BREXIT

[KB1]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Thats what you think !

There are seats where the cons cant win traditionally but the BP can...
Those seats will not be contested by the tories, in return for the BP not contesting tory strongholds.

You do not tell your opponents your strategy, to all intents and purposes the BP and tories are not allied..or are they ?

Wouldn't that be wonderful 🤞

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, JRDS said:

I am hoping to run the clock down and rely on the EU refusing an extension.

I think your hope is likely to be realized. Everything coming out of the EU suggests that they're bored with this nonsense now and just want to draw a line under it and move on.

But when the consequences come home to roost, I trust you'll have the fortitude to own them. No looking around for scapegoats.

[JRDS]

25 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I think your hope is likely to be realized. Everything coming out of the EU suggests that they're bored with this nonsense now and just want to draw a line under it and move on.

But when the consequences come home to roost, I trust you'll have the fortitude to own them. No looking around for scapegoats.

I am a year off 55 and a draw down Pension, Brexit may trash my Pension pot but my view of the long term benefit for future generations and my kids is I want out.  I may be totally misguided but to see the UK as a rule taker in an increasingly Federal Europe run by Germany is not for me.  We fought 2 world wars for self rule, I don't live in the past but millions of people died as a result of giving us that.  We joined a trading arrangement many moons ago, fine with that but not the rest.  If our current relationship with the EU was presented to us as if we were joining it would be laughed out of Parliament.  Pay a fortune to run a huge trading deficit and support any volume of their citizens who want to come here with health care, housing, schooling and benefits is madness.  What do we get out of it other than the UK Taxpayer paying our domestic businesses import levies.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[martyn2233]

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I think your hope is likely to be realized. Everything coming out of the EU suggests that they're bored with this nonsense now and just want to draw a line under it and move on.

But when the consequences come home to roost, I trust you'll have the fortitude to own them. No looking around for scapegoats.

I’m glad the eu are fed up with us that way we leave with no deal stuff em.

what happens when/ if we have another vote and we vote leave again?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

17 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I think your hope is likely to be realized. Everything coming out of the EU suggests that they're bored with this nonsense now and just want to draw a line under it and move on.

But when the consequences come home to roost, I trust you'll have the fortitude to own them. No looking around for scapegoats.

As long as you accept that this could all have been done and dusted so much more quickly if it had been addressed properly!

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

I’m glad the eu are fed up with us that way we leave with no deal stuff em.

what happens when/ if we have another vote and we vote leave again?

If we have a vote where the majority is to leave with no deal then we should leave with no deal.

No argument.

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

If we have a vote where the majority is to leave with no deal then we should leave with no deal.

No argument.

But you can bet the ballot paper will be rigged so that cannot happen.

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

But you can bet the ballot paper will be rigged so that cannot happen.

I forget the mechanism by which a second referendum can be called but if it’s down to the Cons then they should go for it.

Oh but wait, they can’t even get a motion through the house to suspend parliament for three days in order to hold their annual party conference 🤣

[Scully]

29 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I think your hope is likely to be realized. Everything coming out of the EU suggests that they're bored with this nonsense now and just want to draw a line under it and move on.

But when the consequences come home to roost, I trust you'll have the fortitude to own them. No looking around for scapegoats.

It’ll never happen. I wish it would, but it won’t; the EU want our money and that’s that. 

I’m more than ready for the consequences, whatever they may be. It can’t come soon enough as far as I’m concerned. 

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

If we have a vote where the majority is to leave with no deal then we should leave with no deal.

No argument.

There were no provisos on either option on the ballot paper ( clearly because no one believed we would vote to leave, and therefore no need ) but I often wonder if the vote had gone the other way by the same margin, if we would be prevaricating about remaining ‘with a deal’. 

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

I often wonder if the vote had gone the other way by the same margin, if we would be prevaricating about remaining ‘with a deal’. 

Now you are just being silly, the "establishment" would be happy and ignore any "complaint" like it did before.

[JRDS]

If Remain had won the discussion would have ended on the Friday after, I was resigned myself going to bed but jubilant at 5 am when I turned the TV on it was one of those moments you will never forget.  Made especially enjoyable watching Alistair Cambell having a melt down like a spoilt brat.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

There were no provisos on either option on the ballot paper ( clearly because no one believed we would vote to leave, and therefore no need ) but I often wonder if the vote had gone the other way by the same margin, if we would be prevaricating about remaining ‘with a deal’. 

Interesting point you raise. Of course Farage would still be advocating leave.

Regarding remaining with a deal, perhaps that should have been the first level of negotiation that the government adopted. I mean using the referendum result as a lever to force the concessions that Cameron was originally seeking, perhaps that was precisely the tactic which somehow led to the WA...

Personally I think we already had a pretty good deal, not in the Euro or Schengen etc was quite a concession imho.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting point you raise. Of course Farage would still be advocating leave.

Regarding remaining with a deal, perhaps that should have been the first level of negotiation that the government adopted. I mean using the referendum result as a lever to force the concessions that Cameron was originally seeking, perhaps that was precisely the tactic which somehow led to the WA...

Personally I think we already had a pretty good deal, not in the Euro or Schengen etc was quite a concession imho.

Too late now!

[JRDS]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting point you raise. Of course Farage would still be advocating leave.

Regarding remaining with a deal, perhaps that should have been the first level of negotiation that the government adopted. I mean using the referendum result as a lever to force the concessions that Cameron was originally seeking, perhaps that was precisely the tactic which somehow led to the WA...

