Grouse shooting article in the Sun

[McSpredder]

16 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

The sun will post what they want..always have no one takes it seriously . 

On the contrary, I suspect a great many do take it seriously.   Circulation of The Sun is about 1.5 million per day, and folk wouldn’t buy it if they considered the content was rubbish.   For that reason, I was very pleased to see some response from shooting organisations.

16 hours ago, David BASC said:

As for getting the facts across, look at the other link on the adverts and editorials we delivered across loads of local and regional papers last week...

Unfortunately, your first link gave no facts to counter what McCubbin and Liddle had been saying.   The second link only told me that there were adverts in certain newspapers, but not the ones on sale in this locality.

Many folk don’t have time to click on every link.   Better to give every viewer a few facts in headline form, and then some of them might decide to read further on the subject.   There are still parts of the country with very slow broadband (our village has download speed 0.3Mb/s on a good day), and web links can take a long time to display.

Providing a lot of web links is like issuing a reading list -- a good way of forcing students to go away and find things out for themselves, but perhaps not a very effective method for getting simple messages across to large numbers of people.

[clangerman]

4 hours ago, White Rabbit said:

There is a poster on this forum who quite clearly doesn't understand what we do as a fieldsports fraternity and takes every opportunity to stir up division amongst us. 

Constant digs, constant negativity. His hatred of anyone with more money than him shines through. The poor lad can't even afford full stops!

No doubt he will be seething at this as well and bang out another incoherent response to keep the venom going.

Are trolls allowed on this board?

WR.

if you are referring to me sir i am no lad as for my full stops in posts education came second to feeding a father with cancer as for jealousy i am friends with some obscenely wealthy people one of whom owns a large game shoot who i’m sure appreciates my FREE assistance and help you do NOT run this forum my opinion may not be popular with some but those who ARE in charge do me the courtesy of allowing me to express it and i thank them the watch is one of the few forums not run as a police state so rather than try and use it to silence opinion YOU don’t like which is extremely bad form complain to those who give no thought to how their actions will portray shooters to the public and bring the press on our backs 

[ShootingEgg]

On 13/08/2020 at 17:28, B725 said:

Slow, heavy birds. Not very bright. Hard to miss them from eight yards with a 12-bore, even if you’re a halfwit.

Christ someone doesn't know how a shotgun works, pattern would have the bird prepped ready for the oven.... maybe the writer is the halfwit. 

[B725]

I have no problems with people not liking shooting as they are entitled to their own opinion but the article is total fabrication and he is too fat and lazy to find out what really goes on, I also think that the paper should be professional enough to ensure it was correct.

[ShootingEgg]

18 hours ago, White Rabbit said:

The attitudes of some on this forum are quite frankly pathetic. 

I, and thousands of others, are employed by "hooray Henrys". That's how the world works. Get over it.

Our last two days have been fogged off (the boss doesn't insure). During that time I've paid out £4600 in wages to beaters, flankers and pickers up to basically sit in a car park til midday. Money straight in to the local rural economy. £2300 a day. Not to mention hotels etc... multiply that by 28 days on average.

Some people need to wake up and look at the bigger picture.

WR.

Well said.

Just because some on here cant afford it, it doesn't mean people who can are toffs. I think most if they wanted to do this then they could save and have a day in the butts. Just because you choose not to, dont hate shooters who can and do shoot on the moors. Infact its more than likely shooters who hate that will be the downfall. Not basc gwct ngo etc. Its petty infighting that will ruin shooting in the UK. 

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, B725 said:

I also think that the paper should be professional enough to ensure it was correct.

The Sun is about selling copies - Rupert Murdoch style.  Being correct doesn't sell copies, but made up fantasy - especially where it involves fluffy animals, mocking/attacking 'the rich', cruelty allegations - does - and the high circulation of the Sun confirms Murdoch's successful editorial model.  He's about making money, getting his preferred party voted in and not in the slightest about publishing truthful news.  (remember "Freddy Starr ate my hamster"!)

