Brexit - merged threads

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 hours ago, Mice! said:

Just popped QT on, not shouting over each other for a change, Farage seems to be doing well, getting a good response from the audience can't think why 🙄🙄 🤔

Funding just raised its head 😯 

Well I watched QT last night and Fiona Bruce had to stop and tell them to behave!

[Raja Clavata]

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

Sorry, but I am getting a "June Whitfield - nose growing" image in my mind!

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well I watched QT last night and Fiona Bruce had to stop and tell them to behave!

I only watched 5 or 10 mins, then 😴😴 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

I only watched 5 or 10 mins, then 😴😴 

It would seem so!

[twenty]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

Did you warm to Soubry, Reynolds and Rudd ?

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

How so? What is he exposed as?

 

1 hour ago, twenty said:

Did you warm to Soubry, Reynolds and Rudd ?

Me! No! Soubry pushing her own position and stating everyone else now agrees with it! Rudd looking after her future political ambitions/prospects, by stating support for May, her Brexit "deal" and the involvement of the opposition as the way forward! Reynolds....who? Lol!

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sorry, but I am getting a "June Whitfield - nose growing" image in my mind!

No idea what you mean by that. I was left with Homer Simpson images in mine...

 

1 hour ago, twenty said:

Did you warm to Soubry, Reynolds and Rudd ?

Absolutely not.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

hello, and what might that be ???? i only wish he was our Prime Minister so we could get back to having true British values and stop all these foreign nationals telling us how to run our country,  the 24 EU countries would not stand for any British citizen telling them how to run theirs,   

Edited May 10, 2019 by oldypigeonpopper

[Newbie to this]

I did notice the complete hypocrisy of Soubry, talking about how politics has become childlike with shouting or talking over others with different opinions, then whenever anyone spoke with a different opinion to her, all you could hear in the background was her talking over them, she even completely took over when the Labour bloke was asked a question, before he could even get his answer out.

Complete hypocrite and a complete anti-democratic.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was like a circus at times. I had been trying to warm to Farage but the programme exposed him for what he is.

What is he then ?

I think Farage came out of that shouting match very well, reasoned argument, with straight answers, against Soubrys and Rudds floundering excuses, the audience loved him, and no matter what you think of him, hes going to give the established politicians a royal kicking when the opportunity arises.
 Fiona Bruce was fair and gave a level field to all, even the labour squeaker, who really had nothing to say.

I may be a leaver and biased, but when I watch something like this, its like the remain camp have nothing sensible to say, tired old lines like 'you dont realise the bad things Brexit will do to ordinary people' or ' Its racist !' Even 'THE BUS ' got trotted out again, pathetic.
Farage said it last night , the only way to do this now is to leave on WTO terms, THEN negotiate some kind of deal.
To keep banging on about Mays deal, or 2nd referendums, amid the threat of just cancelling A50 without anything but a parliamentary vote, just goes to show the contempt the political class have for the plebs, and is a sure fire way to collapse the house in upon itself.

Which at this stage, wouldnt be a bad thing.

[oldypigeonpopper]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What is he then ?

I think Farage came out of that shouting match very well, reasoned argument, with straight answers, against Soubrys and Rudds floundering excuses, the audience loved him, and no matter what you think of him, hes going to give the established politicians a royal kicking when the opportunity arises.
 Fiona Bruce was fair and gave a level field to all, even the labour squeaker, who really had nothing to say.

I may be a leaver and biased, but when I watch something like this, its like the remain camp have nothing sensible to say, tired old lines like 'you dont realise the bad things Brexit will do to ordinary people' or ' Its racist !' Even 'THE BUS ' got trotted out again, pathetic.
Farage said it last night , the only way to do this now is to leave on WTO terms, THEN negotiate some kind of deal.
To keep banging on about Mays deal, or 2nd referendums, amid the threat of just cancelling A50 without anything but a parliamentary vote, just goes to show the contempt the political class have for the plebs, and is a sure fire way to collapse the house in upon itself.

Which at this stage, wouldnt be a bad thing.

hello, i am to Rewulf, and agree with Mr Farage, the sooner we leave the EU the better,  all 24 other EU states need our money as we in the UK buy more goods and services from them than they do US, we do not want a trade war which Trump seems to have with China, we want to sell to any country without the RED tape that Brussels has put us through these last 40? plus years 

[Raja Clavata]

Farage exposed himself to be no different and certainly not any better than the majority of the political class that he himself if actually part of. In fact it could be argued that he's worse as his sole "thing" is Brexit and he can't even seem to make his mind up about the details around that so he reverts to this simple "leave means leave" stance, blah blah blah etc.

