BREXIT

[Rewulf]

10 hours ago, oowee said:

  16 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Do we ? Where is the evidence for that.

40 years of integration. Well we were obviously not that integrated if we voted to leave were we ?

More importantly , why do we need to pay the EU for the privilege ?

Benefits are usually paid for. I see, and the countries that are net beneficiaries , what do they pay for the benefits ?

No argument there, again , we need to pay 10 billion a year for it ?

Many , like 52 % ? The rest of the statement sounds like something from a dystopian film 'given enough time, they will do as they are told '

? You lost me in your darkness. Good swerve , but it was you that spoke of 'the many' coming round to their way of thinking..eventually.

Your opinion again , its not really EVERYONES opinion Grant ...we ve learned alright, weve learned A LOT,,

I take it we agree Do you seriously see no faults with the EU ? Even the EU see the faults in themselves 😂

 

NOW youre being really silly.
Our Eu  'NEIGHBOURS' have spent some considerable time and resources , trying to bring us under their jack boot , with fire and sword.
We in turn , WITH Uncle Sam have prevailed, and saved them from themselves , AND  continue to do so .

I don't recognise this fantasy Read some history then, some of it quite recent, and stop pretending that the EU are some kind of fatherly guide, helping us achieve our potential.
They are a business , and we are a customer , subsidising other customers , who they favour above us.

So tell me again about relationships ....?

I would hope at your age you knew the basics? 
 Ill tell you the basics.
You treat your partner with respect, you dont threaten, cajole, or intimidate them, you dont threaten to 'punish' them if they decide to leave you.

If they are unhappy, you try to compromise and understand their problems, you attempt to reach middle ground, understand that they can walk away from the relationship if you dont.
If you cannot do these things , and one or both parties find that the benefits of being together only seem to travel one way, have the good grace to part on good terms, for the sake of peace, and for the benefit of any mutual friends you may have.

You dont DEMAND money , especially when it isnt owed, to LET you go.

If one party cannot let go, and sets conditions that hinder an amicable parting, be aware that 'friends' will observe , and possible pick sides, opinions will change, due to poor behaviour.

There you go , some BASICS for you, or do you know better ?
 

 

[Rewulf]

46 minutes ago, oowee said:

I never saw the WW111 quote and if it was said I hope its well off the mark. Recession is well on the way. I blame Trump 🙂 

I can help you there.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

 

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

be aware that 'friends' will observe ,

What friends are these?

[TK421]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

Let’s put it another way, if being a member of the EU is such a great club to be in, why make it so difficult to leave? Surly they would be glad to see us leave this amazing elite prosperous club of theirs so they have more of it to themselves? Hmmm 🙄 

would make room for Turkey to join up?
 

As you were

Edited October 8, 2019 by TK421

[Retsdon]

Just now, TK421 said:

Let’s put it another way, if being a member of the EU is such a great club to be in, why make it so difficult to leave? Surly they would be glad to see us leave this amazing elite prosperous club of theirs so they have more of it to themselves? Hmmm 🙄 

Of course the UK can leave. But a) the UK doesn't want to be a true 3rd party country. b)Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. The second one is the one that's making everything so difficult.

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

What friends are these?

Other countries, other EU members.

Anyone with any interest, watching the behaviour of the EU , trying its very hardest NOT to let us go.
Certainly not without damaging its so called 'valued partner'

This is why we have to go now , they have been exposed for the nasty piece of work that they are.

Like a cheating partner, the trust is gone, that relationship will never be the same.

14 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Of course the UK can leave. But a) the UK doesn't want to be a true 3rd party country. b)Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. The second one is the one that's making everything so difficult.

Its as difficult as they want it to be .

[Rewulf]

This is from a Facebook group Im a member of, I cant guarantee its come from No10 , but it certainly makes a lot of sense.
It also confirms a lot of what I suspected, and have written about on here.

'

Earlier today, I sent a message to a contact in Number 10 asking them how the Brexit talks were going. They sent a long reply which I think gives a pretty clear sense of where they think things are.

So, in the interest of trying to let people understand where Number 10 reckon the negotiations are, here is their response:

 

‘The negotiations will probably end this week. Varadkar doesn’t want to negotiate. Varadkar was keen on talking before the Benn Act when he thought that the choice would be ‘new deal or no deal’. Since the Benn Act passed he has gone very cold and in the last week the official channels and the backchannels have also gone cold. Varadkar has also gone back on his commitments — he said if we moved on manufactured goods then he would also move but instead he just attacked us publicly. It’s clear he wants to gamble on a second referendum and that he’s encouraging Barnier to stick to the line that the UK cannot leave the EU without leaving Northern Ireland behind.

