figgy Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just watched the latest from TGS with Mudpatten testing the Eley Pro Eco Wad steel carts. Pleasant watch and the number tree shot gave good patterns at 50 yards. Would have been nice if the was that sat in water was picked up and examined for holes tears etc. Noticed johnny picked one up at the end and it was going soft but never showed it in close up. Mudpatten did you pick any up from the ones you had out a few times where the was had softened to check ? I've had pin holing in hard plastic steel wads so I expected the softened eco wads to do same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 Im looking forward to watching it, I did watch one on the eley channel the other day, can't remember the blokes name but he was decoying with thw eco wad. He put a wad in a bowl of water and left if for the time he was there, about 4 hours or so and it had already started to break down. Hopefully it won't be long before the prices come down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Farmboy91 said: Im looking forward to watching it, I did watch one on the eley channel the other day, can't remember the blokes name but he was decoying with thw eco wad. He put a wad in a bowl of water and left if for the time he was there, about 4 hours or so and it had already started to break down. Hopefully it won't be long before the prices come down a bit. Don't hold yer breath, remember, you do not need them for clayshooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Westley said: Don't hold yer breath, remember, you do not need them for clayshooting I think eley have done the sensible thing and definitely look to be ahead in the game here but maybe they are just a little bit too far ahead. Your right though, clay grounds aren't going to jump on the eco band wagon before they have too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) I am sorry, but I refuse to jump on the" ban lead shot" campaign wagon, when I and several millions of other people, are still getting their water supplied through LEAD pipes ! IF lead is so bad for me, why aren't the water companies doing away with lead pipes ? Edited October 27, 2019 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 They're hoping by drinking water out of lead pipes you forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hod Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Westley said: I am sorry, but I refuse to jump on the" ban lead shot" campaign wagon, when I and several millions of other people, are still getting their water supplied through LEAD pipes ! IF lead is so bad for me, why aren't the water companies doing away with lead pipes ? Google is your friend. I was curious, turns out over time a barrier layer of effectively scale forms. So there’s no transfer of lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted October 27, 2019 Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 I think now a better move on eleys part would be to start using them wads through out the range. If they have perfected it there's no reason not to as surely long term its got to be cheaper to produce every cart with the same wad rather than 3 different ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, hod said: Google is your friend. I was curious, turns out over time a barrier layer of effectively scale forms. So there’s no transfer of lead. It does it only becomes dangerous again when messed with. It's why they stopped the digging up and replacing lead pipes years ago. Only replace them if they burst or get dug into. With micro plastic the next big worry lead pipes might be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Westley said: I am sorry, but I refuse to jump on the" ban lead shot" campaign wagon, when I and several millions of other people, are still getting their water supplied through LEAD pipes ! IF lead is so bad for me, why aren't the water companies doing away with lead pipes ? Agreed,we have to remember lead shot is a problem that does`n`t really exist....the anti shooting lobby are ,as usual,simply repeating their mantra often enough to make it fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 What are the wads made from, PVA? I asked, as PVA is used in many applications in angling, mostly carp, for delivering free bait close to the hook rig, which melts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, matone said: Agreed,we have to remember lead shot is a problem that does`n`t really exist....the anti shooting lobby are ,as usual,simply repeating their mantra often enough to make it fact. Well the GWCT isn't anti-shooting, and this is what they say: https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/briefings/lead-ammunition/ Edited October 28, 2019 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, stagboy said: Well the GWCT isn't anti-shooting, and this is what they say: https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/briefings/lead-ammunition/ 70% seems like a lot be brought from game dealers that have been shot with lead shot still, especially when the next paragraph says no one had been prosecuted over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) Just a quick query. If these are made of dissolving plastic, are we not simply introducing plastic into more ecosystems? If it dissolves, instead of being unsightly rubbish, the plastic drains into shores, streams, rivers and seas to be ingested by animals? Just because it can't be seen doesn't mean it isn't there. I was more interested in the previous Gamebore fibre cups for steel shot in his previous clip. Sure, it doesn't perform as well (yet) but it will simply rot away in situ. It's something that has troubled me since eley launched these wads. Maybe someone can enlighten me? Edited October 28, 2019 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 That depends if the plastic breaks down chemically / biochemically or merely dissolves / breaksdown physically into micro plastics. Some plasics do biodegrade like PLA and more being develloped all the time. Plastic doesnt always mean bad, there are thousands of plastics and not all of them last forever. The greater the need the more