No substance, no real policies, he is exploiting the problem with our political system but at the same time contributing to it himself.

He accused remain of not having a coherent position but it was clear he and the other leave panelist didn't agree on leave.

He spoke over other panel members in much the same way as Soubry did.

He avoided answering questions put to him directly, just like all politicians, and got tied up like a rabbit in headlights on the simple question about WTO.

The Brexit Party are onto a winner for the EU elections as they, excluding UKIP, are the only entity standing with a truly unified leave position, with the others there are many versions of leave (pretend) or remain to choose from. I don't know if what Soubry said about the independent candidate for Peterborough is true but that is exactly what should be happening to level the playing field for the EU elections (just like Brexit, conventional party politics should be put aside).

The EU have us by the short and curlies, Farage needs to be big enough to stand up and say something like "look guys you know what, this Brexit gig was well intention'd but it has been proven to be somewhat of a false hope - moving forward we are going to call our party the party of EU reform and work with other representatives from all EU states elected into the EU parliament to bring about the necessary reforms to the system that make it acceptable for us to continue to participate". I strongly believe that would deliver a huge majority of support from the UK public and more or less neutralise the whole party political nature of the Brexit shambles.

I don't believe he is capable nor willing to do that because I don't see any substance or real leadership behind the man. A hypocrite and cretin as far as I'm concerned and I hope he slips up before he unleashes the next round of chaos on our nation.

[Newbie to this]

So what reforms in your opinon would make it acceptable to overturn democracy and remain within the club?

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Newbie to this

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It would seem so!

Which is why i said it?

it was great listening to Soubry try and explain why they haven't put forward a candidate for the Peterborough bye election, we had found a really great fella, a proper independent, who labour bullied (bribed??) into withdrawing.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Farage exposed himself to be no different and certainly not any better than the majority of the political class that he himself if actually part of.

You dont bring a spoon to a gun fight...

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

In fact it could be argued that he's worse as his sole "thing" is Brexit and he can't even seem to make his mind up about the details around that so he reverts to this simple "leave means leave" stance, blah blah blah etc.

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

No substance, no real policies, he is exploiting the problem with our political system but at the same time contributing to it himself.

They were talking about Brexit and the EU elections, so his answers were about that, when the conversation went to policies, he said 'When we field our 650 candidates for a GE then we will talk about policies'
So I dont see where your problem is.

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

He spoke over other panel members in much the same way as Soubry did.

So...? That makes him just like Soubry in your book ?

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

He avoided answering questions put to him directly, just like all politicians, and got tied up like a rabbit in headlights on the simple question about WTO.

He avoided answering the 'What country trading on WTO terms doesnt have a separate trade deal ?' because it was a stupid question, WTO IS a trade deal, set up between countries by the WTO, he could have said none, but its obviously that anyway.
If thats what makes you dislike him, then really you should dislike all politicians ?

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

The EU have us by the short and curlies

But you think we could reform them ?
Think about what you said, there is already a large number of MEPs dedicated to EU reform, it says something when the only elected part of the EU has no power WHATSOEVER to achieve any reforms to the running of the bloc.

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I don't believe he is capable nor willing to do that because I don't see any substance or real leadership behind the man.

Its funny how people keep voting him into the EU parliament isnt it ?
Even stranger how, after all these years, hes commanding a brand new party thats threatening to dominate the EU elections AND posing a threat to mainstream parties in this country.

So not doing too bad for a 'cretin' and hypocrite, or maybe you think that says something for the people who support him ?

[twenty]

Unfortunately, whenever Soubry is involved in a TV discussion she takes over, In most cases the other contributors have to join in and talk over her, or they wouldn't get a word in edgeways.

In my opinion she has no idea how to hold a normal conversation, her constant chuntering in the background, pointing at people as she spouts off, and  eye rolling do her no favours.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, twenty said:

Unfortunately, whenever Soubry is involved in a TV discussion she takes over, In most cases the other contributors have to join in and talk over her, or they wouldn't get a word in edgeways.

