Police Action

[hod]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Simply because by delaying the spread of Covid19 we are allowing the NHS Staff to be better prepared and to manage to treat the flow of patients.

By doing so we make best use of the hospitals and facilities, rather than have a mass outbreak that could not be coped with and that would lead to more deaths through lack of treatment.

Really VERY easy to understand.

And yet (as this thread demonstrates) some people find this hard to grasp. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, hod said:

And yet (as this thread demonstrates) some people find this hard to grasp. 

Oh yes, it is right across Pigeon Watch and society apparently!

[12gauge82]

11 minutes ago, hod said:

And yet (as this thread demonstrates) some people find this hard to grasp. 

I don't think there's many who find it hard to grasp. 

It's greed, money before lives, just look at the likes of Astley ect

[AVB]

12 hours ago, GingerCat said:

Cancelled rest days and leave, minimum 12 hour shifts,  not going home or seeing family. Just working. 

That and diminished demand for resourcing as there is little crime at the minute apart from domestics. Not many car crashes. My last 4 days have been breaking up groups of people, parties and bbq's and dealing with  dead bodies with the occasional fight at a supermarket. 

I think the majority of people, myself included, appreciate to good job that a lot of police officers do. 

I would be interested to know that as a servicing officer do you feel you need more powers at the moment and how do you feel when you see fellow officers acting like complete idiots as some of the videos show?

[GingerCat]

25 minutes ago, AVB said:

I think the majority of people, myself included, appreciate to good job that a lot of police officers do. 

I would be interested to know that as a servicing officer do you feel you need more powers at the moment and how do you feel when you see fellow officers acting like complete idiots as some of the videos show?

It depends really, if the public want the police to be able to enforce social distancing and testing etc then police need the powers to be able to do that. If the powers aren't there all we can do is ask nicely before being told to f off. 

As for the videos. The force is made up of members of the public. All day long, and night for that matter. Police deal with members of the public being  complete idiots. We don't video that and post it online. Probably run out of room on the net.   On the odd occasion a cop is a bit silly it becomes some national scandal and the "I can do it better" brigade appear. Also a few of these videos are heavily edited. I'm very sceptical of them to be honest but the reality is we are human just like you. 

I suppose the question is how do you feel when you see members of the public acting like complete idiots. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by GingerCat

[AVB]

7 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

It depends really, if the public want the police to be able to enforce social distancing and testing etc then police need the powers to be able to do that. If the powers aren't there all we can do is ask nicely before being told to f off. 

As for the videos. The force is made up of members of the public. All day long, and night for that matter. Police deal with members of the public being  complete idiots. We don't video that and post it online. Probably run out of room on the net.   On the odd occasion a cop is a bit silly it becomes some national scandal and the "I can do it better" brigade appear. Also a few of these videos are heavily edited. I'm very sceptical of them to be honest but the reality is we are human just like you. 

I suppose the question is how do you feel when you see members of the public acting like complete idiots. 

Thanks for responding. I think the public do want you to enforce social distancing (I do) but my question was more about powers to stop people travelling and whether there needs to be more clarity around ‘necessity’? 

As for the public acting like idiots there are many many examples on the internet and I normally think “what a dork”. I just can’t imaging what was going through the the head of the police officer who fined that shop owner for putting chalk markers outside her shop to help enforce a 2m distance. I just think they are seriously deranged and makes me worry if they are given even more powers. Does the average copper think “he is just doing his job” or do they also think they are a idiot and ultimately making all of your fellow officers jobs harder? 

[GingerCat]

37 minutes ago, AVB said:

Thanks for responding. I think the public do want you to enforce social distancing (I do) but my question was more about powers to stop people travelling and whether there needs to be more clarity around ‘necessity’? 

As for the public acting like idiots there are many many examples on the internet and I normally think “what a dork”. I just can’t imaging what was going through the the head of the police officer who fined that shop owner for putting chalk markers outside her shop to help enforce a 2m distance. I just think they are seriously deranged and makes me worry if they are given even more powers. Does the average copper think “he is just doing his job” or do they also think they are a idiot and ultimately making all of your fellow officers jobs harder? 

They think the same as you do. 