[B725]

I have had a reply from the Sun newspaper today

Thank you for your email.

 

The column in question was Rod Liddle's opinion, and was clearly distinguished as such. Rod is entitled to disagree with grouse shooting, and to express his disagreement in a robust way. Equally, I respect the fact that you hold a different view to him.

 

Kind regards,

Robyn

 

Robyn Kelly

Associate Managing Editor

The Sun

0207 782 6834

[ShootingEgg]

10 hours ago, B725 said:

I have had a reply from the Sun newspaper today

Thank you for your email.

 

The column in question was Rod Liddle's opinion, and was clearly distinguished as such. Rod is entitled to disagree with grouse shooting, and to express his disagreement in a robust way. Equally, I respect the fact that you hold a different view to him.

 

Kind regards,

Robyn

 

Robyn Kelly

Associate Managing Editor

The Sun

0207 782 6834

Pretty much the expected answer. They just state it is his opinion.

Wonder if you wrote back with your opinions but them being fact based and asked them to include it in the paper would they oblige? 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, B725 said:

I have had a reply from the Sun newspaper today

Thank you for your email.

 

The column in question was Rod Liddle's opinion, and was clearly distinguished as such. Rod is entitled to disagree with grouse shooting, and to express his disagreement in a robust way. Equally, I respect the fact that you hold a different view to him.

 

Kind regards,

Robyn

 

Robyn Kelly

Associate Managing Editor

The Sun

0207 782 6834

Well done for making the effort.

Expressing an opinion is fine but it’s basis has to be based on facts, otherwise it’s just biased ramblings. 

[JohnfromUK]

18 minutes ago, Scully said:

otherwise it’s just biased ramblings.

..... which is exactly what much of what is printed in the press is.  Liddle - if you 'google' him - has a very chequered history.

[Terry2016]

On 15/08/2020 at 09:37, McSpredder said:

On the contrary, I suspect a great many do take it seriously.   Circulation of The Sun is about 1.5 million per day, and folk wouldn’t buy it if they considered the content was rubbish.   For that reason, I was very pleased to see some response from shooting organisations.

Unfortunately, your first link gave no facts to counter what McCubbin and Liddle had been saying.   The second link only told me that there were adverts in certain newspapers, but not the ones on sale in this locality.

Many folk don’t have time to click on every link.   Better to give every viewer a few facts in headline form, and then some of them might decide to read further on the subject.   There are still parts of the country with very slow broadband (our village has download speed 0.3Mb/s on a good day), and web links can take a long time to display.

Providing a lot of web links is like issuing a reading list -- a good way of forcing students to go away and find things out for themselves, but perhaps not a very effective method for getting simple messages across to large numbers of people.

The Sun is known for its poor coverage of any subject. its is a paper that is considered laughable by the majority i would say. 

I agree that where ever inaccuracies about shooting are published the shooting organisations should challenge this and if able get a factual statement published. 

I am please that BASC have done this.... i don't see any of the other organisations doing it though ... 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

i don't see any of the other organisations doing it though ...

I believe this (that is what I was sent it as anyway) was the Game Conservancy's response;

"Sir,

I do wonder the last time Mr Liddle visited the grouse moors he rages against (Moor or Less A Desert, 13 August). It certainly wasn’t in the spring, or he would have known that by law burning ends in April - before the breeding season, rather than during it as he claims. Liddle’s fervent criticism of Britain’s grouse moors not only flies in the face of fact, it demeans the hard-working men and women managing some of Britain’s most precious habitat.

Liddle claims that ‘these moorlands are almost entirely devoid of wildlife’, when in truth breeding birds such as lapwing and curlew have thrived on grouse moors as a result of the management practices he criticises. Research has also shown mountain hares to be 35 times more abundant on moors managed for driven grouse.

He talks of 8% of land as if it were a bad thing, yet we are very lucky to have the majority of the world’s heather moorland – an internationally recognised important habitat. The public can enjoy these beautiful landscapes all year round thanks to private land managers investing huge amounts of their own time and resources to look after them.

