America

[GingerCat]

Heard on the earlier that lockdown has caused a 130 year low in the flu. Almost zero cases if it in some areas. I wonder what other illnesses have been lessened. 

[AVB]

8 hours ago, GingerCat said:

Heard on the earlier that lockdown has caused a 130 year low in the flu. Almost zero cases if it in some areas. I wonder what other illnesses have been lessened. 

The only illness you can die of nowadays is COVID. 

[mel b3]

8 hours ago, GingerCat said:

Heard on the earlier that lockdown has caused a 130 year low in the flu. Almost zero cases if it in some areas. I wonder what other illnesses have been lessened. 

I asked that question a few weeks ago . People washing hands properly and wearing masks etc , surely must have some kind of positive effect on other diseases /illnesses. I know that it won't balance out 100,000 plus covid deaths ,but it must have some benefits.

[GingerCat]

I'm a bit sceptical of the covid death rates really, it seems if you die within 28 days of having covid it counts. 

[udderlyoffroad]

54 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

People washing hands properly and wearing masks etc , surely must have some kind of positive effect on other diseases /illnesses.

Not necessarily; A bacteria sodden rag, held tightly against your face, with you re-inhaling said droplets that are apparently so deadly...

Yes, a trained medical professional, using a disposable mask properly ONCE, not touching their face, and so forth, works to contain the spread of microdroplets.

But johnny benefits monkey, literally wheezing his way through a many-times-worn mask, stashed in his crud-soaked pocket of his tracksuit...er, not so much.

 

9 hours ago, GingerCat said:

Heard on the earlier that lockdown has caused a 130 year low in the flu

How many times!!  Correlation is not causation!

 

6 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

I'm a bit sceptical of the covid death rates really

Suspect this is closer to the true cause of the lower flu rate.  Just marked down as 'rona.

 

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

I know that it won't balance out 100,000 plus covid deaths ,but it must have some benefits.

Your equation must consider those sacrificed who will die with otherwise-preventable illnesses as a result of lockdown, and suicides.

[mel b3]

47 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Not necessarily; A bacteria sodden rag, held tightly against your face, with you re-inhaling said droplets that are apparently so deadly...

Yes, a trained medical professional, using a disposable mask properly ONCE, not touching their face, and so forth, works to contain the spread of microdroplets.

But johnny benefits monkey, literally wheezing his way through a many-times-worn mask, stashed in his crud-soaked pocket of his tracksuit...er, not so much.

 

How many times!!  Correlation is not causation!

 

Suspect this is closer to the true cause of the lower flu rate.  Just marked down as 'rona.

 

Your equation must consider those sacrificed who will die with otherwise-preventable illnesses as a result of lockdown, and suicides.

People not using masks correctly can't be a good thing , but as time has gone on , most people are getting better educated about mask use , and while I totally agree that a mask isn't a complete suit of armour , it is at least another small shield to bring to the fight.

I would guess by now that all of us are only too aware of the nasty side effects of covid and lockdown , it's certainly not great , and none of us will know the real numbers of extra deaths for years ( if ever) , but those in power will be only too aware of the extra deaths as well , and somebody somewhere must have crunched the numbers , and chosen the least bad alternative. 

[udderlyoffroad]

15 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

somebody somewhere must have crunched the numbers , and chosen the least bad alternative. 

Brouhahaha

Every time a journalist actually asks a question about any sort of analysis actually having been done on whether a lockdown is worth the price (be it money, lives or both), all we get from the government is crickets.

 

15 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

and none of us will know the real numbers of extra deaths for years ( if ever)

Why on earth won't we?  The data will be there, all that has to happen is some riguours statistical analysis.  Cancer referral rates for breast cancer were 33% last year compared to 2019.  Just what will it take to make people realise this lockdown is killing us?

Finally, the Chancellor of the Exchequer is publicly questioning precisely what metric we need to come out of this lockdown - as the majority of the media sure as hell haven't.

It beggars belief that the finance minister has to publicly question his own government's policy on wholesale deletion of civil liberties before it enters the public discourse.

Edited February 4, 2021 by udderlyoffroad

[AVB]

25 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Brouhahaha

Every time a journalist actually asks a question about any sort of analysis actually having been done on whether a lockdown is worth the price (be it money, lives or both), all we get from the government is crickets.

