responsibilities taken on permanently by DEFRA.

I agree .N E should be taken to task over this whole issue . The advice give ref the scare shows ,the cutting down of sitty trees ,the model pigeons with the wing bars showing ,the sitting down in the middle of the field dressed as a scare crow , where are these people coming . absolute proof they know nothing about the running of the country side . I would like to ask them how many trees I would have to cut down on my farms to stop pigeons roosting in them . They are a complete bunch of fools and should be answerable to government.

harnser

[toontastic]

50 minutes ago, Harnser said:

I agree .N E should be taken to task over this whole issue . The advice give ref the scare shows ,the cutting down of sitty trees ,the model pigeons with the wing bars showing ,the sitting down in the middle of the field dressed as a scare crow , where are these people coming . absolute proof they know nothing about the running of the country side . I would like to ask them how many trees I would have to cut down on my farms to stop pigeons roosting in them . They are a complete bunch of fools and should be answerable to government.

harnser

Perhaps they did a few lines of Gove's finest Columbian before coming up with that advice.

[manthing]

Nothing will land a CP's door as WJ is as far as I'm aware a Ltd company. 

He will try again. 

Pity the only thing he achieved was the loss of more eggs, fledglings, lambs and crops at the most sensative time of the season.