 

There are quite a few people in Paris and Berlin who would like to discuss our offer but Merkel and Macron won’t push Barnier unless Ireland says it wants to negotiate. Those who think Merkel will help us are deluded. As things stand, Dublin will do nothing, hoping we offer more, then at the end of this week they may say ‘OK, let’s do a Northern Ireland only backstop with a time limit’, which is what various players have been hinting at, then we’ll say No, and that will probably be the end.

 

Varadkar thinks that either there will be a referendum or we win a majority but we will just put this offer back on the table so he thinks he can’t lose by refusing to compromise now. Given his assumptions, Varadkar’s behaviour is arguably rational but his assumptions are, I think, false. Ireland and Brussels listen to all the people who lost the referendum, they don’t listen to those who won the referendum and they don’t understand the electoral dynamics here.

 

If this deal dies in the next few days, then it won’t be revived. To marginalise the Brexit Party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’. They thought that if May went then Brexit would get softer. It seems few have learned from this mistake. They think we’re bluffing and there’s nothing we can do about that, not least given the way May and Hammond constantly talked tough then folded.

 

So, if talks go nowhere this week, the next phase will require us to set out our view on the Surrender Act. The Act imposes narrow duties. Our legal advice is clear that we can do all sorts of things to scupper delay which for obvious reasons we aren’t going into details about. Different lawyers see the “frustration principle” very differently especially on a case like this where there is no precedent for primary legislation directing how the PM conducts international discussions.

 

We will make clear privately and publicly that countries which oppose delay will go the front of the queue for future cooperation — cooperation on things both within and outside EU competences. Those who support delay will go to the bottom of the queue. [This source also made clear that defence and security cooperation will inevitably be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in against the will of its government] Supporting delay will be seen by this government as hostile interference in domestic politics, and over half of the public will agree with us.

 

We will also make clear that this government will not negotiate further so any delay would be totally pointless. They think now that if there is another delay we will keep coming back with new proposals. This won’t happen. We’ll either leave with no deal on 31 October or there will be an election and then we will leave with no deal.

 

‘When they say ‘so what is the point of delay?’, we will say “This is not our delay, the government is not asking for a delay — Parliament is sending you a letter and Parliament is asking for a delay but official government policy remains that delay is an atrocious idea that everyone should dismiss. Any delay will in effect be negotiated between you, Parliament, and the courts — we will wash our hands of it, we won’t engage in further talks, we obviously won’t given any undertakings about cooperative behaviour, everything to do with ‘duty of sincere cooperation’ will be in the toilet, we will focus on winning the election on a manifesto of immediately revoking the entire EU legal order without further talks, and then we will leave. Those who supported delay will face the inevitable consequences of being seen to interfere in domestic politics in a deeply unpopular way by colluding with a Parliament that is as popular as the clap.

 

Those who pushed the Benn Act intended to sabotage a deal and they’ve probably succeeded. So the main effect of it will probably be to help us win an election by uniting the leave vote and then a no deal Brexit. History is full of such ironies and tragedies.’

Now, this is—obviously—only one side of the negotiations view of things. It does, though, make clear Downing Street’s pessimism about getting a deal this week and its thinking about how to handle the coming extension and election campaign.'

[oowee]

We can leave. Simply walk away go now get out. But...... we dont want to. 

Tariff plan. Less than 20% of EU goods (by value) exported to UK will be subject to tariff. 51% of UK exports will face tariff. Can we afford no deal? 

[TK421]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

We can leave. Simply walk away go now get out. But...... we dont want to. 

 

What’s this ‘we’ ****? Let’s get on with it I say! Sooner the better

[Rewulf]

41 minutes ago, oowee said:

Tariff plan. Less than 20% of EU goods (by value) exported to UK will be subject to tariff. 51% of UK exports will face tariff. Can we afford no deal? 

Where did you acquire those magic figures ?

[TK421]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Where did you acquire those magic figures ?

From the magical figure tree of delusions, next to the dancing unicorns of peace and harmony 🦄 

[Dave-G]

45 minutes ago, oowee said:

We can leave. Simply walk away go now get out. But...... we dont want to. 

Tariff plan. Less than 20% of EU goods (by value) exported to UK will be subject to tariff. 51% of UK exports will face tariff. Can we afford no deal? 

