New strain of CV!!!

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

So what was we all meant to do? Stay locked up since March? I bet you’ve been doing that. If you hadn’t realised restaurants and theatres have been open. You’re the problem the economy’s crashing. 

Yes and proud of it, but you are wrong, the pandemic is the reason not me. I don't kill people, the virus kills people and idiots spread it

[Raja Clavata]

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I love that, one rule for the rich and another for the poor, probably the erm poorer areas people are still going to work because they have to,  while in the more affluent areas people are staying home getting paid, maybe working from home.

That for me is why II wouldn't be travelling into London for a meal and a show.

Lancs is in tier 3 while Yorkshire is in 2, in some areas like Skipton,  the police have been stopping cars heading for Skipton and I have no problem with that otherwise places like Skipton will be in 3 before you know it.

You've confused me. You argue against us and them in the first paragraph then seem to advocate it in the last one?

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Yes and proud of it, but you are wrong, the pandemic is the reason not me. I don't kill people, the virus kills people and idiots spread it

So anybody going outside their house, staying socially distanced, wearing a mask where the law mandates it is an idiot?  I think you are just a mug. 

[Vince Green]

10 minutes ago, AVB said:

So anybody going outside their house, staying socially distanced, wearing a mask where the law mandates it is an idiot?  I think you are just a mug. 

No I think you are a mug if you can't see that going up to London for two restaurant meals on two separate occasions and taking in a pantomime at the London Palladium is unnecessary behaviour at the present time. Then using the excuses that its keeping the economy going is clutching at straws. It shows to me you know its wrong.

What part of "unless its absolutely necessary" do you have trouble with? 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Vince Green

[Mice!]

35 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You've confused me. You argue against us and them in the first paragraph then seem to advocate it in the last one?

No I think AVB needs to watch Fightclub, the chances are those in the 'scummy' areas probably work in the shops and restaurants of the nice areas, you can't say its scummy lock them down.

Lancs is tier 3 while Skipton is tier 2, you aren't supposed to travel higher to lower for the sake of a meal, it's not them and us it's not risking spreading the virus. If Wednesday both areas are in 2 then people will travel but I'm not expecting East Lancashire to be in 2, but it will be between two areas that are, make of that what you will.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Mice!
I put west instead of East

[AVB]

4 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

No I think you are a mug if you can't see that going up to London for two restaurant meals on two separate occasions and taking in a pantomime at the London Palladium is unnecessary behaviour at the present time. Then using the excuses that its keeping the economy going is clutching at straws. It shows to me you know its wrong 

Perfectly legal. We are encouraged to support the hospitality sector and the arts and was safe enough for Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and their young children to go. Lets just stay locked up though. 

[AVB]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

No I think AVB needs to watch Fightclub, the chances are those in the 'scummy' areas probably work in the shops and restaurants of the nice areas, you can't say its scummy lock them down.

 

I wasn’t saying that they should be locked down. It’s the Government who are saying that. What I did say was that if they can separate areas within Essex and Herts then why not London as there are big differences  in rates between say Newham and Westminster? 

[Raja Clavata]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

No I think AVB needs to watch Fightclub, the chances are those in the 'scummy' areas probably work in the shops and restaurants of the nice areas, you can't say its scummy lock them down.

Lancs is tier 3 while Skipton is tier 2, you aren't supposed to travel higher to lower for the sake of a meal, it's not them and us it's not risking spreading the virus. If Wednesday both areas are in 2 then people will travel but I'm not expecting West Lancashire to be in 2, but it will be between two areas that are, make of that what you will.

Just too flaky in my opinion. All in or out of it together IMHO. Lockdown lite didn't work in Germany. It hasn't worked here either.

FWIW I'm not even in favour of lockdown, as far as I'm concerned those that need or want to shield can, supported in the case of need, but the rest of us just need to crack on whilst there is still something to crack on with.

Anyway, it's the classification of this new strain I'm most interested in.

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Perfectly legal. We are encouraged to support the hospitality sector and the arts and was safe enough for Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and their young children to go. Lets just stay locked up though. 