Personally I think we already had a pretty good deal, not in the Euro or Schengen etc was quite a concession imho.

Nigel might have been but I doubt it would have lasted.  The rest of us were likely resigned to the result, me at least.  Shame Remoaners don't have the same grace or class, yourself included.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[Retsdon]

54 minutes ago, JRDS said:

I am a year off 55 and a draw down Pension, Brexit may trash my Pension pot but my view of the long term benefit for future generations and my kids is I want out.  I may be totally misguided but to see the UK as a rule taker in an increasingly Federal Europe run by Germany is not for me.  We fought 2 world wars for self rule, I don't live in the past but millions of people died as a result of giving us that.  We joined a trading arrangement many moons ago, fine with that but not the rest.

I respect your view. I just think that the world has changed very much in the intervening years and that these days you have to choose your rule maker. So you're left with China - they run Asia and parts of Africa), The USA - that runs the American continents north and south, the Middle East and parts of Asia, and the EU, - I don't like to use the word 'runs' because the EU isn't a single nation projecting its power like the others, so much as the voice of group of nations that have agreed to team up - which speaks for Europe and what used to be called 'The Old World'. Of course Russia still projects its influence but pretty much in its own back yard and nothing like the three above.

I can't help thinking that many Leavers have an idealistic view of how the world actually is. Out there, it's  divided into Trade Blocs;  it's divided into geographical spheres of influence; and it's not friendly. Is the EU something of a monolithic, jobsworth populated, regulatory, box-ticking compromise? Sure it is. But it's not China (that looks after Chinese people), and it's not America  (that looks after American stockholders). The EU is a compromise that (and it's not always great at it)  does its best to square national autonomy with common interest and does its best to look after the the interests of Europeans.

Whatever, but at the end of the day in a world of massive blocs, for better or worse, the EU and the EEA are 'our' bloc. The UK might have problems and issues with the EU, but it's like in the days when we were teenagers. We might have had an issue with Bob over some girl, or even with the whole gang about the trip to Scotland,  but when we went into town and there was a bit of a mix up, whose side were we on?

There's no ideal. There's just the best of what there is.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Retsdon

[JRDS]

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I respect your view. I just think that the world has changed very much in the intervening years and that these days you have to choose your rule maker. So you're left with China - they run Asia and parts of Africa), The USA - that runs the American continents north and south, the Middle East and parts of Asia, and the EU, - I don't like to use the word 'runs' because the EU isn't a single nation projecting its power like the others, so much as the voice of group of nations that have agreed to team up - which speaks for Europe and what used to be called 'The Old World'. Of course Russia still projects its influence but pretty much in its own back yard and nothing like the three above.

I can't help thinking that many Leavers have an idealistic view of how the world actually is. Out there, it's  divided into Trade Blocs;  it's divided into geographical spheres of influence; and it's not friendly. Is the EU something of a monolithic, jobsworth populated, regulatory, box-ticking compromise? Sure it is. But it's not China (that looks after Chinese people), and it's not America  (that looks after American stockholders). The EU is a compromise that (and it's not always great at it)  does its best to square national autonomy with common interest.

Whatever, but at the end of the day in a world of massive blocs, for better or worse, the EU and the EEA are 'our' bloc. The UK might have problems and issues with the EU, but it's like in the days when we were teenagers. We might have had an issue with Bob over some girl, or even with the whole gang about the trip to Scotland,  but when we went into town and there was a bit of a mix up, whose side were we on?

There's no ideal. There's just the best of what there is.

 

You maybe right, time will tell one way or the other.  We need to repect the result and move on for eveyones sake.

[JRDS]

Pinched this of the BBS.  Have a listen Remoaners and appreciate the total hypocracy of what has happened since..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4szobfOJuCk

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, JRDS said:

You maybe right, time will tell one way or the other.  We need to repect the result and move on for eveyones sake.

Your right we all want to move on but no deal is moving backwards rather than forwards, we will have to get a trading deal with our largest closest trading partner at some point.  Why on earth peop's think it will be easier to get a deal from the outside god only knows. 

[Raja Clavata]

19 minutes ago, JRDS said:

Nigel might have been but I doubt it would have lasted.  The rest of us were likely resigned to the result, me at least.  Shame Remoaners don't have the same grace or class, yourself included.

I see you’ve passed judgement on both my sanity and “class” today. Noted. Thanks for that.

But it does rather beg the question as to why I should give a hoot what people like you think.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Raja Clavata

[JRDS]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I see you’ve passed judgement on both my sanity and “class” today. Noted. Thanks for that.

But it does rather beg the question as to why I should give a hoot what people like you think.

You don't, like most patronising Remoaners.  What are your thoughts on the You Tube compilation?

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[Raja Clavata]

1 minute ago, JRDS said:

You don't, like most patronising Remoaners.

Finally, you got something right.

[JRDS]

Indeed I did. 

Your thoughts on the You Tube compilation, you must be so proud of all the patriotic statesmen and women vowing to enact the result and their actions since.

I know I am humbled by them.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JRDS

[Scully]

Speaking of ‘patronising’, am reading a very entertaining ( and somewhat informative ) book at the moment written by Quentin Letts, entitled ‘Patronising ********’. Well worth a read. 🙂

[andrewluke]

1 hour ago, martyn2233 said:

I’m glad the eu are fed up with us that way we leave with no deal stuff em.

what happens when/ if we have another vote and we vote leave again?

didn't David Cameron try to sort out a remain deal with the EU before he called for a referendum but was unsuccessful that's why he called the referendum??