Gov Restrictions Announcement 14/06/21

[ditchman]

20 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Didn't bother me a bit. Just went to prove the Government have turned a large number of the population into scaredy cats.

its a damned good job she wasnt out walking a squirrell...............the result would be headline news..

[WalkedUp]

🤣🤣🤣

[udderlyoffroad]

37 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I am not that fussed about this one way or the other as I can see both the economic need to open up and also the humanitarian need to protect our brethren.

Which is...who?  The vulnerable are vaccinated!  It is effective against the variants.

No the continuing lockdown is because of the Public Health officials' addiction to power and Boris' weakness and his refusal to stand up them.  Even Theresa May was talking more sense in Parliament yesterday. 

It won't be another month, it will be forever, until the British public grows a spine.

It baffles me how you "I'm alright Jack" lot are going to cope when things do turn ugly, but one thing's for sure, you'll all be on here ******* and moaning that this is unacceptable and lockdown should've been lifted earlier.  But still, why do I care about what strangers on the internet think?  I've got a head to keep down, because I value my tickets.

 

[WalkedUp]

I’m not double vaccinated, let’s wait until at least me and my work force are fully vaccinated. One man Ivknow in his 30s, electrician, football player and gym addict. He ended up on a ventilator last year and still can’t exercise. His teeth have all snapped and his lungs are scarred. There is a waiting list for this vaccine. Those wanting to open up better have declined their vaccine to allow others to jump up the queue. 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m not double vaccinated, let’s wait until at least me and my work force are fully vaccinated

Oh right, sorry how foolish of me.  How could your workforce not be the basis of national policy?

More people were killed on the roads today than died from Covid.

Once again; the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Life is just an endless succession of managed risks.  You thought nothing of jumping in your car today, but you still think we should live like this?

And before you give me the airbags, seatbelts and highway code argument; we didn't mandate cars were retrofitted with seatbelts, why should we insisted everyone is 'retrofitted' with vaccines before we're allowed back on the road?

8 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

There is a waiting list for this vaccine.

I see your waiting list for a vaccine and raise you  the 5million people now on a waiting list for NHS treatment! 

8 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Those wanting to open up better have declined their vaccine to allow others to jump up the queue. 

Total straw man argument and you know it.  If the take-up rate for the vaccine had been lower by concerned souls wanting to ensure the vulnerable were 'double vaccinated' first, they would've used that as an argument against us opening up.

[WalkedUp]

I have said it is a hard decision, there are points on both sides, not gone off on one side blindly.... As a neutral give me some balanced consideration and I’ll be drawn to take part. Listening to any echo chamber of a thin, one dimensional views is tedious and persuades the likes of me away from agreement with your cause.

I’m always happy to admit when I am wrong. Let’s review this random guessing from all sides in a year’s time and see who’s paranoia or optimism best fitted the course of events.

[Mice!]

I didn't see all of the announcement tonight as I was getting ready for work,  but I wasn't expecting anything other than a delay.

Going off the government website the above areas are seeing an increase in cases, so how can government just ignore it and say crack on?

Not many people are dying from covid which is great, they said on the news today that 2/3rds of people being admitted to hospital with Covid haven't had the vaccine,  which means some are still getting it despite the vaccine,  they may be old, vulnerable or have health issues I've no idea but that's why we are still wearing masks. 

I've actually been caught out twice recently because of the nice weather,  shorts and T-shirt heading into a shop when I've realised I haven't picked up my mask, not a big deal you just go back and grab it.

Its certainly far from clear, I can eat out, go the pub or pictures ( I think) play rugby go shopping or meet up with friends and family, it's just a case of wearing a mask and numbers may be limited. 

Hopefully people needing access to treatments start getting it asap.

[udderlyoffroad]

 

16 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

As a neutral give me some balanced consideration

I've just given it to you: what about the life being a succession of managed risks argument?

You're now more likely to die from any number of things than Covid, yet this is what we're sacrificing everything else for? 

By the way, the "we'll see who's right in hindsight" just isn't an acceptable metric when we're dealing with peoples' lives being cut short.  It is of no comfort to me if I'm proven right in future.

As for best fitting the course of events, we are 14months into '3 weeks to flatten the curve'  - just what about the last year's direction of travel, viz. endless 'just a few more weeks' convinces you that anything will ever change?

