ClemFandango Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, ordnance said: Possibly, but you then have to be willing to face the consequences of your actions. He did didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, ClemFandango said: He did didn't he? Yes as he should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, ordnance said: Yes as he should have. True he should!.......And as a side issue, he must have also faced the legal consequences of being in possession of a shotgun without a certificate, which seems to have been of more concern to you! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, panoma1 said: True he should!.......And as a side issue, he must have also faced the legal consequences of being in possession of a shotgun without a certificate, which seems to have been of more concern to you! Lol! If you find people with illegal firearms funny that's up to you i don't, there are plenty of other examples like the one bellow. Quote Murdered MP Jo Cox was killed with a gun that had been stolen from ... are among the main sources of illegal firearms. Edited August 14, 2019 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 Anyway, back to the original incident. From the report it would seem that they drove into the field and torched both it and the vehicle they came in? Seems an odd thing to do. But logic would suggest that the fire was accidental. My guess is that they parked the vehicle and went off with the dogs to look for hares. While they were away from the vehicle the hot exhaust or a disgarded cigarette butt set light to the stubble. With their car gone up in flames they walked to the nearest pub to wait while someone could bring alternative transport to pick them and the dogs up. A burnt out car in a stubble field, a group of blokes with lurchers without a car in a nearby pub..where's Sherlock Holmes when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 10 hours ago, ordnance said: If you find people with illegal firearms funny that's up to you i don't, there are plenty of other examples like the one bellow. No I find your emphasis on what is a side issue to an incident which resulted in one dead, one greviously injured and one in prison to be laughable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 14 hours ago, Scully said: Hadn’t TM been almost under siege with thefts, harassment and whatever for a long long time, and hadn’t the police either done nothing or been unable to do anything, for whatever reason? [Snipped] It is believed that he was burgled in the past but not to the extent he claimed, and some of the items that were supposed to have been taken may never have been in his possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 28 minutes ago, henry d said: It is believed that he was burgled in the past but not to the extent he claimed, and some of the items that were supposed to have been taken may never have been in his possession. Where's the proof? More allegations, rumour and supposition directed at an oddball, to suit an agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 No, from police reports apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, henry d said: No, from police reports apparently A police report is just police opinion, speculation and supposition......not proof! If they had evidence they would have prosecuted him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, henry d said: No, from police reports apparently He said that he had been burgled a total of ten times, losing £6,000 worth of furniture. Police sources say they are not sure that all the incidents took place. From Wiki, so theres all the, err , proof you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 17 hours ago, henry d said: How can you possibly know that? TM was no angel either! Fred Barras, the dead youth, had already been convicted of a total of 29 offences by the time of his death at the age of 16, including seven convictions for theft and six for fraud.[12] He had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, Barras had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture.His grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away."[13] 15 hours ago, ordnance said: I am surprised some on a firearms forum support the illegal procession of firearms, they are usually the fist preach about the rule of law. They shout about the illegality of robbing tony martin but have no problem with the illegality of him having a shotgun after his certificate was revoked. If a man is safe enough to walk the streets then he is safe enough to own a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: If a man is safe enough to walk the streets then he is safe enough to own a gun. Not really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Quote If a man is safe enough to walk the streets then he is safe enough to own a gun. Edited August 15, 2019 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 18 hours ago, Retsdon said: Not really... If he can be trusted with car, knife, 5gal can of gasoline then he should be just fine with a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: If he can be trusted with car, knife, 5gal can of gasoline then he should be just fine with a firearm. Yeah, I’d go along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: If he can be trusted with car, knife, 5gal can of gasoline then he should be just fine with a firearm. 6 minutes ago, Scully said: Yeah, I’d go along with that. As recent times have proved, you don't need to be in possession of a firearm to main and kill. I think people seem to quickly forget that. 19 hours ago, ordnance said: Asking as genuinely as I can, what do you think TM should have done in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: If he can be trusted with car, knife, 5gal can of gasoline then he should be just fine with a firearm. Absolutely! Anything can be used as a deadly weapon, it is reported just today, a solicitor ( OK up North then! Lol!) was stabbed to death by a gang of youths, with a screwdriver! Guns don't kill people, people kill people! Edited August 16, 2019 by panoma1 Directional problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Absolutely! Anything can be used as a deadly weapon, it is reported just today, a solicitor (down south I believe) was stabbed to death by a gang of youths, with a screwdriver! Guns don't kill people, people kill people! https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9725228/peter-duncan-newcastle-solicitor-stabbing-knifed-greggs/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/15/seven-teenagers-arrested-father-stabbed-death-screwdriver-newcastle/ Edited August 16, 2019 by Penelope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 22 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: Fred Barras, the dead youth, had already been convicted of a total of 29 offences by the time of his death at the age of 16, including seven convictions for theft and six for fraud.[12] He had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being drunk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, Barras had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture.His grandmother, Mary Dolan, stated: "It's not fair that the farmer has got all the money and he is the one that took Fred away."[13] Quoting Wikipedia does not answer the question, how can you possibly know what someone may do in the future? On 15/08/2019 at 09:56, panoma1 said: A police report is just police opinion, speculation and supposition......not proof! If they had evidence they would have prosecuted him! They need a basis for their opinions otherwise they could face legal action, so it would have to have been more than just speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, henry d said: They need a basis for their opinions otherwise they could face legal action, so it would have to have been more than just speculation. Every allegation of illegality is speculation until proven..........you are advocating the police's corruption of the law where everyone is now "guilty until they prove themselves innocent" rather than "innocent until proven guilty" Police "could face legal action"?.......Don't make me laugh! Again you are advocating an accused person having to prove police allegations against him are untrue, rather than the police having to prove their allegations are true!......and let's face it, you could only persue such a claim, if you had a bottomless pit of money available to finance such action.........because the police have! Edited August 16, 2019 by panoma1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, henry d said: Quoting Wikipedia does not answer the question, how can you possibly know what someone may do in the future? Deductive reasoning, You use his known past history and compare to to other subjects with similar histories but with known outcomes. You then look at the patterns of known outcomes and use that information to form an educated theory of the most likely outcome for the original subject. 1 hour ago, Farmboy91 said: Asking as genuinely as I can, what do you think TM should have done in that situation? Set up the outcome to where he is the only one that could tell the story of what happened. 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Absolutely! Anything can be used as a deadly weapon, it is reported just today, a solicitor ( OK up North then! Lol!) was stabbed to death by a gang of youths, with a screwdriver! Guns don't kill people, people kill people! I would go as far to say a car is way more deadly then a double barrel shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: Deductive reasoning, You use his known past history and compare to to other subjects with similar histories but with known outcomes. You then look at the patterns of known outcomes and use that information to form an educated theory of the most likely outcome for the original subject. Set up the outcome to where he is the only one that could tell the story of what happened. I would go as far to say a car is way more deadly then a double barrel shotgun. Without doubt, far more people can lay their hands on a car/van than a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just now, Farmboy91 said: Without doubt, far more people can lay their hands on a car/van than a gun. Well that has been proven in the recent London Bridge terrorist murders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Well that has been proven in the recent London Bridge terrorist murders! Yeah thats partly what I was getting at, although as we all know it's far easier to target legal firearms owners when it comes to 'public saftey' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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