In my opinion she has no idea how to hold a normal conversation, her constant chuntering in the background, pointing at people as she spouts off, and  eye rolling do her no favours.

+1

Ive seen her do an interview on the street, hopping about and gesturing in peoples faces, Ive seen smackheads do similar things.
Its not normal, shes either on some kind of medication, or somewhat deranged.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I wonder if she will be re-elected by her constituents?

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You dont bring a spoon to a gun fight...

Yes, you've said this before.

They were talking about Brexit and the EU elections, so his answers were about that, when the conversation went to policies, he said 'When we field our 650 candidates for a GE then we will talk about policies'
So I dont see where your problem is.

He also said we should be investing in doctors, nurses and engineers, that he's always been in favour of that. Presumably this investment would be funded by the significant increase in GBP we'd see from a WTO Brexit. Like I said no substance, no policies, just waffle...

So...? That makes him just like Soubry in your book ?

I didn't say that.

He avoided answering the 'What country trading on WTO terms doesnt have a separate trade deal ?' because it was a stupid question, WTO IS a trade deal, set up between countries by the WTO, he could have said none, but its obviously that anyway.

He should have said none, and he kind of did, eventually...
If thats what makes you dislike him, then really you should dislike all politicians ?

There are a number of reasons I dislike him but I just find it disturbing that a coherent answer to simple question on his specialist chosen subject, in fact his only subject, was beyond him. Of course it's easy to dismiss the question but this was a member of the public against a wannabe statesman.

But you think we could reform them ?

Think about what you said, there is already a large number of MEPs dedicated to EU reform, it says something when the only elected part of the EU has no power WHATSOEVER to achieve any reforms to the running of the bloc.

I don't see many other viable options at the moment. I'd rather try that than accept a Labour / Con Brexit deal.

Its funny how people keep voting him into the EU parliament isnt it ?

You call it funny, I call it a national embarrassment.
Even stranger how, after all these years, hes commanding a brand new party thats threatening to dominate the EU elections AND posing a threat to mainstream parties in this country.

Let's see how far he runs with it this time. I couldn't care a less about the mainstream parties but do fear what could happen to our country if his lot did well in a general election. He is not fit for purpose in a parliamentary sense so he'd be relying on defectors from other parties to prop up his party. Emperors new clothes and all that.

So not doing too bad for a 'cretin' and hypocrite, or maybe you think that says something for the people who support him ?

Sign of the times, just look across the water to the US (not entertaining your last point - but nice try, again).

 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

+1

Ive seen her do an interview on the street, hopping about and gesturing in peoples faces, Ive seen smackheads do similar things.
Its not normal, shes either on some kind of medication, or somewhat deranged.

So you selectively filtered out the fact that Farage was jumpy and jerky whilst speaking last night and not for the first time?

[Raja Clavata]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

So what reforms in your opinon would make it acceptable to overturn democracy and remain within the club?

 

Good job I paused before replying based on your edit. I think the 304 pages here spell out some of the potential reforms.

Regarding your edit, you are free to call it an overturn of democracy but there is a compelling case that the thing you've voted for was not achievable. If you want evidence of that just track the language Farage has used to define (and redefine) his version of Brexit from the pre-referendum speeches to what he is saying now.

All this talk of remainer lies is all very well and good, both sides lied. When you step back and reflect should you hold more disdain towards your opponents that lied to you or the people who lied to you that were supposedly on your side. (rhetorical question hence the lack of ?)

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

What is he then ?

I think Farage came out of that shouting match very well, reasoned argument, with straight answers, against Soubrys and Rudds floundering excuses, the audience loved him, and no matter what you think of him, hes going to give the established politicians a royal kicking when the opportunity arises.
 Fiona Bruce was fair and gave a level field to all, even the labour squeaker, who really had nothing to say.

I may be a leaver and biased, but when I watch something like this, its like the remain camp have nothing sensible to say, tired old lines like 'you dont realise the bad things Brexit will do to ordinary people' or ' Its racist !' Even 'THE BUS ' got trotted out again, pathetic.
Farage said it last night , the only way to do this now is to leave on WTO terms, THEN negotiate some kind of deal.
To keep banging on about Mays deal, or 2nd referendums, amid the threat of just cancelling A50 without anything but a parliamentary vote, just goes to show the contempt the political class have for the plebs, and is a sure fire way to collapse the house in upon itself.

