Tier 4

[mchughcb]

I have just spent almost 5 months of Stage 4 almost like Tier 4 but slightly more restrictive. For example 6 million of us were confined to our houses for 23 hours per day. That was relaxed to 22 hours per day. A curfew was in place and if you were on the streets after 8pm you could be fined $1600. You were limited to 5km travel from your house. If you were outside the 5km zone you could be fined $1600. The army was brought in and all major arterials road blocked. Anybody without papers and outside the metro road block zone was fined $5000. Anybody on the street without a mask was fined $200. Anybody who was not an essential worker with permit, outside their house and not shopping or exercising for 1 hour was fined $1600. Contact was limited to one person outside the house hold. Meetings of more than two people from different households in or outside were fined $1600. Children were blocked from school and only education was via zoom.

So with 800 odd people dead with Covid with an average age of 83, no women dead under the age of 50 over 6 odd months the cost of furlough and lost businesses, 250 - 500,000 unemployed and cost to tax payers of the furlough scheme of $75 Billion the virus was down to zero for a population of 6.4 million.

 

However our maximum was 700 new cases per day. So based on that experience if you are expecting to get to zero cases per day and not overwhelm the health system and the starting base is over 20,000 per day then I'd expect everyone who is not a essential worker to be locked up for at least 12 + months for 23 hours per day even with the vaccine being rolled out.

Now a lot of virtue signally people will go on about taking one for the team, country, humanity but I can assure everyone, being locked up for 23 hours a day for 5 months will test anybodies nerve, especially if you lose your job, your business, your bankruptcy, screaming kids in an apartment who now have PTSD meanwhile the banks still want their mortgage repayments.

 

Good luck.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Where is that?

[mchughcb]

Melbourne Victoria, Australia. Our politicians got their cue from Jacinda Arden NZ. She got her cue from Wuhan, China. So where do Wales and Eire get their cue from? Victoria and so the rot starts. Lemmings have steely resolve compared to insipid politicians.

I forgot to mention Tier 5, because that also happened in my neighbourhood where 3000 people were locked up to 14 days in their rooms under police guard. I remember people telling me its terrible what the CCP is doing to people in Wuhan China, locking them in their apartments, I said China? I thought you were talking about what the Victorian Socialist government is doing in Flemington, Melbourne.

And just for the people that can't do economics. It would have cost the 28,000 people x 14 days quarantine x $2500 which is payment for staying home and food =  $70M. But instead of offering tax free incentives and food to stay home and quarantine if you had a positive test, we decided to Tier 4 the entire state for a cost of $75 Billion.

You know it makes sense if you are the type of person who will not lose any income, classified as an essential worker who walks around with their "papers" and thinks money grows on trees.

 

[treetree]

19 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Well you got that one wrong didn't you? on both counts as it happens

Yes, happy to admit got the brexit call wrong.

Now  about covid; average age of death 82.4 years, only 388 people under 60 and without underlying health issues have died from covid. Ready to even countenance the idea the response has been over the top?

[ordnance]

18 minutes ago, treetree said:

Yes, happy to admit got the brexit call wrong.

Now  about covid; average age of death 82.4 years, only 388 people under 60 and without underlying health issues have died from covid. Ready to even countenance the idea the response has been over the top?

Lots of people have underlying health issues who would be alive if they didn't catch CV19,  do they not count. 

[oscarsdad]

2 hours ago, treetree said:

Yes, happy to admit got the brexit call wrong.

Now  about covid; average age of death 82.4 years, only 388 people under 60 and without underlying health issues have died from covid. Ready to even countenance the idea the response has been over the top?

Have you considered that those numbers are as a result of the response?

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, treetree said:

Yes, happy to admit got the brexit call wrong.

Now  about covid; average age of death 82.4 years, only 388 people under 60 and without underlying health issues have died from covid. Ready to even countenance the idea the response has been over the top?

