Damned if you do.......

[WalkedUp]

Bedlam. 

[discobob]

31 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Bedlam. 

whats the infection rate like there??? 

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Andy Burnham apparently threatening legal action!

and who is paying for this waste of money - the leiboor party? the man himself?  no the taxpayer so this power hungry idiot can get back in the limelight playing politics.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

and who is paying for this waste of money - the leiboor party? the man himself?  no the taxpayer so this power hungry idiot can get back in the limelight playing politics.

It is a classic - both funded by 'the general public (or at least those of the general public who actually contribute to the public purse - which seems a rapidly diminishing group'), being the Manchester local taxpayers on one hand versus HMG (from our taxes) on the other.  The good folk of Manchester are fully funding one side and partially (at least those who pay taxes) funding the other - so in effect fighting themselves .........

Meanwhile - the lawyers get rich, the epidemic prevention measures may get delayed/reduced, the overstretched courts get clooged up further - and (probably most important) Andy Burnham gets even more BBC air time limelight - something he obviously thrives on and gets a great 'ego boost' from.

He is very clearly a man who is desperate to have 24 hour coverage of himself.  I wonder if he is related to a certain Meghan Markle?  Just a thought!

[AVB]

And then we have the muppets in Essex County Council who are asking to be moved UP a level. 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

And then we have the muppets in Essex County Council who are asking to be moved UP a level. 

I saw this, along with some wild and wacky comments around it on Facebook, gotta wonder sometimes...

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I saw this, along with some wild and wacky comments around it on Facebook, gotta wonder sometimes...

David Finch is the doddery old *** who is leader of the council. He should just be self isolating and do us all a favour.  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

These northern Mayors and MPs are basically saying that they will not allow further restrictions.

 

Why have they not stepped in and suggested people do what they should? 

 

Then maybe it would not have come to more restrictions

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

These northern Mayors and MPs are basically saying that they will not allow further restrictions.

 

Why have they not stepped in and suggested people do what they should? 

 

Then maybe it would not have come to more restrictions

Suggestion; they are Labour mayors - therefore they will oppose (virtually) everything the present (Tory) govt. proposes as a matter of principle.  It's called 'playing politics'.  Pretty despicable when we are talking peoples livelihoods, health and even lives, but then that's politicians for you.  No thought for the people they represent.

[AVB]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Suggestion; they are Labour mayors - therefore they will oppose (virtually) everything the present (Tory) govt. proposes as a matter of principle.  It's called 'playing politics'.  Pretty despicable when we are talking peoples livelihoods, health and even lives, but then that's politicians for you.  No thought for the people they represent.

One of the Liverpool councillors was interviewed on the radio. He was trying to argue that a National Lockdown was better for Liverpool than a local one. It was illogical other than Labour supporting a national lockdown. 

[Vince Green]

A local lockdown with out a travel ban is just a waste of time

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

These northern Mayors and MPs are basically saying that they will not allow further restrictions.

 

Why have they not stepped in and suggested people do what they should? 

 

Then maybe it would not have come to more restrictions

They have been saying folk need to do this that and whatever else is needed, without it really being done, all these threats and telly time are about trying to get more money out of government looking for an 'improved financial package '

After Leicester was put into lockdown many areas in Manchester and Lancashire have gone way higher than Leicester numbrs were.

AB has been constantly saying the ten pm pub closures were a waste of time and I'd have to agree with him on that one.

[Vince Green]

39 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

39 minutes ago, Mice! said:

AB has been constantly saying the ten pm pub closures were a waste of time and I'd have to agree with him on that one.

 

Closing down well run pubs at 10pm is a waste of time but there lies the question. Are the pubs being well run?

Did that lot in Liverpool look like they had just come out of pubs where they had all been sitting social distancing like good little boys and girls? Or did the party they had already been having inside spill out into the streets at 10pm?

Edited October 15, 2020 by Vince Green

[Mice!]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Closing down well run pubs at 10pm is a waste of time but there lies the question. Are the pubs being well run?

I very much doubt it.

There was an interesting point on the news yesterday,  a restaurant in Liverpool complaining that they weren't being shut so couldn't claim anything,  they were staying open but had no trade. It was being looked at they said?

[Mice!]

Probably why the Liverpool Mayor was so annoyed,  they just got told they were in tier 3 no negotiations. 

But how can a Mayor say no to the Government??