likely better biodegradable plasics will be developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, bigroomboy said: That depends if the plastic breaks down chemically / biochemically or merely dissolves / breaksdown physically into micro plastics. Some plasics do biodegrade like PLA and more being develloped all the time. Plastic doesnt always mean bad, there are thousands of plastics and not all of them last forever. The greater the need the more likely better biodegradable plasics will be developed. Thanks for that. What do the plastic wads biodegrade into then? The fibre ones are organic / cardboard based so they basically become mulch. Please excuse my curiosity- I'm partly playing devils advocate and partly wondering if it will be lept on by Packham and condition as a futile or blinkered gesture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Big Al said: Just a quick query. If these are made of dissolving plastic, are we not simply introducing plastic into more ecosystems? If it dissolves, instead of being unsightly rubbish, the plastic drains into shores, streams, rivers and seas to be ingested by animals? Just because it can't be seen doesn't mean it isn't there. I was more interested in the previous Gamebore fibre cups for steel shot in his previous clip. Sure, it doesn't perform as well (yet) but it will simply rot away in situ. It's something that has troubled me since eley launched these wads. Maybe someone can enlighten me? Eley Pro eco wads are made of some sort of starch, I believe. They are not plastic. Anyway, Eley are adamant that they are truly biodegradable, as opposed to merely breaking down. Could be the future. I have some now (took a month to get them, mind), suitable for ordinary game/rough shooting in an ordinary game gun (or so I am told; not super steel) and so far so good- cannot tell the difference from lead. But it is early days, admittedly. I once purchased some carts that had plastic "photodegradable" wads. Those are the worst of all - sure, they break down, but only into tiny pieces of plastic which cause even worse pollution etc than larger pieces. I just saw the "degradable" bit on the packaging - didn't read it properly. Edited October 28, 2019 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 8 hours ago, stagboy said: Well the GWCT isn't anti-shooting, and this is what they say: https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/briefings/lead-ammunition/ I seem to recall that the Chairman of the late 'Lead Action Group' wasn't anti shooting either ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, stagboy said: Eley Pro eco wads are made of some sort of starch, I believe. They are not plastic. Anyway, Eley are adamant that they are truly biodegradable, as opposed to merely breaking down. Could be the future. I have some now (took a month to get them, mind), suitable for ordinary game/rough shooting in an ordinary game gun (or so I am told; not super steel) and so far so good- cannot tell the difference from lead. But it is early days, admittedly. I once purchased some carts that had plastic "photodegradable" wads. Those are the worst of all - sure, they break down, but only into tiny pieces of plastic which cause even worse pollution etc than larger pieces. I just saw the "degradable" bit on the packaging - didn't read it properly. Starch is fine by me. A plastic "soup" isn't. Good to know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Westley said: I seem to recall that the Chairman of the late 'Lead Action Group' wasn't anti shooting either ? He was a lifelong shooter, I am, told. But became very anti-lead, perhaps due to his scientific background. (But yes, I do understand what you mean!) I don't suppose Shooting Gazette contributor Rob Yorke is anti-shooting either. But see this:https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/alternatives-to-lead-shot-108456 Note the comments from all the shooting orgs. Like it or not, an increasing number of shooters are eschewing lead. Edited October 28, 2019 by stagboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, Big Al said: Starch is fine by me. A plastic "soup" isn't. Good to know. Thanks. Starch is just a natural polymer aka plastic. Its all about what that plastic is rather than plastic being a by word for destroying the evironment. PLA for example will break down to lactic acid which then gets "digested" by micro organisms. The problem is you need to know what the plastic is to know whats happening. Things like putting it in water and watching is go mushy isnt that helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 It's good to know if animals digest it, it's not going to potentially cause problems for the animal. I'd hate to see a ban on lead for shooting, but I think its going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, stagboy said: He was a lifelong shooter, I am, told. But became very anti-lead, perhaps due to his scientific background. (But yes, I do understand what you mean!) I don't suppose Shooting Gazette contributor Rob Yorke is anti-shooting either. But see this:https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/alternatives-to-lead-shot-108456 Note the comments from all the shooting orgs. Like it or not, an increasing number of shooters are eschewing lead. EXCEPT those with, what are quickly becoming, worthless English shotguns perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, bigroomboy said: Starch is just a natural polymer aka plastic. All plastics are polymers, but not all polymers are plastics...... starch is a polymer made up of linked glucose molecules, not a plastic which is made up of long chain hydrocarbons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, Stonepark said: All plastics are polymers, but not all polymers are plastics...... starch is a polymer made up of linked glucose molecules, not a plastic which is made up of long chain hydrocarbons. Let's just admit that plastic is not the correct term to use, as it is a reference to physical characteristics and has nothing to do with the chemical structure, and move on. 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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