Yes but you are only talking about deaths, long covid and permanent disability figures are yet unknown. My Stepdaughter says most of the really serious covid patients in her hospital are much younger than the sort of ages you are quoting, hopefully they will live.

Any disease that puts you in hospital on a ventilator and leaves you with kidney failure and damaged lungs for life, or having to lose your legs through blood clots is surely best avoided?.

Childhood strokes are up 600% (American figures) thought to be caused by blood clots in otherwise asymptomatic kids.

What price a brain damaged kid?

Its not about who lives and who dies. thats far too simplistic. The real damage is to the living. Look at Kate Garroway's husband. He survived but nobody is calling him lucky. He's little more than a vegetable.

My ex wife's cousin (in her early 40s) got it weeks ago and "recovered" after a week in hospital but she still lies in bed all day at home too weak to go anywhere and can't eat.

Its not like its just a bad cough for a few days and its over. For some people, the lucky ones it is 

Many of the so called underlying health issues are not in themselves life threatening let alone life limiting. The idea that people were on the way out anyway and the virus just brought on the inevitable by a few weeks is just wrong.

Many people have blood pressure, diabetes, or have survived cancer. Those are not death sentences anymore. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[ordnance]

Quote

Yes but you are only talking about deaths, long covid and permanent disability figures are yet unknown. My Stepdaughter says most of the really serious covid patients in her hospital are much younger than the sort of ages you are quoting, hopefully they will live.

True people tend to ignore or not look at the possible after effects CV19.

Organ damage caused by COVID-19 COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects - Mayo Clinic

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

• Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
• Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
• Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

[Mice!]

All people say is, but it's only the old dying!!

If it weren't for the precautions being taken I'm sure there would be many many more layed up at home feeling horrible for how many weeks? Leading to more hospitalizations and complications.

Let's say I get it, one in a family of four, then my wife gets it trying to look after me, who then looks after the kids when we feel like poo, can't leave the house, neither of us working.

We might feel rough then be back at it in a week or two, does anyone want to risk it?

I notice @treetree that you haven't commented on any threads where people have said they've caught it, I don't think anyone else has either who says it's not an issue and the government has gone too far.

[team tractor]

18 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Yes but you are only talking about deaths, long covid and permanent disability figures are yet unknown. My Stepdaughter says most of the really serious covid patients in her hospital are much younger than the sort of ages you are quoting, hopefully they will live.

Any disease that puts you in hospital on a ventilator and leaves you with kidney failure and damaged lungs for life, or having to lose your legs through blood clots is surely best avoided?.

Childhood strokes are up 600% (American figures) thought to be caused by blood clots in otherwise asymptomatic kids.

What price a brain damaged kid?

Its not about who lives and who dies. thats far too simplistic. The real damage is to the living. Look at Kate Garroway's husband. He survived but nobody is calling him lucky. He's little more than a vegetable.

My ex wife's cousin (in her early 40s) got it weeks ago and "recovered" after a week in hospital but she still lies in bed all day at home too weak to go anywhere and can't eat.

Its not like its just a bad cough for a few days and its over. For some people, the lucky ones it is 

Many of the so called underlying health issues are not in themselves life threatening let alone life limiting. The idea that people were on the way out anyway and the virus just brought on the inevitable by a few weeks is just wrong.

Many people have blood pressure, diabetes, or have survived cancer. Those are not death sentences anymore. 

Well said 

[JohnfromUK]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

does anyone want to risk it?

And risk is the key issue;  it IS a risk for ALL.

Risks are clearly higher for the various groups identified (older, underlying conditions, obesity etc.).

However there is a significant remaining risk for everyone - a low risk of fatality, and a slightly higher risk of some serious medical 'damage' - details as yet not fully understood, but some quite unpleasant possibilities.

The best way of avoiding those risks is to take sensible precautions to reduce the risk of catching it and behave carefully.

[Vince Green]

This is really scary, and its the British Medical Journal

 

 

Long covid: Damage to multiple organs presents in young, low risk patients | The BMJ

Edited December 29, 2020 by Vince Green