Can't blame them for trying to get as much as possible,  I mean it's not like there is a national crisis or anything.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well it must be bloody serious, Laura Kuenssberg is ranting on the BBC News AGAIN, she only appears when things are dire!

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well it must be bloody serious, Laura Kuenssberg is ranting on the BBC News AGAIN, she only appears when things are dire!

I watched ITV tonight,  no ranting,  there seem to be lots of threats getting thrown around,  North South divide, the North backed Boris which is why he isn't just saying tier 3, apparently wants the backing of Councils and Mayors so the rules are followed,  as if say AB agreeing to the terms will make folk any more likely to not mix.

They were in Burnley tonight showing the town centre empty and a doctor saying how the virus is spreading through the terraced houses,  it can only spread if the house holds are still mixing,  or I suppose if kids are taking it home.

Northern Ireland seem to have the best idea, everything's shut again, no one wants this but I just don't see how different areas having different regulations is going to work.

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, Mice! said:

I very much doubt it.

There was an interesting point on the news yesterday,  a restaurant in Liverpool complaining that they weren't being shut so couldn't claim anything,  they were staying open but had no trade. It was being looked at they said?

I can easily believe it to be true

9pm ish tonight I went out to fill up for my weekly run from London to Cornwall tomorrow morning. Went past a big and very popular Turkish restaurant on the way that we often use. There wasn't a soul in it. just the staff sitting at a table doing nothing looking like they were bored.

Thursday night that time normally the place would be half full at least. 

But while i was driving I was listening to Ian Dale on LBC. Somebody phoned in to say a lot of pubs in Liverpool are still open. If thats true its an enforcement issue. 

Slap a few £10,000 fines on the landlords and see how many are open after that

[WalkedUp]

Labour mayor Andy Burham is causing havoc. BoJo should put pressure on Sir Kier Starmer to step up and explain why. If we had a national lockdown as desired then that would be defecto tier 3, so Mancs have nothing to complain about either way. Turnham’s stance will cost lives. Compliance in the north is already very low. I’m just getting fed up of this disaster. 

With the schools open none of the social distancing aspects make much difference. I can’t speak to my mum in her garden but my wife is in school with 300 children (a year group) in each bubble. 2100 students plus 250 staff in one building. 

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I can easily believe it to be true

9pm ish tonight I went out to fill up for my weekly run from London to Cornwall tomorrow morning. Went past a big and very popular Turkish restaurant on the way that we often use. There wasn't a soul in it. just the staff sitting at a table doing nothing looking like they were bored.

Thursday night that time normally the place would be half full at least. 

But while i was driving I was listening to Ian Dale on LBC. Somebody phoned in to say a lot of pubs in Liverpool are still open. If thats true its an enforcement issue. 

Slap a few £10,000 fines on the landlords and see how many are open after that

A local gym received a £1000 fine yesterday for ignoring the lockdown closures. Via crowd funding they have £28000 in donations 24 hrs later. 

[AVB]

36 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I watched ITV tonight,  no ranting,  there seem to be lots of threats getting thrown around,  North South divide, the North backed Boris which is why he isn't just saying tier 3, apparently wants the backing of Councils and Mayors so the rules are followed,  as if say AB agreeing to the terms will make folk any more likely to not mix.

They were in Burnley tonight showing the town centre empty and a doctor saying how the virus is spreading through the terraced houses,  it can only spread if the house holds are still mixing,  or I suppose if kids are taking it home.

Northern Ireland seem to have the best idea, everything's shut again, no one wants this but I just don't see how different areas having different regulations is going to work.

I don’t see why different regions having different restrictions shouldn’t work. Why close down businesses in an area with low cases?  The posturing from Burnham is just political. 
 

That said I disagree with any lockdowns 

Edited October 15, 2020 by AVB

[Vince Green]

12 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Labour mayor Andy Burham is causing havoc. BoJo should put pressure on Sir Kier Starmer to step up and explain why. If we had a national lockdown as desired then that would be defecto tier 3, so Mancs have nothing to complain about either way. Turnham’s stance will cost lives. Compliance in the north is already very low. I’m just getting fed up of this disaster. 

With the schools open none of the social distancing aspects make much difference. I can’t speak to my mum in her garden but my wife is in school with 300 children (a year group) in each bubble. 2100 students plus 250 staff in one building. 