Without the powers we cannot enforce anything, it's that simple. I can ask nicely however no one will listen to a damn thing. The prime minister asked the nation nicely the other day and what happened? It was like a bank holiday with all the cafes bars etc open and packed. If he gets told to jog on then what will the average copper get told? Mostly we are  abused in any case so its nothing new, after all everyone (especially those that "pay your wages" presumably from their giro, can do our job better.

Unless I can offer a penalty like arrest or fine or whatever there is no incentive for anyone to do anything I ask. Sad fact of life but there it is. 

 

As for necessity I'm no virologist however it's a new virus and we don't know what it does really other than kill between 0.1 and 3% depending on the figures. The public wont distance themselves as demonstrated repeatedly. Do I like the powers, no. I really don't, are they also a sad fact of life, appears so. I hope it passes quickly.

[AVB]

18 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

They think the same as you do. 

Without the powers we cannot enforce anything, it's that simple. I can ask nicely however no one will listen to a damn thing. The prime minister asked the nation nicely the other day and what happened? It was like a bank holiday with all the cafes bars etc open and packed. If he gets told to jog on then what will the average copper get told? Mostly we are  abused in any case so its nothing new, after all everyone (especially those that "pay your wages" presumably from their giro, can do our job better.

Unless I can offer a penalty like arrest or fine or whatever there is no incentive for anyone to do anything I ask. Sad fact of life but there it is. 

 

As for necessity I'm no virologist however it's a new virus and we don't know what it does really other than kill between 0.1 and 3% depending on the figures. The public wont distance themselves as demonstrated repeatedly. Do I like the powers, no. I really don't, are they also a sad fact of life, appears so. I hope it passes quickly.

 Cheers. Keep safe. 

[panoma1]

42 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Unless I can offer a penalty like arrest or fine or whatever there is no incentive for anyone to do anything I ask. Sad fact of life but there it is. 

Ain’t that the truth!........not just in this current Coronavirus crisis, but generally.....the problem with our society currently is there is no capital or even corporal punishment...........the only way to maintain discipline is for the police to enforce the law, catch those who choose to transgress, and for the judiciary to have the power to apply a sentence that will make these people fear the price they will pay for their actions!

Society will always get a few who will choose to break the rules/law....but with poor enforcement and little fear........many more will be encouraged to take the chance!

That it seems, is where we are currently.

[figgy]

Police will be allover this, public image in the current crisis.  Government told them to and also collecting money from the public who stray out.  Right up the current police alley.

Crimes that need some real.policing and detective work, nope forget it. Can't be bothered with that. Crime pah no we don't solve that, just make a note somewhere and forget about it.

[GingerCat]

2 minutes ago, figgy said:

Police will be allover this, public image in the current crisis.  Government told them to and also collecting money from the public who stray out.  Right up the current police alley.

Crimes that need some real.policing and detective work, nope forget it. Can't be bothered with that. Crime pah no we don't solve that, just make a note somewhere and forget about it.

There we go, as if to prove my point. Everyone knows how to do it better. 

[figgy]

Please elaborate.

Are you telling me the police are great and solve all crimes. That they proscecute all the scumbags. We all know they don't but give them soft targets and they pounce, motorists etc.

I do agree that people out and about disregarding the lockdown need dealing with. As for people coughing and spitting on folk. Just shoot them, after a few have been shot others won't be so keen to threaten lives.

Edited March 29, 2020 by figgy

[GingerCat]

7 minutes ago, figgy said:

Please elaborate.

Your post was pure criticism of the police. The implication of that is that you know how to do it better. 

I'm all ears. 

[12gauge82]

Just now, GingerCat said:

Your post was pure criticism of the police. The implication of that is that you know how to do it better. 

I'm all ears. 

I think policing needs some common sense back in the system, cut the red tape, get rid of 90% of paper work, trust the individual officers more and allow them to use discretion, stop recruitment of officers who just tick certain boxes, stop using the police to solve non policing issue's, freeing up the officers to deal with actual crime would be a good start.

 

[figgy]

Even the police know how to do it better. They just either can't be bothered or are not allowed.

Policing if I'm correct in my thinking is upholding the laws of this country. Catching and processing the one ones who break them.

Or have I got it all wrong.  Like firefighters out fires out and try to prevent them.

Ambulance paramedics save lives.

All of the above might be all wrong but it is what I believe.

I have friends who are Cooper's, none of them are over the moon with the job. Pensions are about the only thing keeping them in.

