Semi automatic

[Thommo52]

Can you convert a FAC semi automatic shotgun to Shotgun licence? 

[ditchman]

if it is sent to a smith to be converted to 3 shot capacity...and then the plod are informed ...i see why not................as long as you dont take possession of it prior to going to the smith ?

[spurs 14]

Maybe check with your feo seem to recall seeing some where they can’t be re certified from sect one , im with Dutchman  cant see why not but I would check 

[ditchman]

at one time it was acceptable to put a nylon blanking plug in.........(and there are still alot of those auto's about).....tyhen the law changed and the magazine had to be crimped...

the nylon blanking plug/spacer can be removed in about a minit/....and then it will take a full load again............thats why the system changed to crimping the magazine...

 

quite honestly i wouldnt want a converted gun......as i wouldnt want a 410 smle conversion..........whatever floats yer boat i suppose

Edited March 27, 2020 by ditchman

[stuartyboy]

Would it need to be sent to the proof house after the work has been done to get certified?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, stuartyboy said:

Would it need to be sent to the proof house after the work has been done to get certified?

YES!

[Scully]

1 hour ago, stuartyboy said:

Would it need to be sent to the proof house after the work has been done to get certified?

I’m afraid so. Yet more expense. 

[guinty1]

See below from firearms( Amendment Act)  1988 Section 7

7Conversion not to affect classification.

(1)Any weapon which—

[F1(a)has at any time (whether before or after the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997) been a weapon of a kind described in section 5(1) or (1A) of the principal Act (including any amendments to section 5(1) made under section 1(4) of this Act);]

(b)is not a self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which has at any such time been such a weapon by reason only of having had a barrel less than 24 inches in length,

shall be treated as a prohibited weapon notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a weapon of a different kind.

(2)Any weapon which—

(a)has at any time since the coming into force of section 2 above been a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies; or

(b)would at any previous time have been such a weapon if those sections had then been in force,

shall, if it has, or at any time has had, a rifled barrel less than 24 inches in length, be treated as a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a shot gun or an air weapon.

(3)For the purposes of subsection (2) above there shall be disregarded the shortening of a barrel by a registered firearms dealer for the sole purpose of replacing part of it so as to produce a barrel not less than 24 inches in length.

[Scully]

I’m not sure what you’re referring to there ( barrel length?) but I don’t think it’s referring to conversion of S1 shotguns. 

[gotgcoalman]

My understanding was.

sec 2 to sec 1 = easy ,new tube fitted and paper work.

sec 1 back to to sec 2 = nigh on impossible.

 

 

 

[guinty1]

The clue is  in the title of the subsection "7 Conversion not to affect classification."

[Scully]

10 hours ago, guinty1 said:

The clue is  in the title of the subsection "7 Conversion not to affect classification."

Then I think you’ve maybe linked to a classification regarding barrel length? It is quite legal to convert a S1 shotgun to S2. 

[PPP]

12 hours ago, gotgcoalman said:

My understanding was.

sec 2 to sec 1 = easy ,new tube fitted and paper work.

sec 1 back to to sec 2 = nigh on impossible.

 

 

 

Sadly, this is what I was told when I thought of converting mine back.. it was originally 3shot and I had it converted and extended mag tube fitted, shouldn’t have bothered!

Edited March 28, 2020 by PPP

[mossy835]

i  think i saw at one time once fac, all ways fac.

[Scully]

I’m not really sure why anyone would think that; don’t most brand new semi autos enter this country as S1? 
There is nothing illegal about converting a S1 to S2, or indeed vice versa. The only snag is that both incur a cost. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Scully

[enfieldspares]

No some are reading the law wrongly. The s7(2) was to apply to self-loading rifles and/or Bren Guns and the like that were being smoothbored so as to make them shotguns under the law.

This: If it has, or at any time has had, a rifled barrel less than 24 inches in length

It was not intended to, and did and does not apply to "true" self-loading or pump action shot guns that (were and would have been before Thatcher's 1988 Act - which this is) possessed as s2 shotguns.

