BASC update

[Bobba]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

For some on here basc is just a punch bag. They cant do anything right. Get positive media to joe public on the 12th and get a mouthful, yet if they'd done nothing they'd get the same.... 

Agreed

[scotslad]

Tobe fair shooting egg I long thought that about basc until I realised they really are useless.

It will take a lot more than a few adverts to think ur getting 8 million quid worth off money.

Don't think I'll ever rejoin basc after there complete betrayal over lead, no science no change?? And not just that but to do it the way they did lying about consulting the ammo manufacturers. Wot the hell were they thinking.

Did they not think any ammo companies would say anything???

To me that just shows the arragence and stupidity off who every making decisions.

No consultation with members, ammo makers even lying to fellow orgs who signed letter.

That 1 letter will have done more harm to shooting than anti's ever did, and now shooters not joining other orgs as they were conned into signing that letter

 

 

If they had these adverts going 10 or 20 years ago we would not be in the mess we are now.

Really not rocket science. Various moorland groups have been funding clips for years now.

Some very good 1s out there

 

They also need to complain about every false story and really threaten court action

 

To be fair it does look good, they must off finally found the ON switch at the media centre, better late than never.

Only took them 20 odd years and how many million? And so many extra staff they can no longer afford legal cover at 5 quid a skull

That should be the norm not the complete surprise pat on backs

[dodgy dave]

20 minutes ago, scotslad said:

Tobe fair shooting egg I long thought that about basc until I realised they really are useless.

It will take a lot more than a few adverts to think ur getting 8 million quid worth off money.

Don't think I'll ever rejoin basc after there complete betrayal over lead, no science no change?? And not just that but to do it the way they did lying about consulting the ammo manufacturers. Wot the hell were they thinking.

Did they not think any ammo companies would say anything???

To me that just shows the arragence and stupidity off who every making decisions.

No consultation with members, ammo makers even lying to fellow orgs who signed letter.

That 1 letter will have done more harm to shooting than anti's ever did, and now shooters not joining other orgs as they were conned into signing that letter

 

 

If they had these adverts going 10 or 20 years ago we would not be in the mess we are now.

Really not rocket science. Various moorland groups have been funding clips for years now.

Some very good 1s out there

 

They also need to complain about every false story and really threaten court action

 

To be fair it does look good, they must off finally found the ON switch at the media centre, better late than never.

Only took them 20 odd years and how many million? And so many extra staff they can no longer afford legal cover at 5 quid a skull

That should be the norm not the complete surprise pat on backs

and thats the truth its not basc bashing

[scotslad]

32 minutes ago, dodgy dave said:

and thats the truth its not basc bashing

 

Hopefully it's see that way.

I used to really stick up for basc but over the past 5 to 10 years it's been more making excuses for them.

 

I truely hope basc have turned a corner and are going to come out fighting not just in press/media but against police/licencing issues as the new medical letters is a joke.

If they looked after there members in Scotland when polis Scotland 1st started it and threatened them with court.

They have folded as they are completely skint, now loads have forces have adopted it, it's gone to far to really fight cheaply.

 

Basc and others need to start nipping stuff in bud not letting it grow into a massive problem. 

How many years have false stories been coming out on the 12th about reared/released grouse?? Which off course u can't

The other thing basc and others should be doing (possibly in that pressrelease somewhere in missed?) 

Is they know they're will be dead BoP stories appearing around the 12th no matter when it allegedly died.

Have ur facts and figures ready about the number of raptors successfully breeding on keepers estates, esp HH on moors as keepering makes a massive difference to breeding success compared to nature reserves

Get ur good news story out 1st.

I think the NGO and moorland Assoc tend to do this thou on a smaller scale.

The problem all our orgs have is preaching to the converted on forums like this and there mags, and there stories don't sell papers make headlines the way 'toffs shooting *""""*' does.

Mibbee the way forward is paying for more adds like this, full page eye catching

 

While I'm on my soap box they should be highlighting the damage some raptor monitors are causing by disturbance and extending abandoned.

An article in recent SGA mag 14 HH nests ona Scottish island all failed following year all fledged chicks, difference was there monitor hurt his leg so couldn't 'look' after nests. 

That should be brought to general public as it's shocking

 

 

 

 

 

[dodgy dave]

i wonder what other things basc has stopped doing for us,  like the insurance, i used to ring and release mallard if one was shot the person who shot it would report the ring no, to basc and they would tell them where it was released they stopped all that  i wonder what else they are chipping away at.  again this is not basc bashing its telling the truth 

[mudpatten]

"BASC lied about consultation with ammunition manufactureres".