[Danger-Mouse]

21 minutes ago, figgy said:

 

I have friends who are Cooper's, none of them are over the moon with the job. Pensions are about the only thing keeping them in.

The pension scheme has them over a barrel?

[GingerCat]

48 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think policing needs some common sense back in the system, cut the red tape, get rid of 90% of paper work, trust the individual officers more and allow them to use discretion, stop recruitment of officers who just tick certain boxes, stop using the police to solve non policing issue's, freeing up the officers to deal with actual crime would be a good start.

 

Now your just teasing me 

47 minutes ago, figgy said:

Even the police know how to do it better. They just either can't be bothered or are not allowed.

Policing if I'm correct in my thinking is upholding the laws of this country. Catching and processing the one ones who break them.

Or have I got it all wrong.  Like firefighters out fires out and try to prevent them.

Ambulance paramedics save lives.

All of the above might be all wrong but it is what I believe.

I have friends who are Cooper's, none of them are over the moon with the job. Pensions are about the only thing keeping them in.

Saving life and limb. Preventing crime. At the bottom is solving it. Always has been since Robert peel created it. That said it's not the police that are the issue. They can only work within the framework parliament provide. 

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Now your just teasing me 

Saving life and limb. Preventing crime. At the bottom is solving it. Always has been since Robert peel created it. That said it's not the police that are the issue. They can only work within the framework parliament provide. 

Or the local Commissioners whim? :-)

[GingerCat]

13 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Or the local Commissioners whim? 🙂

He has surprisingly little input. 

[Dave-G]

25 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

He has surprisingly little input. 

Dint know that thanks - who is it that decides the policies that different forces observe in regards to variable policies for shooting as an example? For arguments sake, lets go with conditioning HMR for fox - some do some don't.

[AVB]

28 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

He has surprisingly little input. 

Out of interest where is local policing policy set. Recently Cambridge was badly disrupted when Extinction Rebellion were allowed to blockade roads. Who said “ok lads don’t arrest them for obstruction let them get on with it”? Somebody must have done.  

[GingerCat]

25 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Dint know that thanks - who is it that decides the policies that different forces observe in regards to variable policies for shooting as an example? For arguments sake, lets go with conditioning HMR for fox - some do some don't.

The local department. 

23 minutes ago, AVB said:

Out of interest where is local policing policy set. Recently Cambridge was badly disrupted when Extinction Rebellion were allowed to blockade roads. Who said “ok lads don’t arrest them for obstruction let them get on with it”? Somebody must have done.  

Local commanders with consideration to resourcing. Ie if you don't have any cops you can't do very much. Surprisingly common issue these days  

[figgy]

Ginger Cat don't bite, were all bored and locked in with nothing much to do.

[panoma1]

The majority of criticism of the police from the public is I think, due to the fact they do not work to any compulsory national standards or agreed service levels....one police area doing one thing, another doing another!.....they should not be allowed (as they seem to be at present) to interpret the law or choose which laws to enforce and how and when to do so, to suit themselves (or their political masters) they should be required in law, to work to a compulsory national standard and work to an agreed service level.

Look at the mess they have created with firearm licensing! By demanding applicants do as they say.....rather than complying with National guidance!

[GingerCat]

40 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The majority of criticism of the police from the public is I think, due to the fact they do not work to any compulsory national standards or agreed service levels....one police area doing one thing, another doing another!.....they should not be allowed (as they seem to be at present) to interpret the law or choose which laws to enforce and how and when to do so, to suit themselves (or their political masters) they should be required in law, to work to a compulsory national standard and work to an agreed service level.

Look at the mess they have created with firearm licensing! By demanding applicants do as they say.....rather than complying with National guidance!

The problem with firearms licensing is the law is a mess. Police do work to national standards. Set by the college of policing and the charge decisions by and large rest with the cps. 

Firearms law is law. Guidance is there if you get stuck on the law and has no bearing on it whatsoever.  For example the law states the chief has to be satisfied. If he/she will only be satisfied with a medical cert then that's within the law . The medical carts were (in part at least) brought in by a now retired inspector who listened to someone boasting about shooting steel shot through geese at 90 metres. I tried to tell him otherwise but he was having none of it. Told the chief it was required for public safety, pointed out hgv drivers needed it and it was done. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by GingerCat