BREXIT

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1032570/Brexit-news-Jaguar-Land-Rover-Solihull-Birmingham-Slovakia-tata-motors-leave-EU

Try that one for starters.

And? This is probably an example of State aid keeping investment in the EU. State Aid cannot be used to move a plant from one State to the other. I dont have the details but the headline story is ********. 

Jaguar had grant aid for Castle Brom it had to conform to EU rules just as the JLR plant in SK. 

The BMW engine plant in the midlands had similar support as did countless others in UK.

With every one of them there is a que of EU membets going through the subsidys looking to ensure compliance. 

[Rewulf]

35 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Excellent - it's all about economics - why can't a company relocate to another country?

Who said you couldnt ?
But dont dress it up like the EU is good for us , we put £10 bn + a year into EU coffers , how much does Slovakia put in ?
Explain that to the people who have lost their jobs to free market 'economics'

 

37 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Reduce costs, get the factory nearer to the market's it is serving -

Yeah , they sell lots of high end Jags and RR s in Eastern Europe 🙄

39 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

So we come out of the EU - will this change?  No - because the EU will still exist and they will be able to rape and pillage the UK without us having any say in it at all -

Really ?

How do you work that one out ?

39 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

The UK is just a little cog in a much bigger machine - we don't operate in isolation of Europe whether we are in the EU or out of it.    Europe won't suddenly disappear overnight and the UK will float off on it's own.   We are connected in a 21st century world - this isn't the 1970s anymore and we can't think like we have some sort of Empire to preserve.

Im not sure why you keep saying stuff like this , that no one except yourself has mentioned or implied ?

You asked a question, you got a reply, your retort doesnt really make sense.

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

And? This is probably an example of State aid keeping investment in the EU. State Aid cannot be used to move a plant from one State to the other. I dont have the details but the headline story is ********. 

And ?  
State aid ? Is that another way of saying 'incentive to move' without breaking their own laws ? Jesus man !

'Keeping investment in the EU  '?? Were still in it !

'I dont have the details, but the headline is *******'  Classic !
I bet you wouldnt say that if it was in the guardian.
 

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Who said you couldnt ?
But dont dress it up like the EU is good for us , we put £10 bn + a year into EU coffers , how much does Slovakia put in ?
Explain that to the people who have lost their jobs to free market 'economics'

 

Yeah , they sell lots of high end Jags and RR s in Eastern Europe 🙄

Really ?

How do you work that one out ?

Im not sure why you keep saying stuff like this , that no one except yourself has mentioned or implied ?

You asked a question, you got a reply, your retort doesnt really make sense.

And ?  
State aid ? Is that another way of saying 'incentive to move' without breaking their own laws ? Jesus man !

'Keeping investment in the EU  '?? Were still in it !

'I dont have the details, but the headline is *******'  Classic !
I bet you wouldnt say that if it was in the guardian.
 

Its most likley aid for keeping the project in the EU. Without the bid its not possible to say on what basis the grant was made

[Rewulf]

Just now, oowee said:

Its most likley aid for keeping the project in the EU. Without the bid its not possible to say on what basis the grant was made

Youre an intelligent guy Grant, Im sure you can work it out 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Youre an intelligent guy Grant, Im sure you can work it out 

Just read the back ground and JLR bid Nitra (SK) against Mexico.

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

Just read the back ground and JLR bid Nitra (SK) against Mexico.

Of course it did, JLR spent £1bn on that plant , not to mention a much cheaper wage bill for its 1500 Slovakian employees (soon to be 2500) 

Oh and £125 million in 'state aid' to help build it https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6023_en.htm

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Of course it did, JLR spent £1bn on that plant , not to mention a much cheaper wage bill for its 1500 Slovakian employees (soon to be 2500) 

Oh and £125 million in 'state aid' to help build it https://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6023_en.htm

So in conclusion nothing to do with moving the plant from the uk. It was never here and could not be here. 

[Rewulf]

Just now, oowee said:

So in conclusion nothing to do with moving the plant from the uk. It was never here and could not be here. 

