JohnfromUK Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, cookoff013 said: people just want a good time. covid is going to muller christmas. its going to really destroy it. not to sound scrooge like, but christmas is going to be limp at best. just plan for it. itll be back to normal soon enough. You are right. And it would really put a big damper on it if one of the elderly relatives people invite round ended up in hospital or worse. That's why playing this Christmas with caution simply makes sense. My relatives are a short walk away ......... but I suspect Christmas 'celebration' will be a walk in the fresh air. We have only met up outside since March, but we know we are all well and intend to do our best to stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 It would be interesting to know to what extent the rise in cases is due to "innocent" transmission, by which I mean spreading of cases by people who are asymptomatic and therefore unaware, versus those who have tested positive but have more or less carried on as normal. No practical way of knowing of course, but... For me, I think it's inevitable and somewhat understandable that people will push the boundary on the rules in going about their normal routines in the case where they are unaware / unsuspecting of being COVID positive. I suspect the vast majority fully adhered during the original lockdown but compliance is likely to wane the longer this goes on for, not least in part because of the numerous cases where the rule makers have shown themselves to be either incapable or unwilling to follow the rules themselves. Then there are the baffling concessions like the exemption of the rules for business lunches, which are clearly intended as a mechanism to circumvent the general guidelines. Compare that to the fact that a "couple" can work in the office together all day but not go for a meal, movie, drink or cinema together in the evening. In the case where people have symptoms or knowingly continue in spite of the fact they have tested positive, I find this below contempt. This was the reason I started this thread based on personal experience of people I know (and increasingly dislike). These people continue to maintain "innoncence" despite openly trying to work out who "snitched on them". Well, it wasn't me but I may or may not know who it was that did - if push comes to shove it will be another "I'm Spartacus" moment for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 What has happened to those that you did not snitch upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: people just want a good time. covid is going to muller christmas. its going to really destroy it. not to sound scrooge like, but christmas is going to be limp at best. just plan for it. itll be back to normal soon enough. Not really, Christmas will be a small family occasion for us, simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: What has happened to those that you did not snitch upon? They got a visit from the Police and lied through their teeth about it all. Also, for what it's worth, I totally reject the notion that snitch is applicable in reporting people during a public health crisis who are flaunting the rules when infected by said cause of crisis. I would hope few would disagree with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: They got a visit from the Police and lied through their teeth about it all. Also, for what it's worth, I totally reject the notion that snitch is applicable in reporting people during a public health crisis who are flaunting the rules when infected by said cause of crisis. I would hope few would disagree with me. anyone endangering lives deserve everything they get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Biggest current fly in the ointment with regard to an available vaccine is that at the moment the anti-bodies are not lasting very long. So you effectively become possibly immune, but not for very long! I ready that report but its not really that exact, its based on two random tests, one in June and one in September. The first test detected 6% had antbodies the second detected 4.4% Its certainly disappointing that the figure hadn't gone up significantly but as they were both random samples there is no real way of knowing if they represent a true comparison like for like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It would be interesting to know to what extent the rise in cases is due to "innocent" transmission, by which I mean spreading of cases by people who are asymptomatic and therefore unaware, versus those who have tested positive but have more or less carried on as normal. Yes, it would - but the reason we have what some call 'draconian' rules that apply to all, old and young alike - are mainly because this virus can be asymptomatic - and is also capable of being passed on before people (even those who go on to get it badly) are aware of symptoms. In the only confirmed case I know of amongst my local population - several people got ill and confirmed Covid (including one couple I know) - and in the ensuing contact tracing (which incidentally happened quite efficiently) - it turned up a common factor in a particular pub/restaurant - where testing then showed two staff to be positive asymptomatic. It is difficult to know sometimes; I was quite unpleasantly ill around/shortly after Christmas and into new year. Could only get phone conference with Dr, but had blood tests - which were not for Covid (which wasn't officially here then) - which came back negative for all things tested. After a couple of weeks or so I was better and forgotten about, but had lost a stone and a half and felt very rough at the time. It was suggested it might be 'a virus'. With hindsight I think I may have had Covid, but can't be certain. The symptoms I had were not originally 'headline Covid symptoms' that time, but are now listed as possible symptoms. I am generally fairly 'reclusive', but could have caught it from someone asymptomatic as I did mix with a load who had been skiing shortly before Christmas, but only one of them was mildly ill ........ who knows? He thought he had a cold on top of a busy week away ........ If had had the illness I had then now - I would not mix with anyone and assume I might well have Covid - but we didn't know then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I really wish people (including government) would get a grip. COVID19 average age that dies having had it in the previous 28 days is 82 and it is not necessarily the prime cause of death. Only 5 people under 25 have died from it in the UK without known pre existing complications. Only 4.4% of people died from it last week, 95% if deaths were from other reasons. This is not the Spanish flu that was killing thousands. Rule of 6 or similar only makes a 3% difference to infection rate so lockdown s do not work. Half of councils last week reported declining numbers. "R" rate is already declining without further lockdown s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, Stonepark said: I really wish people (including government) would get a grip. COVID19 average age that dies having had it in the previous 28 days is 82 and it is not necessarily the prime cause of death. Only 5 people under 25 have died from it in the UK without known pre existing complications. Only 4.4% of people died from it last week, 95% if deaths were from other reasons. This is not the Spanish flu that was killing thousands. Rule of 6 or similar only makes a 3% difference to infection rate so lockdown s do not work. Half of councils last week reported declining numbers. "R" rate is already declining without further lockdown s. I agree but of course it's not just about dying from COVID. It should also possibly be noted that the social distancing is attributed to reductions in flu and pneumonia deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Interesting view here on how China has 'largely overcome' the outbreak; https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-china-back-to-normal-us-europe-struggle-2020-10?r=US&IR=T&utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Half of councils last week reported declining numbers local council yesterday reported our unis now FOUR times the national infection rate CONFIRMED a rise week on week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 There is growing concern amongst ministers apparently, that there may be mass non- compliance this coming Christmas from the elderly, some of whom may well think.....I’m going to risk getting Covid to see the family this Christmas because I‘M of an age now where I don’t know how many I’ve got left. This is why some ministers are pushing for an easing of restrictions at the Christmas period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, Scully said: There is growing concern amongst ministers apparently, that there may be mass non- compliance this coming Christmas from the elderly, some of whom may well think.....I’m going to risk getting Covid to see the family this Christmas because I‘M of an age now where I don’t know how many I’ve got left. This is why some ministers are pushing for an easing of restrictions at the Christmas period. Which is totally understandable from all perspectives I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Which is totally understandable from all perspectives I think. Wanting to see family is totally understandable, but arguably short sighted and will possibly just lengthen the problem. It is very easy to see where this can all go horribly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I will be getting together in a group of 8 at Christmas. Myself, wife, four children, daughters husband and sons Girlfriend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 obviously the most popular gift this year will be covid 19 nothing like killing a family member to get the message across Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, clangerman said: obviously the most popular gift this year will be covid 19 nothing like killing a family member to get the message across Cheap shot. Just now, AVB said: I will be getting together in a group of 8 at Christmas. Myself, wife, four children, daughters husband and sons Girlfriend. Likewise. We will make a collective decision on whether or not my mother joins us, but for the fact she has a female companion who lives with her, she'd already be part of our direct support bubble. We will make the call very close to the time but mum is keen to at least spend a day or two with us. Since she and her companion are more or less locked down in isolation, the only real risk is one of our direct household passing on the infection to them. Calculated personal risks, we are all grown-ups. Just now, JohnfromUK said: Wanting to see family is totally understandable, but arguably short sighted and will possibly just lengthen the problem. It is very easy to see where this can all go horribly wrong. Yes, as you say, arguably and possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Just now, Raja Clavata said: Cheap shot cheap but true if someone as irresponsible as me can refrain from causing the death of others so can everyone else grand dad will not thank anyone if he snuffs it especially this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, Scully said: There is growing concern amongst ministers apparently, that there may be mass non- compliance this coming Christmas from the elderly, some of whom may well think.....I’m going to risk getting Covid to see the family this Christmas because I‘M of an age now where I don’t know how many I’ve got left. This is why some ministers are pushing for an easing of restrictions at the Christmas period. Absolutely. One of the reasons that the Government didn’t go into lockdown sooner, and holding out this time, is that people will only stand lockdown for so long. Especially with the restively low mortality rate and the age of those dying. Look at the riots taking place across Europe now. Same thing will inevitably happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, clangerman said: cheap but true if someone as irresponsible as me can refrain from causing the death of others so can everyone else grand dad will not thank anyone if he snuffs it especially this one It’s the Grandparents who are willing to take the risk of contracting Covid, deeming the risk worthwhile as they know they don’t have many left anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 The Christmas tree farm I work at is opening on the 14th of november with hand sanitiser stations and a one way system. Everyone required to wear masks which they will supply to the staff. My request for a taser was turned down (again). The first two weekends in December are always absolute bedlam. If the numbers are even half normal then social distancing will collapse. Don’t really know which way it will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scully said: It’s the Grandparents who are willing to take the risk of contracting Covid, deeming the risk worthwhile as they know they don’t have many left anyhow. as a grand parent i would rather be around for my grandson a bit longer than risk him losing me just for one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, clangerman said: as a grand parent i would rather be around for my grandson a bit longer than risk him losing me just for one day That’s fair enough, but others have different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Scully said: That’s fair enough, but others have different circumstances. i get the point grateful I still wake up in the morning myself now funerals are a main social event still the grubs free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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