 

Why on earth won't we?  The data will be there, all that has to happen is some riguours statistical analysis.  Cancer referral rates for breast cancer were 33% last year compared to 2019.  Just what will it take to make people realise this lockdown is killing us?

Finally, the Chancellor of the Exchequer is publicly questioning precisely what metric we need to come out of this lockdown - as the majority of the media sure as hell haven't.

It beggars belief that the finance minister has to publicly question his own government's policy on wholesale deletion of civil liberties before it enters the public discourse.

This is a sore subject for me.  My wife found a lump in her breast last week. It was about 12:00 on Monday. She was petrified. Rang the (NHS) GP who said “come and see us next week, we are busy, covid/vaccinations etc”. 

She saw a private GP at 3pm, was referred to a private consultant who saw her the next day, had mammogram and all clear. So within 24 hours she was put at ease. 

Who knows what that timeline would have been under the NHS and what of it had been more sinister? 

[mel b3]

18 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Brouhahaha

Every time a journalist actually asks a question about any sort of analysis actually having been done on whether a lockdown is worth the price (be it money, lives or both), all we get from the government is crickets.

 

Why on earth won't we?  The data will be there, all that has to happen is some riguours statistical analysis.  Cancer referral rates for breast cancer were 33% last year compared to 2019.  Just what will it take to make people realise this lockdown is killing us?

Finally, the Chancellor of the Exchequer is publicly questioning precisely what metric we need to come out of this lockdown - as the majority of the media sure as hell haven't.

It beggars belief that the finance minister has to publicly question his own government's policy on wholesale deletion of civil liberties before it enters the public discourse.

Nobody can deny that the whole lockdown business won't cost many many lives , in many different ways , but like I said , somebody somewhere will have made their best educated guess ,from the information that they had at the time(that information changes daily) , and chosen the least bad alternative for the country . It's a xxxxxxx bitter pill , but it's one that we all have to swallow until we have a better alternative .

I can only really liken it to world war two , with black out curtains/shorter pub serving hours/food rationing /conscription.  Nobody liked it , but the options were pretty limited.

2 minutes ago, AVB said:

This is a sore subject for me.  My wife found a lump in her breast last week. It was about 12:00 on Monday. She was petrified. Rang the (NHS) GP who said “come and see us next week, we are busy, covid/vaccinations etc”. 

She saw a private GP at 3pm, was referred to a private consultant who saw her the next day, had mammogram and all clear. So within 24 hours she was put at ease. 

Who knows what that timeline would have been under the NHS and what of it had been more sinister? 

I'm very glad that things worked out well for your wife.  My late wifes story didn't have a happy ending unfortunately,  but in her case , private treatment would have made little difference anyway.

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Nobody can deny that the whole lockdown business won't cost many many lives , in many different ways , but like I said , somebody somewhere will have made their best educated guess ,from the information that they had at the time(that information changes daily) , and chosen the least bad alternative for the country . It's a xxxxxxx bitter pill , but it's one that we all have to swallow until we have a better alternative .

I can only really liken it to world war two , with black out curtains/shorter pub serving hours/food rationing /conscription.  Nobody liked it , but the options were pretty limited.

The Government thinking = Do I have X deaths today or X + Y deaths at some point in the future when I might not be in power and therefore taking the easier, short term,  option.  

[mel b3]

2 minutes ago, AVB said:

The Government thinking = Do I have X deaths today or X + Y deaths at some point in the future when I might not be in power and therefore taking the easier, short term,  option.  

I don't doubt for one minute that that will be part of the equation.  It is after all said and done , politicians that make the final choice in most things . We can only hope that the medical professionals are steering the politicians to the right choices.

I could find the keeping my fingers crossed smiley 😕

[udderlyoffroad]

5 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

but like I said , somebody somewhere will have made their best educated guess ,from the information that they had at the time(that information changes daily) , and chosen the least bad alternative for the country 

Why will they have done?  There has been nothing published by government to support your argument. 

My theory is central government saw the media reports coming out of Italy and decided that this sort of thing must be avoided at all costs.

Currently, there's as much data to back up my theory as there is yours.

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

The Government thinking = Do I have X deaths today or X + Y deaths at some point in the future when I might not be in power and therefore taking the easier, short term,  option.  