I don't think you are going to get it are you?  Who is encouraging us to support the hospitality sector and the arts? Absolutely nobody , except of course, the hospitality sector and the arts themselves, but thats hardly a justification, they just want our money, they don't care if somebody dies in the process.  

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

I don’t know why they didn’t split London up as they have with Essex and Herts. The west end has relatively low rates. It’s the scummy parts of London that have higher ones. 

You said to split London up and that it's the scummy parts that have higher rates, that's probably the same in every city across the country,  but people travel throughout the cities to work, people travel to eat and watch shows😉 how can they close just part of London?

[Raja Clavata]

I'm out of this one until the deets on the new strain / variant are published. I can only assume some are old, gullible, vulnerable or a combination of all three.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Raja Clavata

[ninjaferret]

My tuppence worth, Boris should have gone for a full lock down at the start, and worked on from there. 

The second lock down in my part of the world has been farcical . As far as, the doctors during the first lock down you could get a repeat prescription over the phone, but during the second lock down, you had to go to the surgery. My parents who in their 80's , have shielded since march, then have been forced to go out to the doctor's by the doctor's. Now to me that speaks volumes.

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm out of this one until the deets on the new strain / variant are published. I can only assume some are old, gullible, vulnerable or a combination of all three.

Your out with a parting shot!, personally I'm not old, gullible or vulnerable , but I have relatives who are older and friends. 

Take care. 

[AVB]

Just now, Mice! said:

You said to split London up and that it's the scummy parts that have higher rates, that's probably the same in every city across the country,  but people travel throughout the cities to work, people travel to eat and watch shows😉 how can they close just part of London?

Using the same logic how can they close part of a county or part of the U.K.? It’s either viable or it isn’t. There isn’t anything magical about London it’s just a collection of people and businesses. 

 

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I don't think you are going to get it are you?  Who is encouraging us to support the hospitality sector and the arts? Absolutely nobody , except of course, the hospitality sector and the arts themselves, but thats hardly a justification, they just want our money, they don't care if somebody dies in the process.  

You do remember eat out to help out don’t you! 
 

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Mice! said:

Your out with a parting shot!, personally I'm not old, gullible or vulnerable , but I have relatives who are older and friends. 

Take care. 

I promise my comment was in no way directed at you my dear chap. I too have older friends and relatives by the way, there is nothing wrong with needing to or wanting to shield but branding anyone doesn't want or need to do that an idiot reminds me of the kind of "discussions" I used to have with my old, ill-educated and rather bigoted late Grandfather, who for various reasons I have very little respect for 👍

[grrclark]

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I don't think you are going to get it are you?  Who is encouraging us to support the hospitality sector and the arts? Absolutely nobody , except of course, the hospitality sector and the arts themselves, but thats hardly a justification, they just want our money, they don't care if somebody dies in the process.  

On a bit of a self righteous campaign Vince?

What about the lives of those working in these sectors that have been irrevocably damaged.  Mortgage payments unable to be made, lifetimes worth of effort and commitment thrown asunder through absolutely no fault of their own.  So many life’s dreams and aspirations snuffed out by knee jerk and inconsistent government reactions.  Millions of people will be left behind as a consequence.

Shame those who are comfortable in their retirement, who had their chance to build a nest egg without the government turning off the taps can play what they think is the morally superior card boasting how they stayed at home to save us all.

You really have no clue beyond the boundaries of your own self interest and you demonstrate that time and again.

[Mice!]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Using the same logic how can they close part of a county or part of the U.K.? It’s either viable or it isn’t. There isn’t anything magical about London it’s just a collection of people and businesses. 

I don't know how they can close part of a county but WEST( I mean West this time) Lancs, Lancaster and Morecambe look quite good at the moment along with a good few other areas, while East Lancs and Preston don't. 

They recently stopped all ameture football around Preston, Leyland, Blackburn,  Burnley because the cases weren't going down enough and said people couldn't travel from these areas to play for other teams.

 

[243deer]

I think the only folk that we can blame for the continued spread of the virus is ourselves. My own experience of going to a small town supermarket has been dreadful with folk oblivious it seems to maintaining 2m, some still not wearing masks and some even pushing in front to pick something off a shelf because their selfishness and time are far more important than everyones health. I dread to think what things are like in large town supermarkets at weekends.