We can equalise that by raising our EU import tariffs to a similar amount as EU export tariffs. After a while that would reduce the amount we spend with EU because our own producers would soon re-equip and ultimately improve our self sufficiency towards as it was before the EU stripped our industrial capabilities to shift the skills to less developed European countries that we subsidise - which causes us a double whammy.

[TK421]

4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

We can equalise that by raising our EU import tariffs to a similar amount as EU export tariffs. After a while that would reduce the amount we spend with EU because our own producers would soon re-equip and ultimately improve our self sufficiency towards as it was before the EU stripped our industrial capabilities to shift the skills to less developed European countries that we subsidise - which causes us a double whammy.

Absolutely 👍

[Rewulf]

It appears the information I put up earlier, is in fact from No 10 , and likely penned by the Arch Lord of Leave, Darth Cummings 

In other news, the EU have angrily told Boris to stop playing games with peoples lives , especially ones they cant win 

In other other news, EU sources have let it be known the only way there can be any deal on the Irish border, is if Ireland agree with it, and Brussels have told Ireland not to agree to anything except leaving NI in the EU for perpetuity, at the same time, they want to preserve the good friday agreement ?!   

How anyone can still defend the motives of the bloc is astounding, its like the script for a really bad film 

[oowee]

The data has changed as of today. Govt has relaxed further tariff on HGV's and added some in for some clothing. 

14 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

We can equalise that by raising our EU import tariffs to a similar amount as EU export tariffs. After a while that would reduce the amount we spend with EU because our own producers would soon re-equip and ultimately improve our self sufficiency towards as it was before the EU stripped our industrial capabilities to shift the skills to less developed European countries that we subsidise - which causes us a double whammy.

We could try it but the impact would be that we could not afford some essentials hence the proposed arrangements. 70% of imports to the EU are Tariff free, it's some of these goods we will be competing against when trying to sell our tariff applied goods to the EU. 

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It appears the information I put up earlier, is in fact from No 10 , and likely penned by the Arch Lord of Leave, Darth Cummings 

In other news, the EU have angrily told Boris to stop playing games with peoples lives , especially ones they cant win 

In other other news, EU sources have let it be known the only way there can be any deal on the Irish border, is if Ireland agree with it, and Brussels have told Ireland not to agree to anything except leaving NI in the EU for perpetuity, at the same time, they want to preserve the good friday agreement ?!   

How anyone can still defend the motives of the bloc is astounding, its like the script for a really bad film 

Yep a script written by the Tory faithful with staring roles for those in the slow lane. 

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

The data has changed as of today. Govt has relaxed further tariff on HGV's and added some in for some clothing. 

Theoretical points from an ardent remain supporters blog, one who isnt even a UK resident, but somehow has plenty to say about it , is he on commission ? 😂

The better question to ask is , why set such import tariffs ?
You of all people , should remember, we dont deal with the EU , the EU produce nothing but gas and red tape.
We deal with European business , and they deal with us , the EU is just a distraction, it is NOT a place.
If we fall out with Brussels , it is no reflection on the European business we work with.

For he EU , its just another nail in their coffin.

[oowee]

😂 Are you serious?

The better question to ask is , why set such import tariffs ?

For the same reason that the UK is choosing to apply them.  

You of all people , should remember, we dont deal with the EU , the EU produce nothing but gas and red tape. 
We deal with European business , and they deal with us , the EU is just a distraction, it is NOT a place.

Of course you can deal withe the monkey but the organ grinder will call the tune. 

If we fall out with Brussels , it is no reflection on the European business we work with.

Of course why would it be? 

For he EU , its just another nail in their coffin.

 The EU also works with the World Trade Organization (WTO) to help set global trade rules and remove obstacles to trade between WTO members.

EU and the WTO 

Edited October 8, 2019 by oowee

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

😂 Are you serious?

You dont understand the answer , because you didnt ask YOURSELF the question 

 

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Of course you can deal withe the monkey but the organ grinder will call the tune. 

That answer conflicts with your next one .

 

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

If we fall out with Brussels , it is no reflection on the European business we work with.

Of course why would it be? 

Because of the organ grinder.

 

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

 The EU also works with the World Trade Organization (WTO) to help set global trade rules and remove create obstacles to trade between WTO members.

Strange dont you think, how the WTO doesnt seek  to control member nations , and supercede their laws with their own?

They dont seem to want 50,000 employees , or their own army for some reason either.

