why has centrefire ammo gone up so much uk

[Guest cookoff013]

2 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

I just wondered if it a genuine concern or people just getting wrapped in something over nothing like all the fools buying up the toilet roll over here earlier in the year. 

that toilet roll fiasco was just sheer "panic" buying. the supply chain was there, its just everyones home stocks were increased. thats everyones. i hope everyone uses TP in a safe manor. but when it comes to stuff like ammunition and medical supplies. at some point supplies of stuff always drops of, there are cycles. like game loads in season, pigeon loads are not made, because they impact the high margin game loads. 

we filled up our pantry for what was to come, and i`m glad we did. there was no panic.

i get what you are saying, maybe fear etc helps panic buy stuff. its not entirely one thing. we actually dont understand or have little understanding about US, US politics. 

they are genuinely, concerned. 

when the different presidencys came they bulk bought ammo and loading machines. the forums were full of new reloaders. full of them, when the military contracts kicked in , and the issues with powder manufacture / retail / fullfilling millitary contracts, the domestic market was hit, very hard. thats what they want to all avoid and have fun shooting too.  

[Farmboy91]

23 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

that toilet roll fiasco was just sheer "panic" buying. the supply chain was there, its just everyones home stocks were increased. thats everyones. i hope everyone uses TP in a safe manor. but when it comes to stuff like ammunition and medical supplies. at some point supplies of stuff always drops of, there are cycles. like game loads in season, pigeon loads are not made, because they impact the high margin game loads. 

we filled up our pantry for what was to come, and i`m glad we did. there was no panic.

i get what you are saying, maybe fear etc helps panic buy stuff. its not entirely one thing. we actually dont understand or have little understanding about US, US politics. 

they are genuinely, concerned. 

when the different presidencys came they bulk bought ammo and loading machines. the forums were full of new reloaders. full of them, when the military contracts kicked in , and the issues with powder manufacture / retail / fullfilling millitary contracts, the domestic market was hit, very hard. thats what they want to all avoid and have fun shooting too.  

I just wondered where the line was for having a stock of say ammo for example and panic hording it. That's more what I was trying to get at, I get they are concerned but was wondering if they genuinely believe they will need it. I imagine if you and alot of your fellow countrymen felt that way it would make for a pretty tense atmosphere. 

If what nobodyimport is saying is correct, and I'm not doubting or judging, sitting on 50,000-100,000 rounds does seem like an awful lot. I do appreciate the culture, not just around firearms, over there is completely different to ours and I do enjoy learning about it and appreciate you sharing your insights. 

It's funny, when everyone started buying up the toilet roll, my missus was worrying too so i simply told her if it gets as bad we can't get toilet paper, what we will be wiping are backsides with will be the least of your worries anyway. 

[Imperfection]

17 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Our club has sold magtech .38 RN for use in lever action rifles by the thousand. Why is it not suitable? Its not been a problem for us.? except the next lot is going to be a lot dearer? 

Because of the danger of a bullet setting off the primer infront of it inside a tubular magazine. Everyone i know who own Marlins & Winchesters stay away from round nose and stick to RNFP.

[Guest cookoff013]

4 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

I just wondered where the line was for having a stock of say ammo for example and panic hording it. That's more what I was trying to get at, I get they are concerned but was wondering if they genuinely believe they will need it. I imagine if you and alot of your fellow countrymen felt that way it would make for a pretty tense atmosphere. 

If what nobodyimport is saying is correct, and I'm not doubting or judging, sitting on 50,000-100,000 rounds does seem like an awful lot. I do appreciate the culture, not just around firearms, over there is completely different to ours and I do enjoy learning about it and appreciate you sharing your insights. 

It's funny, when everyone started buying up the toilet roll, my missus was worrying too so i simply told her if it gets as bad we can't get toilet paper, what we will be wiping are backsides with will be the least of your worries anyway. 

 

One would sell off the tp or ammo for a healthy profit and install a bidet.?

[Farmboy91]

18 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

 

One would sell off the tp or ammo for a healthy profit and install a bidet.?

I'd save even more money and use the garden hose 😂

[NoBodyImportant]

15 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

Is there a real feeling over there that you'll actually need to use this stuff?