Not at all , theres already a plant here, with trained staff, they could have expanded, created more jobs.
The market for the cars is here, the dealerships , parts , support .
But a few shekels as a sweetener, lower wages, no doubt some under the counter promises, and voila !

A sobering thought.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

No wonder the Luxembourg PM was in such high spirits yesterday!!!!!!!

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

No wonder the Luxembourg PM was in such high spirits yesterday!!!!!!!

No surprises there - just as one would expect when Jean Claude Junker is a Luxembourg citizen.  He has set it up to feather his own nest.

[oowee]

20 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Not at all , theres already a plant here, with trained staff, they could have expanded, created more jobs.
The market for the cars is here, the dealerships , parts , support .
But a few shekels as a sweetener, lower wages, no doubt some under the counter promises, and voila !

A sobering thought.

Lets see some evidence rather than more bluster. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by oowee

[TIGHTCHOKE]

No, let's just leave!

[Vince Green]

17 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

No, let's just leave!

Agreed!

[Rewulf]

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lets see some evidence rather than more bluster. 

Evidence of what, are you refuting the figures ?

https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-much-eu-funding-member-states-get-per-person-2016-12?r=US&IR=T

Edited September 17, 2019 by Rewulf

[oowee]

No need for obfuscation. Where is the evidence that companirs are moved by inducement about the EU. You have proposed the JLR plant in Nitra. The evidence is that it was retained in the EU rather than lost. 

Any others you want to look at? 

[Dave-G]

I rather suspect (but don't have any proof) the German steel industry subsidy was part of the master plan to debilitate us by causing ours to wither away - along with heavy industries that used UK steel. The objective being to make us more vulnerable and less experienced to make ships and tanks etc like we were able to in WW2.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

No need for obfuscation. Where is the evidence that companirs are moved by inducement about the EU. You have proposed the JLR plant in Nitra. The evidence is that it was retained in the EU rather than lost. 

Any others you want to look at? 

Obfuscation ? 

Do you think any of he parties are going to publish the information necessary to convince you ?
Thereby incriminating themselves for one thing, and the EU making themselves even less popular in the UK than they already are ?

The link I gave you , from the EU s own website , where they admit to putting 125 million into Nitra , should tell you everything you need to know.
Or , you know, that might  have just been coincidence ? 😆

[oowee]

Just now, Dave-G said:

I rather suspect (but don't have any proof) the German steel industry subsidy was part of the master plan to debilitate us by causing ours to wither away - along with heavy industries that used UK steel. The objective being to make us more vulnerable and less experienced to make ships and tanks etc like we were able to in WW2.

????? 

Equally bizar. I suspect that JRM wants to return to the times when lords ruled and serfs doffed their caps but i dont have any proof for that either. 

 

[Rewulf]

Just now, oowee said:

????? 

Equally bizar. I suspect that JRM wants to return to the times when lords ruled and serfs doffed their caps but i dont have any proof for that either. 

 

You have plenty of proof that some of your pals in Westminster dont really care about public votes though ?

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Obfuscation ? 

Do you think any of he parties are going to publish the information necessary to convince you ?
Thereby incriminating themselves for one thing, and the EU making themselves even less popular in the UK than they already are ?

The link I gave you , from the EU s own website , where they admit to putting 125 million into Nitra , should tell you everything you need to know.
Or , you know, that might  have just been coincidence ? 😆

The money is from SK government. No evidence then just a belief. 

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You have plenty of proof that some of your pals in Westminster dont really care about public votes though ?

Strange you should say that 😁

 

[henry d]

26 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I rather suspect (but don't have any proof).

Is exactly where cajones like that should stop.

[JRDS]

3 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Thanks

Excellent - it's all about economics - why can't a company relocate to another country?  Reduce costs, get the factory nearer to the market's it is serving - that's the modern world.   So we come out of the EU - will this change?  No - because the EU will still exist and they will be able to rape and pillage the UK without us having any say in it at all - we will most likely still be contributing to the EU financially even though we are no longer members.