Last week, Liddle used his Spectator column to state that ‘we are living in a post-truth society’. Those moorland conservationists, busy working for wildlife across the moors of Britain, will read Liddle’s bizarre claims and agree. If he’d be willing to discuss his assertions with those working every day come rain or shine, planting trees, clearing bracken, repairing stone walls and preventing wildfires, we are happy to put him in touch. In the meantime, the GWCT will continue to challenge misinformation in the media.

We have sent Mr Liddle a copy of Moorland Conservationists, in the hope he will appreciate the contribution of good moorland management."

 

[Scully]

That’s more like it. 👍

[Terry2016]

On 19/08/2020 at 18:58, JohnfromUK said:

I believe this (that is what I was sent it as anyway) was the Game Conservancy's response;

"Sir,

I do wonder the last time Mr Liddle visited the grouse moors he rages against (Moor or Less A Desert, 13 August). It certainly wasn’t in the spring, or he would have known that by law burning ends in April - before the breeding season, rather than during it as he claims. Liddle’s fervent criticism of Britain’s grouse moors not only flies in the face of fact, it demeans the hard-working men and women managing some of Britain’s most precious habitat.

Liddle claims that ‘these moorlands are almost entirely devoid of wildlife’, when in truth breeding birds such as lapwing and curlew have thrived on grouse moors as a result of the management practices he criticises. Research has also shown mountain hares to be 35 times more abundant on moors managed for driven grouse.

He talks of 8% of land as if it were a bad thing, yet we are very lucky to have the majority of the world’s heather moorland – an internationally recognised important habitat. The public can enjoy these beautiful landscapes all year round thanks to private land managers investing huge amounts of their own time and resources to look after them.

Last week, Liddle used his Spectator column to state that ‘we are living in a post-truth society’. Those moorland conservationists, busy working for wildlife across the moors of Britain, will read Liddle’s bizarre claims and agree. If he’d be willing to discuss his assertions with those working every day come rain or shine, planting trees, clearing bracken, repairing stone walls and preventing wildfires, we are happy to put him in touch. In the meantime, the GWCT will continue to challenge misinformation in the media.

We have sent Mr Liddle a copy of Moorland Conservationists, in the hope he will appreciate the contribution of good moorland management."

 

Another great response well done the GWCT, thank you for sharing can you let me know how you received this? I am a member fo the GWCT also.

now where is the NGO and the CA, SACS & the SGA all organisations should be responding to these. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

can you let me know how you received this?

Yes, it was posted by a friend of mine (who is in the gun trade) via Facebook.  Posted about 2 or 3 days ago.

[Terry2016]

41 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Yes, it was posted by a friend of mine (who is in the gun trade) via Facebook.  Posted about 2 or 3 days ago.

Thank you, Much appreciated .

 

[Saltings]

despite the pen being métier than the sword  and all the jibber jabber  from the ones that dont do         from those that do        how  are the moors looking    are birds     healthy     and  breeding  well      dew to idiots being on lockdown without their dogs running wild as their right to do so   on the hill    ie right to roam  i can go where i like types              are ptarmigan and grouse numbers looking good for the future  given weather etc                i wont ask about  black cock  as voluntary ban i know the answer     nout in it     nout spent on habitat      nout left on the estate   where i went app 24 brace shot 25yrs ago    within five yrs no black cock on the estate          the voluntary ban  killed more  black cock than  shooting  inc the surrounding estates      nout blackcock breeding 

[Saltings]

On 14/08/2020 at 16:29, David BASC said:

It really is a sad day when people on a shooting forum start attacking other shooters just because others have a bit more money then they do...as I say you miss the bigger picture about the wider environmental and economic benefits of grouse shooting or for that matter pheasant and partridge shooting too.

Where do you think the gamekeepers,  beaters and pickers up come from? Do you think they bus up from London on an all expense paid for coach, stay in 5 star hotels, get driven to the shoot in Range Rovers and eat caviar for their elevenses? Or perhaps you don't know that these local men and women from backgrounds not too far away from yours and mine look forward to the grouse, partridge and pheasant season too?