Nail.  Head.

They're being advised by Neil Ferguson, for chrissakes, AFTER he was caught breaking his committees own rules, for a bit of how's-your-father.  The man who couldn't accurately model a **** following a sprout.

 

[mel b3]

8 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Why will they have done?  There has been nothing published by government to support your argument. 

My theory is central government saw the media reports coming out of Italy and decided that this sort of thing must be avoided at all costs.

Currently, there's as much data to back up my theory as there is yours.

 

 

One thing that I can be pretty sure of , is that the government and anyone involved , will not have deliberately chosen the worst option , that will deliberately cost lives . The options all smell of xxxx , they've just chosen the least smelly **** in the covid pot.

[udderlyoffroad]

49 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

One thing that I can be pretty sure of , is that the government and anyone involved , will not have deliberately chosen the worst option , that will deliberately cost lives . 

Blind faith is required for religious belief, it is generally a terrible idea for holding your government to account.  After all, countries that have a written constitution generally specifically make provisions to avoid this. 

If you are so sure of it, how come when journalists ask that question, we don't get answer?

 

53 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

The options all smell of xxxx , they've just chosen the least smelly **** in the covid pot the most politically expedient option.

Fixed it for you.

That's if they understand the options at all.  This could well be more accurate:

 

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Blind faith is required for religious belief, it is generally a terrible idea for holding your government to account.  After all, countries that have a written constitution generally specifically make provisions to avoid this. 

If you are so sure of it, how come when journalists ask that question, we don't get answer?

 

Fixed it for you.

That's if they understand the options at all.  This could well be more accurate:

 

I'm no Boris or tory fan boy , but I honestly believe that they will be doing their very best to get the best final outcome for the country as a whole . I'd also be pretty sure that many less scrupulous politiclans and their friends and relatives will come out of this with a big financial win , I'm not naive enough to think that they won't make the most of any situation.

I'd agree that the politicians never give a straight answer to the press ,most of the time I think that it's just politicians being slippery worms , but in this instance,  I think that they just don't know most of  the answers . Personally,  I'd much rather hear a politician say " we don't know , but were trying very hard to find the answers , and as soon as we do know , I'll tell you " , but that just not the way that the political types work sadly.

We also see the government getting slated for changing their minds on lockdown and tier systems etc . from my point of view , if it's going wrong , I want to see them change it as soon as possible , and change it to the best thing that they can at that particular time.

 

Having said all that , I voted for Tony Blair,  because I thought that he was a decent man . Just goes to show what I know .

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

I'm no Boris or tory fan boy , but I honestly believe that they will be doing their very best to get the best final outcome for the country as a whole

Youve got a lot more faith in them than I have 

 

6 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Having said all that , I voted for Tony Blair,  because I thought that he was a decent man . Just goes to show what I know .

And did you also think he was doing the best for the country too at the time ?

History and hindsight are marvellous things.

[AVB]

20 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Youve got a lot more faith in them than I have 

 

And did you also think he was doing the best for the country too at the time ?

History and hindsight are marvellous things.

I was a Boris fan and was a Tory fan boy but am of the opinion they have ****** it up big time. Would any anybody else have done better? Apart from me probably not. But I wouldn’t do it for the PM’s salary. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Would any anybody else have done better?

Probably not , but its like there is a conflict of interest between whats best for different sections of UK society, and the tory party.
Like you I supported BJ ect , mostly because of their Brexit stance , and the simple fact of the alternative being unfit to govern.

The 'crisis' is now pretty much over, and its time to put the economy back together and cut loose the SAGE mandarins.
As much as everyone has played 'listen to the science' and the idea of locking everyone up for years, unless we want to become a first world wasteland, we need to bring back normal, ASAP.

[mel b3]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Youve got a lot more faith in them than I have 

 

And did you also think he was doing the best for the country too at the time ?