I wonder what the fees are for being a member ? 🙄

[Retsdon]

This thread is veering off into fantasy land. The EU countries will stand 100 percent behind the Republic of Ireland, and Ireland won't accept a deal that puts a physical border across the island of Ireland trashing the Good Friday Agreement.

Baldrick Cummings cunning plan is to run the political process off a cliff, thereby forcing the EU to erect its own border in Ireland to defend the integrity of the Single Market. It might work. But it will mean that the UK can kiss goodbye to any vestige of remaining goodwill among the other 27 countries of the EU, and it means that it becomes a matter of when, not if, the Troubles return to Northern Ireland. It will also alienate the Americans, who have a proprietorial interest in the Good Friday Agreement.

But hey ho, ... let's push on and see. How bad could it be?

Edited October 8, 2019 by Retsdon

[TIGHTCHOKE]

10 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

This thread is veering off into fantasy land. The EU countries will stand 100 percent behind the Republic of Ireland, and Ireland won't accept a deal that puts a physical border across the island of Ireland trashing the Good Friday Agreement.

Baldrick Cummings cunning plan is to run the political process off a cliff, thereby forcing the EU to erect its own border in Ireland to defend the integrity of the Single Market. It might work. But it will mean that the UK can kiss goodbye to any vestige of remaining goodwill among the other 27 countries of the EU, and it means that it becomes a matter of when, not if, the Troubles return to Northern Ireland. It will also alienate the Americans, who have a proprietorial interest in the Good Friday Agreement.

But hey ho, ... let's push on and see. How bad could it be?

It has been doing that for an awful long time!

[panoma1]

The ROI politicians won’t agree any deal because they are after tying NI to the EU and thus eventually.......to themselves, in a united Republic!

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

The EU countries will stand 100 percent behind the Republic of Ireland,

Why, because they are in the same trade bloc ? Thats a serious error of judgment , they will do whats best for them, not the EU as a whole.

 

8 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

and Ireland won't accept a deal that puts a physical border across the island of Ireland trashing the Good Friday Agreement.

But they will accept a course of action that definitely will ?
Now whos in fantasy land ?

 

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Baldrick Cummings cunning plan is to run the political process off a cliff, thereby forcing the EU to erect its own border in Ireland to defend the integrity of the Single Market. It might work

How can it not ? And even if it doesnt , it doesnt bother us at all, its a good strategy.

 

10 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But it will mean that the UK can kiss goodbye to any vestige of remaining goodwill among the other 27 countries of the EU,

See above , no it wont, what does Ireland do for them ?

 

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

and it means that it becomes a matter of when, not if, the Troubles return to Northern Ireland.

Rubbish ! The troubles will not return unless the people of Ireland want them to, not because a non border gets erected in the wet dreams of some Brussels lackey.

 

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It will also alienate the Americans, who have a proprietorial interest in the Good Friday Agreement.

Yes , they will fall out with their No1 ally over it..NOT .
Dont get excited because a couple of democrat senators see an opening to bash Trump on, election year coming , they have bigger battles to fight.

 

14 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But hey ho, ... let's push on and see. How bad could it be?

Or good ?
Im ready , are you ?

Think about it , the so called exodus of skilled EU workers leaving Blighty to go home as were told , might give you your opening back in ?

[TK421]

Anyway, when are we leaving the EU as per my vote 😂

[Rewulf]

Just now, panoma1 said:

The ROI politicians won’t agree any deal because they are after tying NI to the EU and thus eventually.......to themselves, in a united Republic!

Of course, and if anything would reignite violence in NI , it would be that.

Just now, TK421 said:

Anyway, when are we leaving the EU as per my vote 😂

31/10 by the looks of things 

[panoma1]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Why, because they are in the same trade bloc ? Thats a serious error of judgment , they will do whats best for them, not the EU as a whole.

 

But they will accept a course of action that definitely will ?
Now whos in fantasy land ?

 

How can it not ? And even if it doesnt , it doesnt bother us at all, its a good strategy.

 

See above , no it wont, what does Ireland do for them ?

 

Rubbish ! The troubles will not return unless the people of Ireland want them to, not because a non border gets erected in the wet dreams of some Brussels lackey....they will if the ROI try to use the Brexit impasse to force NI into a united Ireland!

 

Yes , they will fall out with their No1 ally over it..NOT .
Dont get excited because a couple of democrat senators see an opening to bash Trump on, election year coming , they have bigger battles to fight.

 

Or good ?
Im ready , are you ?

Think about it , the so called exodus of skilled EU workers leaving Blighty to go home as were told , might give you your opening back in ?