The public health officials are addicted to power, and we all know what the only cure for addiction is: massive cold turkey. 

This doesn't mean dangling them from lamp posts, before anyone thinks I'm implying that.

Primum non nocere indeed.

[udderlyoffroad]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Its certainly far from clear, I can eat out, go the pub or pictures ( I think) play rugby go shopping or meet up with friends and family, it's just a case of wearing a mask and numbers may be limited. 

You've said this ridiculous statement before, and I've responded to it before, pointing out how breathtakingly at odds with living it a free country it is.

TLDR: You're happy to live like this, I'm not.  And existing like this brings  with it consequences, economic, mental and physical health.

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Going off the government website the above areas are seeing an increase in cases, so how can government just ignore it and say crack on?

Do you want answer to this question or is it rhetorical?

Edited June 14, 2021 by udderlyoffroad

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You've said this ridiculous statement before, and I've responded to it before, pointing out how breathtakingly at odds with living it a free country it is.

TLDR: You're happy to live like this, I'm not.

If you say so, but with the current restrictions there isn't much you can't do,  as far as I'm concerned I'm being asked to wear a mask when indoors, that really isn't a big issue,  if it was I'd be wearing a lanyard. 

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Do you want answer to this question or is it rhetorical?

Go for it, cases are rising in all the above areas, apparently at a higher rate than the second wave I think they said,  so the likes of me in my 40s will be offered the second jab earlier and the Gov are still trying to push the vaccine in areas with high numbers of the Indian variant.

I had a text today off NHS saying you can get the Pfizer vaccine now in Preston with no appointment just turn up, this isn't being done because everything is under control.

I'm guessing this is being rolled out all across areas seeing an increase in cases?

[udderlyoffroad]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

,  as far as I'm concerned I'm being asked to wear a mask when indoors, that really isn't a big issue,  if it was I'd be wearing a lanyard. 

Incidentally, we weren't talking about masks, we're discussing other on-going restrictions to our personal liberty which is negatively affecting our economy, our physical and mental health, and our kids' development.

You and I have discussed masks before, and you could barely acknowledge my points, let alone discuss them, so I shan't waste my time now.

The good news is advice in the US has changed their advice on masks at the federal level, and where they lead....

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I had a text today off NHS saying you can get the Pfizer vaccine now in Preston with no appointment just turn up, this isn't being done because everything is under control.

Ok, we're done; you take your lived experience, and extrapolate that to it being the basis of informing national policy.  That's not an argument.

"The minimum age you can buy cigarettes is 18, my 14 year old doesn't know that you don't smoke the filter, the minimum age is 18 for a reason"

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Incidentally, we weren't talking about masks, we're discussing other on-going restrictions to our personal liberty which is negatively affecting our economy, our physical and mental health, and our kids' development.

The only restriction currently affecting me and my family is wearing a mask and social distancing,  schools are open and the kids are happy. 

I met up with a group of lads at the weekend to play rugby and I've not seen them during the last year because of the lockdowns,  I knew one of them worked on the rigs so asked him if he had been back out, he hadn't but by his choice because he would have had to go paye and didn't want to. It was great catching up.

People keep posting about the economy and mental health being the big issues,  but when everyone you know is working and happy getting on with life then it's hard to see what these restrictions to personal liberties are, as soon as people could take part in sport and go the pub most lads I know were happy getting on with things.

So what are these big restrictions to our personal liberties that I've apparently missed, that are so drastic that only the usual 4 or 5 people post about it, but wouldn't be willing to cause a fuss in case they lost their tickets.

Unless you have family or close friends waiting on treatment that has been stopped because of Covid then things could be far worse.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Unless you have family or close friends waiting on treatment that has been stopped because of Covid then things could be far worse.

Oh well that’s alright then? You and yours are ok, so everything’s hunky dory?

you selfish...

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Oh well that’s alright then? You and yours are ok, so everything’s hunky dory?

you selfish...

Not what I said though was it, I said everyone I know is working,  happy and getting on with things, as far as I know, 4 rugby teams all happy playing at the weekend,  plus many more playing around the country. 

People happy they could meet up and have a birthday party,  friends and family getting together for the first time this year most likely. 

23 minutes ago, Mice! said:

So what are these big restrictions to our personal liberties that I've apparently missed, that are so drastic that only the usual 4 or 5 people post about it, but wouldn't be willing to cause a fuss in case they lost their tickets.

