pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I wonder if she will be re-elected by her constituents? I wouldn,t bet on it, in fact, I,ll check out Ladbrokes, see if I can get decent odds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Ill leave you with this. "They're trying to make us associate members of the EU with no say, no rights, continued ongoing costs... this is a coalition of parliament against the people. I pray this deal does not go through because it will NOT be Brexit!" - Nigel Farage When elected representatives completely ignore a democratic vote, go back on their election and manifesto promises, the promises that got them elected, refuse to enact the will of their constituents, and refuse to run by elections to settle the issue, then people like Farage become popular, When voters dont believe the mainstream parties represent them anymore, they swing to groups like the Brexit party. This is not rocket science, The MPs sit thinking no one notices these actions, they have MADE the Brexit party themselves, by their arrogance and stupidity. You reap exactly what you sow, and you can dislike Farage as much as you like, because you just make him stronger with your scorn. As you say you reap what you sow, let's hope for all our sakes we don't reap what is being sown with the Brexit Party... It's not a coalition against the people or a direct attempt to undermine democracy, it's about finding a way through the mess that has been caused by embarking on mission impossible in the first place. The fact that the WA sucks so much reflects the complexity of the issues, something that Farage has not had to face (thank God!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Across the water, Trump has invigorated the economy, and cut unemployment. There are now more black/latino workers than ever before.... can,t be all bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, pinfireman said: I wouldn,t bet on it, in fact, I,ll check out Ladbrokes, see if I can get decent odds! An insight into the crystal clear coherent thought process of a Brexiteer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Good job I paused before replying based on your edit. I think the 304 pages here spell out some of the potential reforms. Regarding your edit, you are free to call it an overturn of democracy but there is a compelling case that the thing you've voted for was not achievable. If you want evidence of that just track the language Farage has used to define (and redefine) his version of Brexit from the pre-referendum speeches to what he is saying now. All this talk of remainer lies is all very well and good, both sides lied. When you step back and reflect should you hold more disdain towards your opponents that lied to you or the people who lied to you that were supposedly on your side. (rhetorical question hence the lack of ?) What is this "compelling case"? The fact that the Remoaners, and the backstabbing MPs don,t like it? Does it escape your notice that both Labour and the Tories included Brexit in their 2017 manifestos? Then sold us down the river, as they want to keep their snouts in the EU trough! A trough, I might add, that 95% of us will never feed from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Rewulf said: You dont bring a spoon to a gun fight... Ironically that's exactly what the Brexit movement does bring to the fight with Farage - some call it a spoon, youngsters round here call it a melt... 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Ill leave you with this. "They're trying to make us associate members of the EU with no say, no rights, continued ongoing costs... this is a coalition of parliament against the people. I pray this deal does not go through because it will NOT be Brexit!" - Nigel Farage When elected representatives completely ignore a democratic vote, go back on their election and manifesto promises, the promises that got them elected, refuse to enact the will of their constituents, and refuse to run by elections to settle the issue, then people like Farage become popular, When voters dont believe the mainstream parties represent them anymore, they swing to groups like the Brexit party. This is not rocket science, The MPs sit thinking no one notices these actions, they have MADE the Brexit party themselves, by their arrogance and stupidity. You reap exactly what you sow, and you can dislike Farage as much as you like, because you just make him stronger with your scorn. Brilliant, absolutely Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Just now, Raja Clavata said: As you say you reap what you sow, let's hope for all our sakes we don't reap what is being sown with the Brexit Party... Why ? We had to suck up the Blairite labour parties mess ! War, uncontrolled borrowing, uncontrolled immigration from in and outside the EU, with smirking tony, telling us how good we had it. Just because some snowflake tells you Farage is a far right racist, means we all go to hell in a handcart ? 4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It's not a coalition against the people or a direct attempt to undermine democracy, it's about finding a way through the mess that has been caused by embarking on mission impossible in the first place. The fact that the WA sucks so much reflects the complexity of the issues, something that Farage has not had to face (thank God!). What is it then, an attempt to deliver the majorities will on leaving the EU ? 😂 Cracking job so far ! People keep talking about complexity, theyve had 3 years to solve the problems, and theyve come back with 'We dont think its possible to get a clean break, so we might have to stay' Think about it, an organisation you cannot physically leave is what ? A protection racket ? A criminal cartel ? Some kind of mafioso organisation ? Prison ? 2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Ironically that's exactly what the Brexit movement does bring to the fight with Farage - some call it a spoon, youngsters round here call it a melt... 😛 He didnt seem to be doing to bad with it last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: As you say you reap what you sow, let's hope for all our sakes we don't reap what is being sown with the Brexit Party... It's not a coalition against the people or a direct attempt to undermine democracy, it's about finding a way through the mess that has been caused by embarking on mission impossible in the first place. The fact that the WA sucks so much reflects the complexity of the issues, something that Farage has not had to face (thank God!). It clearly IS a coalition against the people, no matter how you try to dress it up with fancy words! And it is a fight that the people must win, or as a democracy, we are dead! And the bureaucrats win. 