I don’t think I’m my lifetime,  but in my sons life.  We have developed a welfare system to the point where it pays to not work.  We are at a tipping point to where theres enough people not working that can vote themselves more benefits. Division is getting stronger in the last 10 years.  Calls for universal income is getting louder.   The left knows that to subdue the conservatives you have to disarm them.  They are trying to outlaw body armor, quickclot bandages.  

[NoBodyImportant]

10 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

I just wondered where the line was for having a stock of say ammo for example and panic hording it. That's more what I was trying to get at, I get they are concerned but was wondering if they genuinely believe they will need it. I imagine if you and alot of your fellow countrymen felt that way it would make for a pretty tense atmosphere. 

If what nobodyimport is saying is correct, and I'm not doubting or judging, sitting on 50,000-100,000 rounds does seem like an awful lot. I do appreciate the culture, not just around firearms, over there is completely different to ours and I do enjoy learning about it and appreciate you sharing your insights. 

It's funny, when everyone started buying up the toilet roll, my missus was worrying too so i simply told her if it gets as bad we can't get toilet paper, what we will be wiping are backsides with will be the least of your worries anyway. 

Honestly it’s conservative culture.  It’s perfectly normal to have a year or two of food put back.  But in a tense senerio food can’t be cut off as easily as ammo 

Edited September 16, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[Farmboy91]

5 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I don’t think I’m my lifetime,  but in my sons life.  We have developed a welfare system to the point where it pays to not work.  We are at a tipping point to where theres enough people not working that can vote themselves more benefits. Division is getting stronger in the last 10 years.  Calls for universal income is getting louder.   The left knows that to subdue the conservatives you have to disarm them.  They are trying to outlaw body armor, quickclot bandages.  

I guess when the term civil war gets thrown around there's truth behind it. 

Your welfare mess sounds as bad as ours, I've worked ever since I left school and now I'm in need of help from the govt I can't get it, whereas had I not worked at all as some choose to, I'd 1) not be in this position in the first place and 2) have everything I need financially taken care of. 

Outlawing bandages seems even more extreme than stock piling ammo 😂

1 minute ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Honestly it’s conservative culture.  It’s perfectly normal to have a year or two of food put back.  But in a tense senerio food can’t be cut off as easily as ammo can.  You take 40k rounds. Divide that between 5 locations and it’s only 8 thousand rounds.  If you have to travel you can’t take it though check points.  So you hide it.  You sheet rock it in walls, you hide it in barns.      

I love the way you say only 8,000 rounds 😂

 

[NoBodyImportant]

19 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 

Plus another thing is Americans use guns as social thing.  When neighbors come over you break out guns.   Say you have a child’s birthday.  At some point the guys sneak off to pop some rounds off.  Every heard of BBQ guns? It’s what you where to neighborhood get togethers.  It’s like a Rolex.  You open carry it so everyone can see and comment on it.  Google BBQ guns to see some beautiful guns.  

Edited September 16, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[Guest cookoff013]

14 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Plus another thing is Americans use guns as social thing.  When neighbors come over you break out guns.   Say you have a child’s birthday.  At some point the guys sneak off to pop some rounds off.  Every heard of BBQ guns? It’s what you where to neighborhood get togethers.  It’s like a Rolex.  You open carry it so everyone can see and comment on it.  Google BBQ guns to see some beautiful guns.  

Never new that !

[wabbit warren]

On 15/09/2020 at 17:32, oowee said:

£21 for 50 at Mcavoy

or £50 for 250.

what Hornady superformance varmint 53g V-MAX in .223 rem    Why so cheap

[figgy]

Same as the loo roll saga. Lots of Americans stick up in case of all out civil war, it's beyond me.  If civil war did break out I don't think the troops would be walking the streets. It would be armoured vehicles and gunships.

Lots of divvy preppers around, some believe in zombies too 🤪

[oowee]

53g vmax hornady Stocks usually good. Just bought 500 in 50g.