Which at this stage, wouldnt be a bad thing.

Excellent post!

[Rewulf]

46 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You dont bring a spoon to a gun fight...

Yes, you've said this before. I said knife last time ,dont misquote me 😆

They were talking about Brexit and the EU elections, so his answers were about that, when the conversation went to policies, he said 'When we field our 650 candidates for a GE then we will talk about policies'
So I dont see where your problem is.

He also said we should be investing in doctors, nurses and engineers, that he's always been in favour of that. Presumably this investment would be funded by the significant increase in GBP we'd see from a WTO Brexit. Like I said no substance, no policies, just waffle...So you dont think its a good idea to invest in training people who already live here ? Better to just keep importing labour from abroad ? Good sound logic there ..Not.
Who said we are going to have an increase in GDP ?  (I presume thats what you meant) No one has said that, in the short term , things could well be tough, again dont misquote.

So...? That makes him just like Soubry in your book ?

I didn't say that. 'Just like all politicians' you said . Maybe he should wait for Soubry to let him speak, so like never 😂

He avoided answering the 'What country trading on WTO terms doesnt have a separate trade deal ?' because it was a stupid question, WTO IS a trade deal, set up between countries by the WTO, he could have said none, but its obviously that anyway.

He should have said none, and he kind of did, eventually...
If thats what makes you dislike him, then really you should dislike all politicians ?

There are a number of reasons I dislike him but I just find it disturbing that a coherent answer to simple question on his specialist chosen subject, in fact his only subject, was beyond him. Of course it's easy to dismiss the question but this was a member of the public against a wannabe statesman. Dont really see the problem TBH.

But you think we could reform them ?

Think about what you said, there is already a large number of MEPs dedicated to EU reform, it says something when the only elected part of the EU has no power WHATSOEVER to achieve any reforms to the running of the bloc.

I don't see many other viable options at the moment. I'd rather try that than accept a Labour / Con Brexit deal. No other viable options  So Mays BRINO deal that gets worse by the day, and will probably not get through anyway, its that unpopular with Brexiters and remainers alike, or try to reform the unreformable fledgling 4th reich..try again.

Its funny how people keep voting him into the EU parliament isnt it ?

You call it funny, I call it a national embarrassment. I CALL IT DEMOCRACY !
Even stranger how, after all these years, hes commanding a brand new party thats threatening to dominate the EU elections AND posing a threat to mainstream parties in this country.

Let's see how far he runs with it this time. I couldn't care a less about the mainstream parties but do fear what could happen to our country if his lot did well in a general election. He is not fit for purpose in a parliamentary sense so he'd be relying on defectors from other parties to prop up his party. Emperors new clothes and all that. Yes you said that before 
So vote for ?

So not doing too bad for a 'cretin' and hypocrite, or maybe you think that says something for the people who support him ?

Sign of the times, just look across the water to the US (not entertaining your last point - but nice try, again). Im not interested in the US , they voted for what they thought was right, and no one has yet PROVEN them wrong, but nice attempt at distraction. 

Ill leave you with this.

"They're trying to make us associate members of the EU with no say, no rights, continued ongoing costs... this is a coalition of parliament against the people. I pray this deal does not go through because it will NOT be Brexit!" - Nigel Farage

When elected representatives completely ignore a democratic vote, go back on their election and manifesto promises, the promises that got them elected, refuse to enact the will of their constituents, and refuse to run by elections to settle the issue, then people like Farage become popular,
When voters dont believe the mainstream parties represent them anymore, they swing to groups like the Brexit party.
This is not rocket science, The MPs sit thinking no one notices these actions, they have MADE the Brexit party themselves, by their arrogance and stupidity.

You reap exactly what you sow, and you can dislike Farage as much as you like, because you just make him stronger with your scorn.

[pinfireman]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Farage exposed himself to be no different and certainly not any better than the majority of the political class that he himself if actually part of. In fact it could be argued that he's worse as his sole "thing" is Brexit and he can't even seem to make his mind up about the details around that so he reverts to this simple "leave means leave" stance, blah blah blah etc.

No substance, no real policies, he is exploiting the problem with our political system but at the same time contributing to it himself.

He accused remain of not having a coherent position but it was clear he and the other leave panelist didn't agree on leave.