History and hindsight are marvellous things.

i really do think that the government are doing their level best , ill be be the first to admit that they appear to have made a right pigs ear of some things(but not everything)  , but i really believe that theyre doing their best for the country . a lot of the things that make them look incompetent , really cant be helped (changes to lockdown etc ) , but they really have very limited options , and can only follow the advice of the medical professionals. 

ive seen the cost and effort that goes into getting a black plastic bin delivered to every house in a small borough , what to most people would seem like the simplest and easiest thing in the world , is actually a massive operation with massive costs . if you scale that up to giving an injection to every person in england (twice ) , its just mind blowing , and the difference between a rubbish bin , and a life saving injection that should save many thousands of lives  , is enough to make you xxxx your pants .

when i voted for tony blair , he seemed like a breath of fresh air , i honestly and truly believed that he was a good and decent man , and would be great for the country . guess what i think of him now 

 

ive just remembered how i watched the whole chinese covid event unfold on the news , i watched as the chinese body count grew , and as news reporters said that travelling for the chinese new year could spread it around the globe . i sat in my comfortable armchair and thought , thank god i live in the uk , our government would never let that happen here , theyd soon have the borders closed if they thought that we were at risk .  reckon i got that one a tad wrong 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by mel b3
to add stuff

[NoBodyImportant]

Saw a few of these videos and thought of this thread.  Apparently liberals are recording people shopping without mask and it’s now a popular liberal pastime.  And this is on par with what I have seen in NOrth, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, and Virginia 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by NoBodyImportant

[oowee]

On 04/02/2021 at 15:27, mel b3 said:

I'm no Boris or tory fan boy , but I honestly believe that they will be doing their very best to get the best final outcome for the country as a whole . I'd also be pretty sure that many less scrupulous politiclans and their friends and relatives will come out of this with a big financial win , I'm not naive enough to think that they won't make the most of any situation.

 

Of course they will be doing their best but they are simply not upto the task. Unfortunately at the election there was limited choice and there were many gullible sycophants that could not see past the cheasy grin and false promises. 

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Saw a few of these videos and thought of this thread.  Apparently liberals are recording people shopping without mask and it’s now a popular liberal pastime.  And this is on par with what I have seen in NOrth, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, and Virginia 

 

Just shows you get inconsiderate idiots every where. 

[mel b3]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

Of course they will be doing their best but they are simply not upto the task. Unfortunately at the election there was limited choice and there were many gullible sycophants that could not see past the cheasy grin and false promises. 

I'll be the first to admit that the government aren't seeming to get everything right , and in some instances they don't seem up to the task , but in all honesty,  who would be able to get covid right ?, each time that they seem to be getting things under control , covid goes off in a different direction ( other strains etc ) , the government has no choice but to follow, it makes them look incompetent at times , but they don't have many options , and they're doing that whilst trying to please everyone in the country . The fact that they're managing to upset everyone , probably means that they're getting it about right.

I'll completely agree about the limited choices at the election . I'm sort of a traditional labour voter , but I'm guided more by my social conscience than any political leanings,  and I'd rather vote for the party that I think would be better for the country , rather than the party that might be better for me personally.  I voted for Boris and his tory clan, purely because I thought that Brexit was best for the country .  The thought of voting for the likes of Jeremy Corbyn,  and Diane Abbott , still makes me shudder. Can you imagine if we had our Jeremy running the country right now , we'd all be getting excited at the prospect that we might be getting our first covid jab by 2025 , just as soon as every other country in the EU had gotten theirs , and those of us that were left , wouldn't really mind that we had to stand in front of the doctor and sing the EU national anthem as they jabbed us .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I have searched and searched and cannot find a queue of people waiting to take over, there are loads of people ready to knock the Governments efforts and as always hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Captain Hindsight (Starmer) and his party are such a weak opposition, they really should just sit back and let Boris and Co get on with it.

[Lloyd90]

On 04/02/2021 at 11:56, AVB said:

This is a sore subject for me.  My wife found a lump in her breast last week. It was about 12:00 on Monday. She was petrified. Rang the (NHS) GP who said “come and see us next week, we are busy, covid/vaccinations etc”. 

She saw a private GP at 3pm, was referred to a private consultant who saw her the next day, had mammogram and all clear. So within 24 hours she was put at ease. 

Who knows what that timeline would have been under the NHS and what of it had been more sinister? 

A one week wait for that kind of review would have surely been normal even when we didn’t have Covid going on? 
 

The mammogram maybe would have taken a lot longer.

 

Youd have never got that sort of fast turn around on the NHS though even in ‘normal times’.