To then try and degrade my comments by saying I am 'crying' is simply  crass and puerile.

BASC represents the interests of all shooters, regardless of whether you spend £thousands a year or get all your shooting for free

As for getting the facts across, look at the other link on the adverts and editorials we delivered across loads of local and regional papers last week...

david    i have shot just about every legal quarry and vermin in the uk and Ireland with shotgun or rifle and none of it was free     (paid  financially on game or help me out with harvest etc  on vermin ) shooting down to earth folks are not freeloaders they pay their way and enjoy the day  othe more affluent types  expect a days sport with a lucrative kickback   guys who work for a living do not fit in this bracket and never will  they pay their way    and owe no-one      i and have been a member of BASC for probably the last 35 years  or more without question my main passion is wildfowling on the foreshore       given whats gone on recently  re lead ban  no ban  phase lead out  wild justice attack's etc     and no positive events  like  jack Charlton  clarkias and the country man   or similar  julia bradbury i should think would be more than happy to do a documentry on your behalf not to mention chefs cook wild foods and how to source a brace of phesants for 25p and prep rather than a scabby chicken for a fiver  in Tesco   informing the un educataded about wild meats /foods and fruits   come from    local markets    not     asda and tesco        educating the un educated towards free range wild foods of all sorts  as now cheaper than intensive farmed junk food chicken from overseas        whats to loose a good chef on board   game meats/  hedge foraging /  marsh   samphire /  allotment produce etc   cheap  grub     EDUCATE  who dont know game meat of all types is healthy and cheap      a days beating money in their pocket  a meal and phesants going home  not to mention fresh air and a different view of the countryside  respect it and take their rubbish's home           i have already paid this years subscription        sadly next year will be a tough one to justify  a basc subscription costs  for me and my family  as i pay  given lack of performance over the last few years      is it pithagruses therem  keep doing the same thing and expect the result to change       its time to vote with my feet  convince me and other family and  friends  to stay            your move    actions speak louder than  words  ( i struggle with reading and righting   4hrs in checking im right or wrong  spelling etc)      your turn convince me to hand over my hard earned £    no  BS   speak  please          your turn       what is basc going to to do for the every day countryman shooter / pot hunter / food on the table guy  / supplement food guy /   wildfowler   type  / vermin  hunter /            your 10p worth is  needed          why do we pay subs to pay wages to sell us out      my 10p      your answer  will mean next year or leave      PLEASE NO BS   im on the edge 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Saltings

[David BASC]

No BS, just take a look on the BASC website to see wat we are doing. 

Listen to the blogs

Check out the weekly email newsletters, and if you are not getting one, please make sure we have your current email address

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

14 hours ago, Saltings said:

david    i have shot just about every legal quarry and vermin in the uk and Ireland with shotgun or rifle and none of it was free     (paid  financially on game or help me out with harvest etc  on vermin ) shooting down to earth folks are not freeloaders they pay their way and enjoy the day  othe more affluent types  expect a days sport with a lucrative kickback   guys who work for a living do not fit in this bracket and never will  they pay their way    and owe no-one      i and have been a member of BASC for probably the last 35 years  or more without question my main passion is wildfowling on the foreshore       given whats gone on recently  re lead ban  no ban  phase lead out  wild justice attack's etc     and no positive events  like  jack Charlton  clarkias and the country man   or similar  julia bradbury i should think would be more than happy to do a documentry on your behalf not to mention chefs cook wild foods and how to source a brace of phesants for 25p and prep rather than a scabby chicken for a fiver  in Tesco   informing the un educataded about wild meats /foods and fruits   come from    local markets    not     asda and tesco        educating the un educated towards free range wild foods of all sorts  as now cheaper than intensive farmed junk food chicken from overseas        whats to loose a good chef on board   game meats/  hedge foraging /  marsh   samphire /  allotment produce etc   cheap  grub     EDUCATE  who dont know game meat of all types is healthy and cheap      a days beating money in their pocket  a meal and phesants going home  not to mention fresh air and a different view of the countryside  respect it and take their rubbish's home           i have already paid this years subscription        sadly next year will be a tough one to justify  a basc subscription costs  for me and my family  as i pay  given lack of performance over the last few years      is it pithagruses therem  keep doing the same thing and expect the result to change       its time to vote with my feet  convince me and other family and  friends  to stay            your move    actions speak louder than  words  ( i struggle with reading and righting   4hrs in checking im right or wrong  spelling etc)      your turn convince me to hand over my hard earned £    no  BS   speak  please          your turn       what is basc going to to do for the every day countryman shooter / pot hunter / food on the table guy  / supplement food guy /   wildfowler   type  / vermin  hunter /            your 10p worth is  needed          why do we pay subs to pay wages to sell us out      my 10p      your answer  will mean next year or leave      PLEASE NO BS   im on the edge 