The UK is just a little cog in a much bigger machine - we don't operate in isolation of Europe whether we are in the EU or out of it.    Europe won't suddenly disappear overnight and the UK will float off on it's own.   We are connected in a 21st century world - this isn't the 1970s anymore and we can't think like we have some sort of Empire to preserve.

They can go where they want but not funded by UK Taxpayers, breaking the EU's own regulations.

 

 

[pinfireman]

At last, the truth is out............................

The Electoral Commission has found that two Remain campaigns that were set up less than a month before the referendum campaign worked together, breaking electoral law.

“We found that the ‘5 seconds campaign’ was a joint campaign run by WUAV and DDB UK Limited. Spending on the campaign was ‘joint’ or ‘common plan’ spending.”

Wake Up And Vote (WUAV) and DDB were just two of five campaigns that were all set up less than a month before the referendum, sharing big donors, and in total funnelling more than a million pounds into the Remain cause. The others seem to have avoided proper scrutiny…

WUAV and DDB created unbranded videos that was conveniently shared by the official Britain Stronger in Europe campaign, as if it was their content. DDB has been fined just £1,800 for failing to declare joint spending with Wake Up And Vote. This follows a £1,000 fine handed to DDB in March 2018 for other inaccuracies in its spending return…

Last year Guido reported (above) how Remainers shared data, suppliers and campaign materials, coordinated spending, funnelled £1 million to new campaigns set up in the month before the vote, and potentially spent double the legal limit. Guido even produced a special report into the matter…

Louise Edwards, the Commission’s Director of Regulation tells Guido, “Both Wake Up and Vote and DDB UK Limited had an important legal duty to accurately declare joint spending in their referendum spending returns. Both failed to do so, meaning that voters, looking at the reported spending, had no way of knowing that WUAV and DDB UK Limited had worked together on a campaign, or of how much either campaigner spent in total.” In short, Remainers cynically broke the law…

It has taken well over a year for the Electoral Commsion to act on WUAV and DDB. In June 2018 Priti Patel handed the Commission a dossier full of evidence. Initially the Electoral Commission refused to investigate the clearly dodgy practices, leading to outrage from Leavers at the clear bias of the organisation. Despite the work being done for them, the evident law breaking was only fined today, more than three years after the referendum. This is only a partial victory for Guido, as Priti’s dossier shows, the Electoral Commission scratched the surface…

SOURCE: GUIDO FAWKES.

What,s the betting the BBC fail to mention it?

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Lets see some evidence rather than more bluster. 

Prove otherwise?  Why should we do all the research?

[pinfireman]

9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

A very good post and I agree with practically all you say. I do have a difference of opinion with you regarding the steel industry. For decades Germany has illegally subsidised its own steel industry allowing it to undercut British Steel's sales in this country but also, and more importantly, strangling our ability to export. For many years this undermining has eroded the industry, preventing its ability to reinvest . China is only a late arrival, by the time it started making itself felt the damage was already done.

The real gripe was that everybody knew what was happening but the EU appeared happy to allow the illegal subsidy to continue. To me that was a big red flag, if it was the other way round and we were damaging Germany's steel industry with illegal subsidies would we get away with it? Not a level playing field.

I totally agree with you about the NHS, its like a bush that's been allowed to grow wild without structure. The key point is that at no time has the NHS employed a high number of EU nationals. I think at the highest it was 4.7%. Much less than Indian or Chinese nationals who have to apply for work permits. So the project fear assertion that the NHS would collapse if we left the EU was not true.

Correct!

On 16/09/2019 at 18:41, oowee said:

Surely depends on how many ways the leave vote is split? 

I would reckon on any election 1/3 of labour and Tory votes are not up for grabs. The other two thirds will be split by leave or remain and vote accordingly. Brexit party in the mix now of course.

Hopefully we dont get to it as i cant see any party getting a majority. 

Although a "high level" tory says they will not  work with TBP, when push comes to shove, it,s my bet that TBP will stand aside in the South West, and  the Conservatives will do the same in South Yorkshire......