Are we quite sure about that? One of the more vociferous prime movers in the cartridge makers falling out with BASC stated that it wouldn`t be able to manufacture the cartridges that BASC, and lets not forget, all the other shooting organisations, hoped they would inside a timeframe that the cartridge makers alleged ran into years.

Less than six weeks later that same cartridge maker came out with a complete range of the cartridges it had just said that it couldn`t make for years. All the specialist components were developed. All the complex ballistic research and developement had been done, all the production facilities prepped and cartridge components stockpiled.

It`s just possible that BASC were not lying. Perhaps someone else was being economical with the truth.

I thoroughly agree that BASC frequently deserves a good kicking.

This is not blindly defending BASC, this is telling the truth.

 

[enfieldspares]

9 hours ago, dodgy dave said:

and thats the truth its not basc bashing

Yes. I will NOT be renewing with SACS for the sole reason that they signed the BASC lead shot letter and will delight in telling them so. 

[Terry2016]

1 hour ago, mudpatten said:

"BASC lied about consultation with ammunition manufactureres".

Are we quite sure about that? One of the more vociferous prime movers in the cartridge makers falling out with BASC stated that it wouldn`t be able to manufacture the cartridges that BASC, and lets not forget, all the other shooting organisations, hoped they would inside a timeframe that the cartridge makers alleged ran into years.

Less than six weeks later that same cartridge maker came out with a complete range of the cartridges it had just said that it couldn`t make for years. All the specialist components were developed. All the complex ballistic research and developement had been done, all the production facilities prepped and cartridge components stockpiled.

It`s just possible that BASC were not lying. Perhaps someone else was being economical with the truth.

I thoroughly agree that BASC frequently deserves a good kicking.

This is not blindly defending BASC, this is telling the truth.

 

Not to mention that very same manufacturer released the announcement a week early .... how can you do that if you are not aware? 

I understand the GTA wee also involved in the transition ? they represent all cartridge manufacturers do they not ?

BASC have not always got it right. But to be honest i think they are definitely head and shoulders above the rest in promoting and protecting shooting. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Terry2016

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Terry2016 said:

I understand the GTA wee also involved in the transition ? they represent all cartridge manufacturers do they not ?

That's like saying BASC represent all shooters 

[enfieldspares]

3 hours ago, mudpatten said:

"BASC lied about consultation with ammunition manufactureres".

 

I know absolutely 100% that BASC did not consult, certainly, with the directors of two cartridge makers that I spoke to directly a week or so after the BASC announcement (having dealt with the same people at both whilst an RFD back in the 1980s and 1990s) I have not any doubt in the truth of what they both said that they had not been contacted in any way.

[Terry2016]

19 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

That's like saying BASC represent all shooters 

is it? i thought they represented them? 

 

[scotslad]

4 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Yes. I will NOT be renewing with SACS for the sole reason that they signed the BASC lead shot letter and will delight in telling them so. 

 

Must admit not a fan of sacs, even living in Scotland and have no idea why anyone in england would join.

But I wouldn't be too hard on them he pretty much came out and said basc lied to him about the involvement of gun/ammo trade.

Probably he should off checked, but don't really think sacs has any clout, nfluence or contacts so really just someone in his spare room making the right noises 

 

If that letter stops folk from joining any org it really has done a lot off harm.

By all means leave basc but I think NGO and CA both do decent work down eng for similar money 35 to 40 quid as does SGA in scotland.

If everyone just purely joins commercial insurance it will be a very sad day and a small victory for anti's, still 35 odd quid but absolutely no voice and just lining someone's back pocket

[enfieldspares]

1 minute ago, scotslad said:

Probably he should off checked...

This, above, I don't give second chances on what is a failure to "look before you leap". And indeed I told SACS so in my telephone call. I was able to telephone two of cartridge loaders here in the UK and it direct from them that they'd had no approach from BASC so I have no mercy at all in the matter. They failed because they couldn't pick up a telephone but accepted this major statement on a change of position on lead shot without that simple single check. That is inexcusable.

[scotslad]

Aye but u probably have more connections than sacs does, that's the problem I have with them.

 

Best join SGA then about only org that didn't sign-up, fight very hard in Scotland and are clued up, but peeing into the wind at holyrood with SNP/greens.

And again no voice down ur neck of woods, but then again no voice if private commercial insurance either.