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: An insight into the crystal clear coherent thought process of a Brexiteer? Snide remarks do not make you a better man! 6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Ironically that's exactly what the Brexit movement does bring to the fight with Farage - some call it a spoon, youngsters round here call it a melt... 😛 A spoon that will beat the living daylights out of the Remoaner side! 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Why ? We had to suck up the Blairite labour parties mess ! War, uncontrolled borrowing, uncontrolled immigration from in and outside the EU, with smirking tony, telling us how good we had it. Just because some snowflake tells you Farage is a far right racist, means we all go to hell in a handcart ? What is it then, an attempt to deliver the majorities will on leaving the EU ? 😂 Cracking job so far ! People keep talking about complexity, theyve had 3 years to solve the problems, and theyve come back with 'We dont think its possible to get a clean break, so we might have to stay' Think about it, an organisation you cannot physically leave is what ? A protection racket ? A criminal cartel ? Some kind of mafioso organisation ? Prison ? No one has dared to call Farage a racist in print.................that says it all! 7 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Why ? We had to suck up the Blairite labour parties mess ! War, uncontrolled borrowing, uncontrolled immigration from in and outside the EU, with smirking tony, telling us how good we had it. Just because some snowflake tells you Farage is a far right racist, means we all go to hell in a handcart ? What is it then, an attempt to deliver the majorities will on leaving the EU ? 😂 Cracking job so far ! People keep talking about complexity, theyve had 3 years to solve the problems, and theyve come back with 'We dont think its possible to get a clean break, so we might have to stay' Think about it, an organisation you cannot physically leave is what ? A protection racket ? A criminal cartel ? Some kind of mafioso organisation ? Prison ? Socialism? The Soviet type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, pinfireman said: What is this "compelling case"? The fact that the Remoaners, and the backstabbing MPs don,t like it? Does it escape your notice that both Labour and the Tories included Brexit in their 2017 manifestos? Then sold us down the river, as they want to keep their snouts in the EU trough! A trough, I might add, that 95% of us will never feed from! Farage has changed his version / story several times. Gasp, shock, horror - politicians have been telling the public what they think they want to hear from pretty much time immemorable, why should it be any different for Brexit? Because it matters so much to you? That's not a good enough reason. Snouts in the trough - another popular phrase but not very well substantiated - I would imagine the whole Brexit episode has reduced the life expectancy of a good number of politicians and civil servants. Only a fool could not see the strain it has caused to a number of the people at the sharp end of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 The ONS has released its latest GDP figures and the UK is up at a healthy 0.5% growth for Q1. Business investment was also up 0.5% q/q, while manufacturing growth surged to the highest in three decades at 2.2%. The Eurozone could only manage 0.4% GDP growth… Source: Guido Fawkes DESPITE BREXIT! Just now, Raja Clavata said: Farage has changed his version / story several times. Gasp, shock, horror - politicians have been telling the public what they think they want to hear from pretty much time immemorable, why should it be any different for Brexit? Because it matters so much to you? That's not a good enough reason. Snouts in the trough - another popular phrase but not very well substantiated - I would imagine the whole Brexit episode has reduced the life expectancy of a good number of politicians and civil servants. Only a fool could not see the strain it has caused to a number of the people at the sharp end of it all. Do what you claim Farage does not do..Answer the question! "Compelling case"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Why ? We had to suck up the Blairite labour parties mess ! War, uncontrolled borrowing, uncontrolled immigration from in and outside the EU, with smirking tony, telling us how good we had it. Just because some snowflake tells you Farage is a far right racist, means we all go to hell in a handcart ?I don't know where a lot of this comes from but... What is it then, an attempt to deliver the majorities will on leaving the EU ? 😂 Cracking job so far ! People keep talking about complexity, theyve had 3 years to solve the problems, and theyve come back with 'We dont think its possible to get a clean break, so we might have to stay' It's a farce, the whole thing is a farce, from the very start to the present day, I don't know exactly what the solution is but I firmly believe Farage is not the solution Think about it, an organisation you cannot physically leave is what ? A protection racket ? A criminal cartel ? Some kind of mafioso organisation ? Prison ? I'm not sticking up for the EU. We all just need to face up to the reality of what a mess we are now in and find a way forward. And the way forward is not WTO Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: Farage has changed his version / story several times. Gasp, shock, horror - politicians have been telling the public what they think they want to hear from pretty much time immemorable, why should it be any different for Brexit? Because it matters so much to you? That's not a good enough reason. Snouts in the trough - another popular phrase but not very well substantiated - I would imagine the whole Brexit episode has reduced the life expectancy of a good number of politicians and civil servants. Only a fool could not see the strain it has caused to a number of the people at the sharp end of it all. Politicians and civil servants? That is the best joke