That's why I asked this, what is currently stopping people getting on with their lives?

[Pangolin]

The decision to extend is a political decision, not a health one, they know people will die but they want to be seen to be doing the right thing by the majority of the pant ****ting public.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Pangolin

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

The decision to extend is a political decision, not a health one, they know people will die but they want to be seen to be doing the right thing by the majority of the pant ******** public.

Very true. 

[bruno22rf]

Out for a celebration dinner Saturday evening, rules were, mask on whilst walking to and from the table but as soon as you sat down you could take it off ( I was so close to the next diner that I could smell the rum in his drink) so from this I think it's fair to deduce that if we all sit down we are safe. Also made me chuckle to see that the government covid test kit is made in China.

[udderlyoffroad]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

happy and getting on with things, as far as I know, 4 rugby teams all happy playing at the weekend,  plus many more playing around the country. 

Just as you couldn't give less of a toss about my freedoms, I couldn't care less that you want to run around a pitch groping other men chasing an egg-shaped inflated bladder.  I hope you're all wearing masks?  Can't think of a worse thing than a rugby scrum for inhaling each other's phlegm....could it be that the rules don't make much sense?

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

Not what I said though was it, I said everyone I know is working

You don't know anyone who works in hospitality then?  The UK's fifth biggest employer?  Travel?   The impending economic ****storm will be huge, and doubtless the lockdown enthusiasts on here will all be wise after the fact.

 

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

so from this I think it's fair to deduce that if we all sit down we are safe.

Vertical drinking doncha know?  Deadly according to our public health lords and masters.  Fortunately this pandemic has enabled us to ban it.

[Walker570]

We all take risks every day. Have a friend mid 20s who is allergic to peanuts. He lives with it and takes necessary precautions knowing failure to do so would likely kill him.  Same here, if you have doubts then continue walking around with masks and bottles of cleanser but don't force the rest of us to do the same.

[Guest cookoff013]

12 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m not double vaccinated, let’s wait until at least me and my work force are fully vaccinated. One man Ivknow in his 30s, electrician, football player and gym addict. He ended up on a ventilator last year and still can’t exercise. His teeth have all snapped and his lungs are scarred. There is a waiting list for this vaccine. Those wanting to open up better have declined their vaccine to allow others to jump up the queue. 

Thats awful. I knew someone who took a year to recover.

[WalkedUp]

If your friend makes a mistake then he sadly suffers the consequence, not so for CV-19. If a restaurant etc gives him a curry that accidentally has peanuts in and kills him, they are liable for prosecution. Perhaps the law should be that you don’t have to wear a face mask but if you pass an infection on then it is similar consequences to passing AIDs on through failure to wear a condom?

With reference to road deaths. There are many laws to reduce the risk of road deaths. I want to drive at 80mph through a village centre, surely as some eegit free man of the land I should be able to do so? 

[Rewulf]

The bit I always find funny is when the most vocal critics of the tory government, are more than happy to support its most draconian covid measures.
These are likely the same people walking their dogs, miles from anyone, or driving their car ..alone, with a mask on !
The issue isnt about what you personally consider is the safest form of conduct for yourself, its total mindless compliance, with no rational thought about why you are doing it.

Its that trust in authority , to look after your best interests and health, which is at odds with roughly half the voting populations political mindset.
'I hate Boris, hes a liar and unfit to lead this country'   but when Boris tells you to wear your mask, and dont go out, you do as told...and then some.

Not only obeying without question , but telling others to obey also ?

One could also question why SAGE has become all powerful too, how have these nameless 'experts' become the driving force behind 'the new normal' ?
Quite simply, its because they are the scapegoats for when this all goes tits up.
They are not part of the government, so can be cast aside as the cause of all our evils when the time comes.
Plausible deniability, as has been seen recently , as Boris has 'struggled' with various lockdown positions, lovingly confirmed by Mr Cummings.
Whilst SAGE frontmen have finally realised that they may be being set up for the fall ?

Until then , the government , media and SAGE bring out nonsensical and conflicting advice, to keep the general populace divided , and a virtual media blackout on any protests on restrictions.
What they wont be able to contain , is the aftermath of massively increased cancer and vascular death, suicide and rotten teeth.
The economic damage will take centre stage though,  but at least the rest of the world (except China) will be in the same boat.