All the government actions are scrutinised by the lords covid committee, those of you trying to make cheap political snipes might like to look at the political make up of this committee which is made up of folk who will in general have more age related wisdom and experience than MP's https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/460/covid19-committee/membership/.

We do, of course, not have anyone still alive with experience from the Spanish flu pandemic. Not that it would have made a jot of difference if we did as the world is a very different place so I do not understand how some folk have expected a government with no previous pandemic experience to somehow miraculously find the perfect solution.

Our biggest concern should be this apparent mutation, especially if it will make the pfizer vaccine useless. If it is going to mutate like flu on an annual basis it is going to take a few years to get enough of an inkling of how it works in order to get a vaccine ahead of it. 

We may have just added 5 years to creating a nearly 100pc effective vaccine in which case the moral dilemma of should we just let it run its course will need to be discussed again (a discussion for another thread rather than hijack this one)

 

[Mungler]

We have had 3 more cases at work over the weekend, all involving ladies in their 60’s who are caring for their parents in their 80’s and who have taken all of this very very seriously - masks, still washing down shopping  the lot.

I’ve worked out that if they’re getting it then it’s not a fault based activity ie it’s out there, it’s highly contagious and the masks we’re all buying are of no use (they are a placebo).

Incidentally, all cases have been asymptomatic or with nothing more than a headache for one day.

Edit:

Oh and the level of fear is off the scale. I’ve seen what irrational fear can do to people and it’s deeply worrying - people cling on to every piece of information / news dictated by the government no matter how knee jerk or ill-founded and people crave to blame each other. Indeed, I can see it on this thread.

The good news is that of the 6 people in my offices who have tested for this since March (and brought it home to their respective families) there has been zero illness beyond a headache. That is my real world experience of this.

 

Edit Edit

My trainee (who is on here) has got it and has texted in this morning. Two days feeling like he had a hangover and now nothing.

So that’s 7 people now with zero adverse effects.

Just saying; this is my real world experience.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Mungler

[ferguson_tom]

I think London is a bit of special case as the public transport network is so good and moving between areas is the norm, if they shut down one area its very easy to just jump on the tube and go to another. Also London is still a massive draw for people and has a big change over of people everyday from all over the UK.

We have been out and about still going for meals, weekends away etc and sorry but I wont have anyone say we are part of the problem. The government have done a great job of turning everyone against each other, this virus is predominantly spreading through hospitals, schools and work places but its easier to shift the blame on people going to the pub for a meal!

Its also very easy for the financially secure and retired to sit there and say everyone should stay at home as doing so doesn't really affect them long term this will just be a **** year, for the hundreds of thousands of people currently loosing their jobs and struggling to feed their families its a different story and the effects will last long after life is back to normal. 

 

BBC just released that there are 819,000 less people on company payrolls since the start of the pandemic. A number which is bound to increase especially when furlough ends in March and it doesnt take into account the self employed- many of which work in the arts, entertainment and events industry. That's a massive number of people! Or put it another way for every person that has died over 10 people have lost their jobs!

Edited December 15, 2020 by ferguson_tom

[grrclark]

22 minutes ago, ferguson_tom said:

I think London is a bit of special case as the public transport network is so good and moving between areas is the norm, if they shut down one area its very easy to just jump on the tube and go to another. Also London is still a massive draw for people and has a big change over of people everyday from all over the UK.

We have been out and about still going for meals, weekends away etc and sorry but I wont have anyone say we are part of the problem. The government have done a great job of turning everyone against each other, this virus is predominantly spreading through hospitals, schools and work places but its easier to shift the blame on people going to the pub for a meal!

Its also very easy for the financially secure and retired to sit there and say everyone should stay at home as doing so doesn't really affect them long term this will just be a **** year, for the hundreds of thousands of people currently loosing their jobs and struggling to feed their families its a different story and the effects will last long after life is back to normal. 

 

BBC just released that there are 819,000 less people on company payrolls since the start of the pandemic. A number which is bound to increase especially when furlough ends in March and it doesnt take into account the self employed- many of which work in the arts, entertainment and events industry. That's a massive number of people! Or put it another way for every person that has died over 10 people have lost their jobs!