Good evening Saltings. BASC is fighting multiple battles for country sports and pest control and I would very much appreciate a discussion with you over the phone and listening to your views if you are interested - I deal with various policy issues at BASC and been involved with hunting and conservation in Ireland and mainland Europe for many years before that. Message me or email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk if of interest. Best wishes Conor

[Saltings]

On 04/09/2020 at 19:10, Conor O'Gorman said:

Good evening Saltings. BASC is fighting multiple battles for country sports and pest control and I would very much appreciate a discussion with you over the phone and listening to your views if you are interested - I deal with various policy issues at BASC and been involved with hunting and conservation in Ireland and mainland Europe for many years before that. Message me or email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk if of interest. Best wishes Conor

pm sent

[Saltings]

will sign up for the newsletter

Edited September 13, 2020 by Saltings

[Vince Green]

Because I am Jewish (well, just about! I don't really consider myself to be but my grand parents were) i belong on a couple of Jewish websites that monitor anti Jewish press attention.

Every now and then you get a message that says yesterday, this person said this this and this. mostly about Israel of which I am not the greatest fan anyway. This is the link complain now.

And hundreds, thousands or people who never even listened to the programme bang in a complaint to the press complaints  people. But the thing is it has its effect. After a  while the editors get tired of having to reply in writing to all these complaints and think *** don't go there again its not worth the hassle

We really need to get our selves that well organised that we can hit back with not hundreds but thousands of complaints every time some richard head like James O'Brian maligns us on air we can hit back from a position of power  

[Saltings]

On 15/09/2020 at 22:17, Vince Green said:

Because I am Jewish (well, just about! I don't really consider myself to be but my grand parents were) i belong on a couple of Jewish websites that monitor anti Jewish press attention.

Every now and then you get a message that says yesterday, this person said this this and this. mostly about Israel of which I am not the greatest fan anyway. This is the link complain now.

And hundreds, thousands or people who never even listened to the programme bang in a complaint to the press complaints  people. But the thing is it has its effect. After a  while the editors get tired of having to reply in writing to all these complaints and think *** don't go there again its not worth the hassle

We really need to get our selves that well organised that we can hit back with not hundreds but thousands of complaints every time some richard head like James O'Brian maligns us on air we can hit back from a position of power  

any body who lives off the land and understands where their food comes from        not tescos     has my vote     my daughters friend is Iranian    (stunning girl with manners  )    multiple brace of pheasant and some ducks   go to her family  and sometimes wild boar meat comes back     ( beautiful meat ) photos of her brothers on a hunt etc in a different land also stunning           antis are the same all over the world their view is the only     view     sadly  social media was originally to connect with lost friends     but now a world of hate  and more hatred    if everyone stops eating all meats inc fish will they be happy      as the cost of vegie taste like bacon costs double  i despair  global warming crisis      6 months of lockdown throughout the world air quality in city's has improved and nothing else               fires / storms  hurricanes   flooding not seen since 1972   so its happened before so its a repeating cycle app 25 /30 yrs as history says nothing new before google  maybe its time to read a book  before    www.