I'm sure SGA would appreciate the membership, work very hard but most are still FT keepers don't have the staff like basc

[dodgy dave]

12 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

is it? i thought they represented them? 

 

everything basc does concerns all shooters 

[strimmer_13]

2 hours ago, dodgy dave said:

everything basc does concerns all shooters 

Yes not just the few

[Newbie to this]

21 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

is it? i thought they represented them? 

 

Do they represent them? Or are they just members? Are all the cartridge manufacturers members? Do the GTA views match all the cartridge manufacturers views?

Does BASC represent ALL shooters? Do they have ALL shooters interests at heart? Did they consult the cartridge manufacturers?

The questions go on!

[mudpatten]

Enfieldspares, can I enquire if the two cartridge manufacturers whom you know categorically not to have had any contact from BASC over the lead issue, have subsequently brought out cartridges that fit the description of those that the cartridge trade said it could not make for some years to come?

 

[ShootingEgg]

6 hours ago, mudpatten said:

Enfieldspares, can I enquire if the two cartridge manufacturers whom you know categorically not to have had any contact from BASC over the lead issue, have subsequently brought out cartridges that fit the description of those that the cartridge trade said it could not make for some years to come?

 

I think all manufacturers knew and had designs ready... But this is bash basc, not the cart manufactures remember 😉

[Terry2016]

On 17/08/2020 at 19:54, Newbie to this said:

Do they represent them? Or are they just members? Are all the cartridge manufacturers members? Do the GTA views match all the cartridge manufacturers views?

Does BASC represent ALL shooters? Do they have ALL shooters interests at heart? Did they consult the cartridge manufacturers?

The questions go on!

i thought you knew the answer... given your comment on my post? and you have responded with more questions. so you do not know. 

if you are a member of an organisation like the gun trade then yes they represent you. 

if you are not a member of basc then the issue around the lead transition will still effect your as it is a voluntary transition from all major shooting organisations, clearly they could all see the writing on the wall ..

and yes that will effect us all if you are a member or not...

 

21 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

I think all manufacturers knew and had designs ready... But this is bash basc, not the cart manufactures remember 😉

its interesting how quick they all have them 😱

Eley 

gamebore

Lyvale 

Hull in the process i believe...

as well as 

Jocker

Bio

RIo

in 6 months..... 

i think your words are pretty spot on ....

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

I thought you knew the answer... given your comment on my post? and you have responded with more questions. so you do not know. 

if you are a member of an organisation like the gun trade then yes they represent you. 

You say, if you are a member of an organisation like the GTA, then they represent you, I say how can they represent you if they (like BASC), don't bother to consult with the membership to find out what their views are. That's not representation, that's 'we know what's best!'

Now I don't know if that is what the GTA did, but then I wasn't suggesting that the GTA talk for all the cartridge manufacturers.

But that is exactly what BASC did!

So again

On 17/08/2020 at 19:54, Newbie to this said:

Do they represent them? Or are they just members? Are all the cartridge manufacturers members? Do the GTA views match all the cartridge manufacturers views?

Does BASC represent ALL shooters? Do they have ALL shooters interests at heart? Did they consult the cartridge manufacturers? Did they consult their membership?

The questions go on!

Someone lied. Who that was, we will never know.

But trying to say that the GTA was consulted, so by association so were the cartridge manufacturers, is nothing more than a cop-out.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Newbie to this

[dodgy dave]

On 16/08/2020 at 08:58, Bobba said:

Agreed

yes they cant do anything right

 

On 16/08/2020 at 08:58, Bobba said:

Agreed

 

[Terry2016]

23 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

You say, if you are a member of an organisation like the GTA, then they represent you, I say how can they represent you if they (like BASC), don't bother to consult with the membership to find out what their views are. That's not representation, that's 'we know what's best!'

Now I don't know if that is what the GTA did, but then I wasn't suggesting that the GTA talk for all the cartridge manufacturers.

But that is exactly what BASC did!

So again

Someone lied. Who that was, we will never know.

But trying to say that the GTA was consulted, so by association so were the cartridge manufacturers, is nothing more than a cop-out.

No, not a cop out at all my point is that do these manufacturers not pay to be a member of the GTA so they can be represented? 

if they did not feel they were represented with their best interests at heart surly they wouldn't be a member ?

if you belong to an organisation they will not consult you on every decision they make,. that kind of thinking stops anything happening 

My point tis that GTA must have thought it was sensible and as i understand it share information with the cartridge manufacturers, ( who on another point i don't think should be consulted they are just a supplier ) they tail does not wag the dog ....