Well said.  For far too many they have framed the argument as saving lives versus someone wanting to have a pint or a meal out, but that is far too simplistic and naïve.

Government action in denying the livelihood of millions is doing massive damage to lives all across this country and the fact that is so readily dismissed by so many is insulting, ignorant and offensive in the extreme.

[AVB]

39 minutes ago, ferguson_tom said:

I think London is a bit of special case as the public transport network is so good and moving between areas is the norm, if they shut down one area its very easy to just jump on the tube and go to another. Also London is still a massive draw for people and has a big change over of people everyday from all over the UK.

We have been out and about still going for meals, weekends away etc and sorry but I wont have anyone say we are part of the problem. The government have done a great job of turning everyone against each other, this virus is predominantly spreading through hospitals, schools and work places but its easier to shift the blame on people going to the pub for a meal!

Its also very easy for the financially secure and retired to sit there and say everyone should stay at home as doing so doesn't really affect them long term this will just be a **** year, for the hundreds of thousands of people currently loosing their jobs and struggling to feed their families its a different story and the effects will last long after life is back to normal. 

 

BBC just released that there are 819,000 less people on company payrolls since the start of the pandemic. A number which is bound to increase especially when furlough ends in March and it doesnt take into account the self employed- many of which work in the arts, entertainment and events industry. That's a massive number of people! Or put it another way for every person that has died over 10 people have lost their jobs!

👍

[discobob]

1 hour ago, ferguson_tom said:

I think London is a bit of special case as the public transport network is so good and moving between areas is the norm, if they shut down one area its very easy to just jump on the tube and go to another. Also London is still a massive draw for people and has a big change over of people everyday from all over the UK.

We have been out and about still going for meals, weekends away etc and sorry but I wont have anyone say we are part of the problem. The government have done a great job of turning everyone against each other, this virus is predominantly spreading through hospitals, schools and work places but its easier to shift the blame on people going to the pub for a meal!

Its also very easy for the financially secure and retired to sit there and say everyone should stay at home as doing so doesn't really affect them long term this will just be a **** year, for the hundreds of thousands of people currently loosing their jobs and struggling to feed their families its a different story and the effects will last long after life is back to normal. 

 

BBC just released that there are 819,000 less people on company payrolls since the start of the pandemic. A number which is bound to increase especially when furlough ends in March and it doesnt take into account the self employed- many of which work in the arts, entertainment and events industry. That's a massive number of people! Or put it another way for every person that has died over 10 people have lost their jobs!

Agreed!

Undoubtedly there is a problem that is affecting people - but I for one don't know anyone who has died from it. Meanwhile my kids Education is out the window (Year 13 and Year 11 - the exam years - and we are in Wales which has a recognized lower standard of education - but that is another discussion), we have lost a large chunk of money coming into the house (about £8k so far this year) because my wife is self employed and was not eligible for assistance, but we are still better off than a lot (at the moment). We have suffered from a close family member who tried to commit suicide in part to all of this - perhaps it was the straw but thankfully he is on the mend.

With this crisis, the people least affected are those that receive the most from the government - Pensioners, local government employees, Central Government employees (a bit of a broad brushstroke there for pensioners with private income - but they still get the state pension as well) and of course people who rely on benefits. 

Then there are the figures that are drawn from tests that numerous experts have said are inaccurate, Deaths that are allocated as Covid where the person could have been admitted for something else and picked it up in the Hospital (or asymptomatic) but would have died anyway, people where their underlying health meant that they did not have long to live. A death should only be assigned as a covid death when it was wholly attributable to it. Deaths with Covid should be reported separately however we have all heard the tales of families saying that Covid had been wrongly recorded on Death Certificates.

I do admit, I do not miss the commute to work but I am also getting stir crazy sat in my little office day after day, but I only done that 3 days a week.

[Guest cookoff013]

People at work spend upto 12 hours together. In the pub, a few hours.

They are both ways of transmitting C19.

 

[Walker570]

HahhhhhhhhHH!! We are all doomed!!!!!!!!