22 hours ago, henry d said:

Ever had a thought of your own, or will you just rely on regurgitation?

If it annoys you, I,ll stay with regurgitation!  Seems the truth sometimes hurts, doesn,t it?

[pinfireman]

21 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Its not a thought, its a satirical political cartoon! And an appropriate one to boot! Lol!

Thank you!

21 hours ago, henry d said:

No it is a lack of thought that only has meaning to the echo chamber it is repeated to.

The truth hurts?

21 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Pot, kettle, black. 

20 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Intro

So we let the nation vote for something without explaining the implications of the decision - totally dependent on our useless politicians for that irrespective of which mob you had an allegiance to.

If you are fortunate enough to understand global commerce, where the stuff comes from that you buy/eat/consume and have an understanding of how the various nations, currencies and trading groups are intertwined going back 40 years the you might have a nagging doubt that our amazing country has been tragically let down by individuals that are pursuing their own short term agendas.

All that stuff about controlling immigration and pumping money into the NHS was just emotive guff - when we leave the EU the problems will be exactly the same.  And guess what? The same mindless drongos that caused the problem will blame someone else.

Recession is already here

I'm pretty certain I know what will happen post Brexit and it won't be pretty for the average family, life is going to become a lot more expensive - check out 'Economic Reality' below.   The news outlets aren't saying it yet but the UK is slipping into a recession, everywhere you look there is a cut-back on spending against a backdrop of rising costs for the basic things like food.   Aldi have announced that they are opening a new supermarket every week - go figure why they'd do that. 

Economic reality

Even here on a shooting forum - where do the raw materials for our ammunition come from?  Where do most of the affordable guns come from?  Yup - most of it comes from the EU.   Right now all goods are sold VAT free from the supplying country and pass through the EU borders without collecting customs duty.  UK VAT is charged at the point of sale.  Simples.

So has anyone bothered to explain what will happen when we aren't in the EU?   The EU supplier company will apply VAT (legal requirement) and their country border will apply an export duty charge. At the UK border HMRC will levy UK duty+VAT and then the retailer that sells you the product will have to apply UK VAT.   Net result everything (that is EVERYTHING) that's imported is going have the costs rolled upwards and is going to become VERY expensive.   This is serious stuff - when screaming for exit on the 31st of October without a 'deal' you have to understand that decent people will lose a standard of living that many assume is a democratic right.  It isn't.

I have no axe to grind either-way on this topic btw..

The Democratic vote

Yep, the nation voted leave and by that in a democratic society our elected representatives should be getting us out.   However it seems that some politicians  - labelled 'Remainers' have figured out that maybe this is actually political suicide for themselves and the UK nation as a whole that's been fed by foolish people who either just plain don't understand or had some personal agenda.

Finally - don't torch or troll me for the post - happy to discuss if you believe the above is different to the facts that you understand.  I saw recently that someone was trying to find more about me - was on here with another username some years back and couldn't get my password  reset. 

 

"However it seems that some politicians  - labelled 'Remainers' have figured out that maybe this is actually political suicide for themselves "

Well you got that bit right!

20 hours ago, armsid said:

i voted leave and we were told by HM GOV at the time they would implement the decision whichever way it went that has not happened yet i was in my20,s when we voted for a group of countries that traded with each other tarriff free .we could feed ourselves as farmers grew what was needed factories turned out goods to sell we even made cars buses and lorries all without the help of what is now the EU now what have we got..Everything is german french or itallian we own nothing this is probably why the pension funds are low.we had steelworks engineering all world class.This could all come back and provide jobs and stop our carbon footprint by making things here in stead of importing The reason i voted was 1 i dont want my life run by unelected and unsackable ministers in europe  2 i am fed up with people coming here committing crimes and not being able to deport them 3 our nhs flourished pre EU why cant it now 4  we have a bad habit here of importing skills while our own engineering,colleges closed  5  i want to be known as british and not a eu citizen, ruled by an elected gov. that is not pressured to do things by the EU             THE WORLD IS OUR OYSTER

Well said!