This brave new (broken) world will need (or be made to have) a strong 'unified' leadership, something along the lines of the one world government the globalists tell us isnt going to happen, but was likely discussed at length around the table in Cornwall recently.
They will not need to ask your consent for these things, as you have already given it with your compliance.

[Mice!]

7 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

Also made me chuckle to see that the government covid test kit is made in China.

Along with PPE, China has made a fortune off this.

6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Just as you couldn't give less of a toss about my freedoms, I couldn't care less that you want to run around a pitch groping other men chasing an egg-shaped inflated bladder.  I hope you're all wearing masks?  Can't think of a worse thing than a rugby scrum for inhaling each other's phlegm....could it be that the rules don't make much sense?

Scrums are currently banned because of.....

But we can tackle,  but only 4 in a changing room, all very strange. For what what its worth I didn't bother changing,  just had a beer, a chat, a laugh and headed home.

6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You don't know anyone who works in hospitality then?  The UK's fifth biggest employer?  Travel?   The impending economic ****storm will be huge, and doubtless the lockdown enthusiasts on here will all be wise after the fact

Not a single person, nor anyone in theatre, I don't doubt those sectors are struggling,  but they have also had loads of support, probably more than any financial crisis in history. 

And you still haven't said what you can't do under the current draconian rules,  but I doubt you will.

 

[Rewulf]

36 minutes ago, Mice! said:

And you still haven't said what you can't do under the current draconian rules,  but I doubt you will.

Ill give you a few.

Go on a foreign holiday of your choice.

Have a large wedding.

Have a large funeral.

Celebrate a large party indoors (daughter has just had her 21st cancelled at a cocktail bar)

Go to a dentist for non emergency check up.

Go and see your doctor, unless its really serious.

I could go on , but Im sure you get the drift ?
Yet you can go to a football/sports event with no real limits, or music event, Download is on this weekend , with tens of thousands going, but Im sure theyll all be tested and wearing masks  NOT.
The 'rules' are a joke, and over the past few weeks, Ive noticed increasing numbers ignoring the masks in shops rule, with no one trying to enforce it.
As much as some relish being treated like a brainless sheep, others have had enough.

No doubt these people will be blamed for the Nth wave (I forget which wave we are on) as long as they arent POC , because we dont like to mention that do we ? Despite the fact , it seems they are those who are the least likely to follow the rules.
I might start following their example, see if I dont get challenged too.

[udderlyoffroad]

6 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

If your friend makes a mistake then he sadly suffers the consequence, not so for CV-19. If a restaurant etc gives him a curry that accidentally has peanuts in and kills him, they are liable for prosecution. Perhaps the law should be that you don’t have to wear a face mask but if you pass an infection on then it is similar consequences to passing AIDs on through failure to wear a condom?

With reference to road deaths. There are many laws to reduce the risk of road deaths. I want to drive at 80mph through a village centre, surely as some eegit free man of the land I should be able to do so? 

Wow you've managed to cram two incredibly flawed analogies into one post, and neither of them hold up to even a passing glance at the details. 

1. you don't 'pass on AIDS' - it is possible to contract HIV through unprotected sex.
2. As far as I'm aware there is no law making this somehow a criminal offence. 
3. There have been people convicted of GBH for maliciously infecting sexual partners with HIV.
4. I see no reason that this existing law couldn't be applied to people maliciously infecting someone with COVID (IANAL as they say).
5. That is very different from someone not wearing a mask and subsequently someone else getting ill. 
6. Even if a law were somehow enacted to criminalise this, our inconvenient notion of proving guilt beyond all reasonable doubt would make such a law laughable.

As for your road deaths/speed limits analogy - Were you bunking off school the day they covered this?   To live in a free society there must be just laws.  Our current situation finds us neither in a free society, nor subject to just laws.

Plenty of people are killed going below the speed limit, but driving too fast for the conditions, and/or forgetting about Newton's laws, specifically with respect to trees.  Risk assessment indeed.

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

but I doubt you will.

@Rewulf beat me to it.  (Braces for "I don't care, I'm alright Jack")

 

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Go and see your doctor, unless its really serious.

This last one is important, even if you dismiss all the others out of hand.  We each pay thousands in tax every month, and the NHS has effectively suspended normal GP services.  No other developed nation in the world is doing this.