A local gym received a £1000 fine yesterday for ignoring the lockdown closures. Via crowd funding they have £28000 in donations 24 hrs later. 

Andy Burnham is a self publicist who is after Starmer's job, the pandemic is just grist to his mill. Starmer is fighting a dirty war behind his back. not out in front against Boris.

He isn't really engaged in the day to day stuff.  

Edited October 15, 2020 by Vince Green

[Mice!]

12 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

local gym received a £1000 fine yesterday for ignoring the lockdown closures. Via crowd funding they have £28000 in donations 24 hrs later. 

I saw that but I think the donations were on a go fund page for refusal to comply with covid restrictions not specifically for the gym, the gym was also on the day before saying how important it was to stay open for peoples physical and mental health. 

He was told close or you will be fined, but chose the fine.

12 minutes ago, AVB said:

don’t see why different regions having different regions shouldn’t work. Why close down businesses in an area with low cases?  The posturing from Burnham is just political. 
 

That said I disagree with any lockdowns 

Because people in, let's pick on Liverpool will travel to Lancashire or Manchester to watch the football, go shopping or travel to Wales for the day.

Rates are rising pretty much everywhere,  when some areas are put in lockdown and some aren't it seems too many people say stuff it.

It must have gotten to the point where we need a national lockdown again as per Northern Ireland,  or Gov say enough is enough those who are vulnerable stay home, it seems like they are trying to do both and achieving neither. 

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

Because people in, let's pick on Liverpool will travel to Lancashire or Manchester to watch the football, go shopping or travel to Wales for the day.

Rates are rising pretty much everywhere,  when some areas are put in lockdown and some aren't it seems too many people say stuff it.

It must have gotten to the point where we need a national lockdown again as per Northern Ireland,  or Gov say enough is enough those who are vulnerable stay home, it seems like they are trying to do both and achieving neither. 

I don’t believe the majority of the population will stand for another national lockdown. I’m not going to bother following the tier 2 restrictions in place for Essex (I’m not even sure it applies to me anyway!) 

[Mice!]

5 minutes ago, AVB said:

I don’t believe the majority of the population will stand for another national lockdown. I’m not going to bother following the tier 2 restrictions in place for Essex (I’m not even sure it applies to me anyway!) 

There isn't much in it between 1 and 2 really,  and like you say most will ignore it,  why tell people their kids can't go round and play at their mates but they can be in school all day?

Even if they do a three week lockdown the rates will continue to go up before they come down,  but the longer things are left the more cases will rise, that much is obvious. 

[timps]

The trouble is living in Greater Manchester I have been in a lock down tighter than tier two from around August and it hasn’t worked. Bolton went into a tier 3 type lockdown and that didn’t work, I live on the Bolton Bury border and it was a joke, all it did was hurt Bolton’s local economy.

I have not legally been able to see my family or friends outside or inside since this was imposed, then on Wednesday when we were put in Tier 2 I could actually meet family and friends for the first time in over two months outside under the rule of six. Now they are saying nope we are going to stop you again.

Obviously, when we already haven’t been able to socialise or see family at all, outside or inside even under the rule of six for over two months and this hasn’t worked, the appetite for more restrictions without some form of scientific evidence that what they are proposing this time will work is waning.

Having lived in a local lockdown for near enough three months already I have zero faith in them. We were told over two months ago these further restrictions would work and they blatantly haven’t so the feeling is this new tier 3 wont work either.

What Boris is proposing by moving us in to tier 3 means I will not have been able to see my son or family or any friends for an extra month making it 4 months, add that to the original lockdown and you can see why compliance is going to be an issue on the vast majority of law abiding people without some hard-fast scientific facts that it will work.

We don’t have the answers of what to do up here either, we just know what hasn’t worked so far and we were told the original restrictions would work. What Boris is proposing is more of the same hence why the conservative MP I voted for doesn’t back the local lockdown either and he knows it is alienating local businesses and voters that usually vote conservative in a marginal seat.

Ironically, I have just come back from the local pub where I was talking to a local conservative party worker who was involved with the video meeting with the government and my MP about the lockdown. I cannot repeat his views on the meeting due to the swear filter but enough to say that all parties were unanimously against it and were furious with it. I have no time for the mayor of Manchester but when my own conservative MP is more scathing than Andy Burnham about the government there are issues.

Edited October 15, 2020 by timps