52 minutes ago, wabbit warren said:

what Hornady superformance varmint 53g V-MAX in .223 rem    Why so cheap

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by oowee

[Vince Green]

On 16/09/2020 at 15:28, Imperfection said:

Because of the danger of a bullet setting off the primer infront of it inside a tubular magazine. Everyone i know who own Marlins & Winchesters stay away from round nose and stick to RNFP.

Thats a very old wives tale I thought had been put to rest twenty years ago. Write to Marlin and ask them about it, they say their rifles can use any commercial ammunition. I've heard it said many times but Marlin would be mad to produce a rifle that was potentially dangerous with the most common design of ammunition available and sell them in USA. Use RNFP by all means if you want to but don't worry about using RN.

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Thats a very old wives tale I thought had been put to rest twenty years ago. Write to Marlin and ask them about it, they say their rifles can use any commercial ammunition. I've heard it said many times but Marlin would be mad to produce a rifle that was potentially dangerous with the most common design of ammunition available and sell them in USA. Use RNFP by all means if you want to but don't worry about using RN.

Well that’s not what Winchester state, and if an accident occurred would insurance pay out? Expert witness in court, well your honour the gun was being used with the wrong ammunition? Guess that is why Clubs will keep to what the gun manufactures  state.

USE ONLY AMMUNITION SUITABLE FOR USE IN A CENTERFIRE RIFLE WITH A TUBULAR MAGAZINE. USE ONLY FLAT NOSE, HOLLOW POINT, ROUND NOSE FLAT POINT OR SIMILAR BULLETS. NEVER USE POINTED OR CONICAL POINT BULLETS IN A CENTERFIRE RIFLE WITH A TUBULAR MAGAZINE. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS COULD RESULT IN INJURY TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS, AND CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR FIREARM.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/content/dam/winchester-repeating-arms/support/owners-manuals/2016/14-WRA-342_Model_94_OM_WEB.pdf
 

 

[Lloyd90]

5 hours ago, figgy said:

Same as the loo roll saga. Lots of Americans stick up in case of all out civil war, it's beyond me.  If civil war did break out I don't think the troops would be walking the streets. It would be armoured vehicles and gunships.

Lots of divvy preppers around, some believe in zombies too 🤪

 

Yes it's not like small guerilla forces have ever managed to oppose much larger and better equipped oppressive forces in a warzone in the past is it? ...  oh wait ... 

 

 

America is a different world from the U.K. ... In the U.K. if someone breaks into your home and starts stealing your stuff you have to phone the Police and stay in a safe place whilst some low life takes what isn't there's and helps themselves to your hard earner. We've only recently had legislation to make it legal for home owners to go down and intercept burglars and protect the home owner from prosecution. 

 

 

In the USA your within your right to defend what is yours, your home, and your family. Also unlike the U.K. they have a lot of isolated areas, a culture of hard work and independence from the state and also borders with other countries that are known for running illegal activities across land. Ranchers in Texas can have drug cartels or people smugglers coming across their land at night ... it's not good when the cops are over an hour away and someone is breaking into your house right now! 

 

 

Criminality in America does also seem to be a lot more hardcore. The U.K. benefit system is almost like a form of social control. Keeping those who are unable (or refuse) to work in a (albeit it often poor quality) home. Giving them enough money for food, fags and booze, it keeps them suppressed and stops them rising up and rioting or taking from those who have what they need. 

 

Look at almost every major revolution of recent generations, Egypt etc, they all came about after major food shortages. People stop being able to afford basics, when the wheat crop failed in Egpyt and their areas around there it got to the point people couldn't even afford basic bread anymore and next thing they had a revolution on their hands.

In America their system does not support the have not's, it's a quite brutal system, although supports the culture of if you want something then work for it. It sadly also supports the culture of if your really desperate and someone else has what you need, then take it. 

 

Armed home invasions, rioting, look at the BLM protests now. Large scale well organised movements trying to overthrow large areas. 

 

 

 

If anything thinks it's simply a case that American's are "gun nuts" and "red necks" then they are massively missing a lot of the picture over there. Its a far far far more complex situatiuon on many different levels. 