Edited March 28, 2020 by enfieldspares

[impala59]

Have done many,

Measure the tube (from cartridge stop within receiver) for 2 cartridges of guns max proofed length (2.3/4", 3", 3.1/2") + length of follower + 1/4" . Crimp with Rounded Edge tube crimper, do not attempt to use tube cutter!  It only needs to be crimped sufficiently to stop the follower falling out, don't go too deep. Make sure that the follower is captive within the tube on the cartridge side of the new crimp. Send or take to proof house or RFD who will do same, Wait a while, receive S2 shotgun and certificate of restriction, put on shotgun licence.

Its no big deal, easy money for the proof house and if the crimp is not too deep, it can be drifted out to return to S1 and relicenced

The 24" minimum barrel length applies to S1 and S2, the exception being double or single shots with short barrels which are S2 by capacity but are allowed as S1 with short barrels as Coach guns

Edited March 28, 2020 by impala59

[enfieldspares]

Correct. As per immediately above.

[Harry136]

Im not sure that the mag tube being crimped is a legal requirement, but legally it has to have some mechanism to prevent the mag tube holding more than 2 standaard length cartridges. All Browning Maxus shotguns come with a mag plug and not a crimped mag, my Benelli M2 also did not have a crimped mag, but was Sec 2.

[impala59]

The definition is permanently restricted to 3 rounds with a permanently fixed magazine (tube). A removable plug is just that, removable, There are many around the country, I have bought some and crimped to comply immediately. They are by definition S1 and should an investigation by the plod take place for some reason, the owner would be found to be committing a serious firearms offence.

(ignorance of the law is no excuse, Buying in good faith, I doubt would be mitigating circumstances, it would probably also land the seller in dock too, I am sure a prosecution would be sought by the police and CPS)

Edited March 28, 2020 by impala59

[mossy835]

so why are not crimped to start with to make them legal.

[enfieldspares]

If the gun is built from the outset as a two shot or with a total capacity of two shots (such as the Browning Twelvette or the Ithaca Mag-10) then it does not require either crimp or any UK Proof House restricted magazone mark or certification. Some guns built for primarily the US duck shooting market were built as two shot magazines from the get go even as far back as the Ithaca Mag-10.

[impala59]

I would ask any seller, RFD or private that question and personally I now will not purchase unless I check for myself that the gun is legal, visible mechanical work( crimp, brazing or similar to the tube locating point) and proof house stamp with paperwork if still extant (many get lost) New guns should be checked before sale by the importer/retailer, it’s the law.

I once bought a pump from a dealer as a repair project, it was stamped as S2 proof. When I got it home I realised that the reason it did not cycle was that the magazine tube was in backwards and not fixed permanently. I reversed it with the intention of loctiting it in place but realised that the crimp was now further from the receiver and it could take 3 rounds. I phoned the dealer and he said to return it immediately for a full refund, and he paid my costs too. He had effectively sold me an S1 on an S2 licence 

Edited March 28, 2020 by impala59

[Scully]

2 hours ago, mossy835 said:

so why are not crimped to start with to make them legal.

As far as I understand it, Those built with a magazine capacity of more than two, ARE legal in their country of origin; for example Remington, Winchester etc often leave their factory with a five shot magazine capability. Those which are exported to the UK, are then either left entire and sold as S1, or crimped to make them legal as S2 shotguns. They are then proofed in accordance with UK legislation before shipment to UK dealers. 
 

[impala59]

For what it’s worth, and while many of us are stuck at home, how about taking out any duck plugs or capacity restricters and seeing how many you can get in the tube. (Dummies not live please!) If it’s more than 2 then call your FEO and ask his opinion 

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

As far as I understand it, Those built with a magazine capacity of more than two, ARE legal in their country of origin; for example Remington, Winchester etc often leave their factory with a five shot magazine capability. Those which are exported to the UK, are then either left entire and sold as S1, or crimped to make them legal as S2 shotguns. They are then proofed in accordance with UK legislation before shipment to UK dealers. 
 

This..........

with the hope that the importer, wholesaler and dealer do their job properly. 

Remember there is a cost to this that eats into their margin