this year! Anti-democratic politicians, and civil servants pulling the strings in the background! All over paid, with huge gold-plated pensions, a gong at the end of their careers, and probably a holiday home in Europe! They do not know what strain is....they should try being at the other end of the pay scale, bringing up a family.......that is strain! Just now, Raja Clavata said: Yes, you are sticking up for the EU...staying in a Customs Union is staying in the EU, Freedom of movement for foreign workers means you are still staying in the EU, the only difference is that we will no longer have MEPS. But we would still be obeying EU laws, and paying in a huge membership fee! And these are things that your side want to do. Unless you have a magic solution whereby we do not have to include these, but remain members? I cannot see the Brussels mafia agreeing to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Farage may not be the complete solution, but he is the catalyst that will help those currently in power to focus on what the MAJORITY of the people voted for! They fear him! Strange how, just a couple of days after he acknowledged that he would lead The Brexit Party, May decided to talk to Corbyn, and Corbyn agreed! Very strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Do what you claim Farage does not do..Answer the question! "Compelling case"..... Sorry but I owe you nothing pal, not sure who you think you are making demands on me to reply. I didn't think it was necessary to define the compelling case, it's what we've been discussing here. What you will have as a concerted effort by parliament to subvert democracy and what I assert is trying to deliver the impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: We all just need to face up to the reality of what a mess we are now in and find a way forward. And the way forward is not WTO Brexit. I dont think you understand. When you try to peacefully leave a partnership, be it business or otherwise, and the other party puts such pressure and demands on you to actively prevent that from happening, the peaceful side of the 'divorce' has slipped through your fingers. The 'threat' of WTO Brexit is the bargaining chip that MIGHT have got us a deal, not the pathetic May/EU written deal, something beneficial, to both parties. That time has now passed, as the Dons at Brussels smell victory, that victory is FORCING us to stay, so they can milk us for another 40 years. Hard Brexit/WTO is now the only option we have left, to leave with some dignity and freedom. Otherwise Farage and the Brexit parties will be the least of your worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Quote it's about finding a way through the mess that has been caused by embarking on mission impossible in the first place. If it is mission impossible, as you say, why did both main parties pledge to honour the result at the last election? It might seem impossible to those with limited intelligence, but easy enough to the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Here you go , a red bus with some remainer truths on it , to balance things out..Oh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I dont think you understand. When you try to peacefully leave a partnership, be it business or otherwise, and the other party puts such pressure and demands on you to actively prevent that from happening, the peaceful side of the 'divorce' has slipped through your fingers. The 'threat' of WTO Brexit is the bargaining chip that MIGHT have got us a deal, not the pathetic May/EU written deal, something beneficial, to both parties. That time has now passed, as the Dons at Brussels smell victory, that victory is FORCING us to stay, so they can milk us for another 40 years. Hard Brexit/WTO is now the only option we have left, to leave with some dignity and freedom. Otherwise Farage and the Brexit parties will be the least of your worries. I understand perfectly, not my place to suggest that perhaps you don't. WTO Brexit may be the only chance we have to leave, I'll give you that, too late to cite dignity - we are a laughing stock. Least of my worries, lol, I'm not personally worried. 2 minutes ago, Gordon R said: If it is mission impossible, as you say, why did both main parties pledge to honour the result at the last election? It might seem impossible to those with limited intelligence, but easy enough to the rest of us. Another great contribution, thanks for that. Now, off you go, back to your day care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 You rarely, if ever, answer a point, but resort to being silly. It says everything about you and your "great contributions". Answer the point. If it genuinely was mission impossible, why are you the only person who sees it that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 No issues with the personal insults you have directed at me here and on other threads but please consider having the decency to accept that I have nothing to say to you and certainly don't try to tell me what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: An insight into the crystal clear coherent thought process of a Brexiteer? 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Another great contribution, thanks for that. Now, off you go, back to your day care... Do you think that is the way to have your contribution taken seriously? Edited May 10, 2019 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: As you say you reap what you sow, let's hope for all our sakes we don't reap what is being sown with the Brexit Party... It's not a coalition against the people or a direct attempt to undermine democracy, it's about finding a way through the mess that has been caused by embarking on mission impossible in the first place. The fact that the WA sucks so much reflects the complexity of the issues, something that Farage has not had to face (thank God!). Sadly and seriously, you are of the opinion that reform of the EU is possible from within? Pray tell how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Do you think that is the way to have your contribution taken seriously? Normally ignore online insults and bullies Vince but on occasion we all respond back in kind. Unless you're suggesting it's OK to insult me because my views differ to the majority of those expressed on this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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