[NoBodyImportant]

6 hours ago, figgy said:

Same as the loo roll saga. Lots of Americans stick up in case of all out civil war, it's beyond me.  If civil war did break out I don't think the troops would be walking the streets. It would be armoured vehicles and gunships.

Lots of divvy preppers around, some believe in zombies too 🤪

No one believes in zombies.  On a huge American gun forum it was banned from talking about fighting Government forces.  So the code zombies started being used.  That spun off into to whole zombie apocalypse phase that swept the county a few years back.  

[NoBodyImportant]

26 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Yes it's not like small guerilla forces have ever managed to oppose much larger and better equipped oppressive forces in a warzone in the past is it? ...  oh wait ... 

America can defeat and army in the world as long as they wear a uniform.  But the second the uniform comes off America will defeat itself with rules of war and civilian rights.  

[figgy]

Lloyd I watched a program on America about the benefits system and food stamps. It showed just how well folk can live on the system. Whether true or not and just for TV but they looked much better off than our system.

So you have armed burglary and tresspass, does that warrant a 100k rounds of ammo.

[Guest cookoff013]

11 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

No one believes in zombies.  On a huge American gun forum it was banned from talking about fighting Government forces.  So the code zombies started being used.  That spun off into to whole zombie apocalypse phase that swept the county a few years back.  

yup.
i loved all the zombie stuff anyway, zombie reloaders too from MEC.

also believed to be used for "burglar" doing B&E or up to no good. Home defense stuff.

[NoBodyImportant]

On 17/09/2020 at 23:53, figgy said:

Lloyd I watched a program on America about the benefits system and food stamps. It showed just how well folk can live on the system. Whether true or not and just for TV but they looked much better off than our system.

So you have armed burglary and tresspass, does that warrant a 100k rounds of ammo.

The second amendment has nothing to do with protecting your home from evasion.  It is to secure the right of the free state.  But our Supreme Court has ruled To the right of self defense.  

[NoBodyImportant]

On 18/09/2020 at 05:30, cookoff013 said:

yup.
i loved all the zombie stuff anyway, zombie reloaders too from MEC.

also believed to be used for "burglar" doing B&E or up to no good. Home defense stuff.

Yeah, it became a euphemism to anything wanting to do you harm.  It was a good thing.   It got people to stock up on medical supplies, ammo, generators,  and other disaster supplies.  

[Lever357]

On 15/09/2020 at 17:25, Imperfection said:

 

What i bought was standard Magtech 38sp,but round nose bullet which is fine for my LBR but not suitable for lever actions. It was £21 per 100 and at that price it isn't worth me homeloading so i stocked upto my hold limit (600).

I even cast my own bullets but when its this cheap i'd be a fool to turn it down.

 

£21 per 100??? So 2 boxes of 50 for £21???

[Vince Green]

On 16/09/2020 at 12:24, cookoff013 said:

 

when the different presidencys came they bulk bought ammo and loading machines. the forums were full of new reloaders. full of them, when the military contracts kicked in , and the issues with powder manufacture / retail / fullfilling millitary contracts, the domestic market was hit, very hard. thats what they want to all avoid and have fun shooting too.  

The only thing you are not right about is that there are ever any military contracts issued for ammunition in the USA. Since WW2 Federal law has been that all military ammunition and all its components has to be made in house by the military itself from materials sourced from within the US. The biggest plant is at Lake City, and its huge, but there are others dotted about strategically.

Most american military ammo is headstamped LC like ours is stamped RG (Royal Ordinance Factory Radway Green)

None is bought from any civilian manufacturers. They probably wouldn't be able to meet the strict specification requirements these days in any case.

We tend to think of military ammunition as being of a lower standard than commercial ammo but actually the reverse is probably true.

 It was a blow for the big names because years ago government contracts were big business for them  The thinking behind this move was initially National security, the threat of strikes by agitators during WW2 and civilian plants were not secure enough to be safe from sabotage. This way they have total control. As ammunition and weapon systems become more sophisticated they need consistancy. Chain fed machine guns on helicopter gun ships fire thousands of rounds a minute, they cant afford jam ups.   

Edited September 24, 2020 by Vince Green

[Vince Green]

17 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

duplicate post

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Vince Green