He spoke over other panel members in much the same way as Soubry did.

He avoided answering questions put to him directly, just like all politicians, and got tied up like a rabbit in headlights on the simple question about WTO.

The Brexit Party are onto a winner for the EU elections as they, excluding UKIP, are the only entity standing with a truly unified leave position, with the others there are many versions of leave (pretend) or remain to choose from. I don't know if what Soubry said about the independent candidate for Peterborough is true but that is exactly what should be happening to level the playing field for the EU elections (just like Brexit, conventional party politics should be put aside).

The EU have us by the short and curlies, Farage needs to be big enough to stand up and say something like "look guys you know what, this Brexit gig was well intention'd but it has been proven to be somewhat of a false hope - moving forward we are going to call our party the party of EU reform and work with other representatives from all EU states elected into the EU parliament to bring about the necessary reforms to the system that make it acceptable for us to continue to participate". I strongly believe that would deliver a huge majority of support from the UK public and more or less neutralise the whole party political nature of the Brexit shambles.

I don't believe he is capable nor willing to do that because I don't see any substance or real leadership behind the man. A hypocrite and cretin as far as I'm concerned and I hope he slips up before he unleashes the next round of chaos on our nation.

You CANNOT reform the EU, when the majority of the MEPS come from countries RECEIVING cash to follow the party line! That is a rubbish stance!  We were 1 in 27, with klittle influence, and a HUGE annual membership fee!

As for being unable to answer the WTO question, a. how could he answer the question put to him about WTO deals, as it was for the Tory government to do these deals, not a person outside government!  As he tried to make that point, the  apopletic bully boy in the audience kept screaming at him, giving him no chance to answer, as did Soubry!

As for doing WTO deals, we are UNABLE to do any deals UNTIL we are OUT of the EU !, 

As for other policies, yes they are, at this moment, a one policy party, but they are only a few weeks old, and  their starting point is the EU elections!  As he rightly pointed out, the Brexit Party will develop policies in the months (and perhaps years) prior to the next General Election!

Why should he stand up and say that we should stay in the EU? After all, you, and a couple of others seem to ignore the fact that 17.4 MILLION people voted OUT!  With a majority of 1,2 million...surely,  as a democrat, which you claim to be, we should enforce the democratic mandate?

 

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Farage exposed himself to be no different and certainly not any better than the majority of the political class that he himself if actually part of. In fact it could be argued that he's worse as his sole "thing" is Brexit and he can't even seem to make his mind up about the details around that so he reverts to this simple "leave means leave" stance, blah blah blah etc.

No substance, no real policies, he is exploiting the problem with our political system but at the same time contributing to it himself.

He accused remain of not having a coherent position but it was clear he and the other leave panelist didn't agree on leave.

He spoke over other panel members in much the same way as Soubry did.

He avoided answering questions put to him directly, just like all politicians, and got tied up like a rabbit in headlights on the simple question about WTO.

The Brexit Party are onto a winner for the EU elections as they, excluding UKIP, are the only entity standing with a truly unified leave position, with the others there are many versions of leave (pretend) or remain to choose from. I don't know if what Soubry said about the independent candidate for Peterborough is true but that is exactly what should be happening to level the playing field for the EU elections (just like Brexit, conventional party politics should be put aside).

The EU have us by the short and curlies, Farage needs to be big enough to stand up and say something like "look guys you know what, this Brexit gig was well intention'd but it has been proven to be somewhat of a false hope - moving forward we are going to call our party the party of EU reform and work with other representatives from all EU states elected into the EU parliament to bring about the necessary reforms to the system that make it acceptable for us to continue to participate". I strongly believe that would deliver a huge majority of support from the UK public and more or less neutralise the whole party political nature of the Brexit shambles.

I don't believe he is capable nor willing to do that because I don't see any substance or real leadership behind the man. A hypocrite and cretin as far as I'm concerned and I hope he slips up before he unleashes the next round of chaos on our nation.

He wont, you can bet on it!  The chaos was unleashed by 500+ MPs, who, having voted for a Referendum, and swearing to abide by the result, decided to renege on their promise....I,d rather trust Farage, than those who, because they did not get the result that would keep their snouts in the EU trough, decided to betray their countrymen!

4 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

So what reforms in your opinon would make it acceptable to overturn democracy and remain within the club?

 

Nice one!