That was a great success then........

[TIGHTCHOKE]

On 13/01/2022 at 21:57, Mungler said:

Down to 5 days now. They’re still making it up as they go along but it is all fizzing out now.

I still can’t for the life of me work out what’s going on with Wales and Scotland.

I wonder what the history books will make of this 😆

The "holier than thou" leadership of both Scotland and Wales seem to need to be doing more than the mother country.

Edited January 16, 2022 by TIGHTCHOKE
SYNTAX!

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The "holier than thou" leadership of both Scotland and Wales seem to need to be doing more than the mother country.

But it’s over, right?

Turned out Delta was a bit nasty for anyone over 65 and on a wobbly wicket but along comes the highly highly transmissible omicron (namely a common cold) and everyone gets it but with no serious affects. Getting Omicron stops you from getting Delta and somewhere in the middle of all of that there’s the vaccine.

I think we can now all see that it’s been an over egged **** show fuelled by self serving professional ghouls and transmission statisticians who were so wide of the mark on their numbers we’d have been better off using a 9 year old on the transmission math.

I reckon I know 100 people who have had ‘it’ including people in their 70’s and 80’s with cancer, copd and meso but I still don’t know anyone who has died of it.

Wait till everyone else round the world catches up; it will be soon enough as the covid bill is now going to land and our children’s children will be paying for this nonsense.

 

[Gordon R]

I seriously doubt that we will ever get genuine statistics about the real impact of Covid, compared to flu. Despite deaths - which any sane person would regret - figures seem to be plucked out of thin air, with little regard to the normal death rate.

Professor Lockdown - who seemed to be discredited very early on - still pops up and people listen.

Emperor's new clothes springs to mind.

I suspect the only genuine figures which will ever surface, will be about the cost for this and future generations.

[Mungler]

25 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I seriously doubt that we will ever get genuine statistics about the real impact of Covid, compared to flu. Despite deaths - which any sane person would regret - figures seem to be plucked out of thin air, with little regard to the normal death rate.

Professor Lockdown - who seemed to be discredited very early on - still pops up and people listen.

Emperor's new clothes springs to mind.

I suspect the only genuine figures which will ever surface, will be about the cost for this and future generations.

It is emperor’s clothes and once you push the snowball down off the top off the cliff and it gets bigger and faster, it becomes harder to stop. 

The only way to get to the bottom of the stats is with your own eyes and ears and broader averages over years and that’s this graph - show me where the ‘bodies piled in the street Spanish flu type pandemic’ is, and which we were told was coming by the BBC? 

Any spike in mortality affecting the over 80’s (which is where this ‘pandemic’ has hit) is explained by the dry tinder effect - soft winters, light flu seasons over a few years and it looks increasingly like Covid carried away those who were waiting to be taken. And that is what the stats are telling us. 

As for everything else that has followed and has been done to us (and to our children and our children’s children) and all in the name of covid, has been truly chilling to witness. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mungler

[Rewulf]

I noticed an interesting start the other day concerning recorded covid deaths. 

Ireland, population 5 million, covid deaths 5000, rate.0.1 %

UK pop 67000000, deaths 150000 rate 0.25 %

I know the demographic is slightly different, but I believe its more to do with HOW deaths are recorded. 

 

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I noticed an interesting start the other day concerning recorded covid deaths. 

Ireland, population 5 million, covid deaths 5000, rate.0.1 %

UK pop 67000000, deaths 150000 rate 0.25 %

I know the demographic is slightly different, but I believe its more to do with HOW deaths are recorded. 

 

HOW deaths are recorded is a massive contention and the ‘died of’ and ‘died with’ debate.

What did it for me was the BBC trumpeting Captain Tom dying of Covid - he died of being 100 years old not Covid 😆

What also troubles me is all the medical people I’ve spoken to say it will be really easy to get the death data and make the determination between ‘of’ and ‘with’. Apparently that data is lying around but it’s being sat on.

I’d start by excluding anyone over 90 years of age - seriously, you get to 90 and every day is a gift - you’ve beaten the odds, you’ve beaten the curve and national average age of death and you are in the proverbial waiting room.

You’re also not going to be leading the life of someone in their teens, or likely to get married, or expecting a promotion at work, buying a house, going inter-railing round Europe etc. The remainder of your life will revolve round mealtimes, the TV, your favourite chair and maybe a walk round the garden and a trip to see the GP. 

Failing all else, the answer has to be in the annual national averages data - see graph above.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mungler

[ordnance]

Quote

What did it for me was the BBC trumpeting Captain Tom dying of Covid - he died of being 100 years old not Covid.

And if he had not got Covid he could still be alive, so it was Covid that killed him. Should they just ignore that in the cause of death, and put down old age. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

And if he had not got Covid he could still be alive, so it was Covid that killed him. Should they just ignore that in the cause of death, and put down old age. 

Even Capt Tom's death cert says died WITH  covid , he didn't even have it until he went into hospital with pneumonia,  so caught it in hospital , so did the NHS  kill him ?

He was discharged , battled pneumonia for 9 days before being readmitted and dying.

But if you want to believe it was covid that killed him, and not old age and pneumonia,  fill ya boots.

[Scully]

33 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Even Capt Tom's death cert says died WITH  covid , he didn't even have it until he went into hospital with pneumonia,  so caught it in hospital , so did the NHS  kill him ?

He was discharged , battled pneumonia for 9 days before being readmitted and dying.

But if you want to believe it was covid that killed him, and not old age and pneumonia,  fill ya boots.

This. A friends 94 year old mother died in hospital where she caught covid after being submitted for a routine small scale op’. She could have contracted flu which may well have killed her also. 
She was a great great grandmother. None of her six children feel bitter about it. As one of them said, ‘ she was 94, if I live as long I’ll be happy.’ 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Scully

[ordnance]

58 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Even Capt Tom's death cert says died WITH  covid , he didn't even have it until he went into hospital with pneumonia,  so caught it in hospital , so did the NHS  kill him ?

He was discharged , battled pneumonia for 9 days before being readmitted and dying.

But if you want to believe it was covid that killed him, and not old age and pneumonia,  fill ya boots.

No, i am sure they made up the cause of death   If he caught pneumonia or Covid in hospital then it would be pneumonia or Covid that killed him, not the NHS.

 

[enfieldspares]

Astra Zenecca has given me a heart condition. Myocarditis. Such that my GP has told me in the strongest terms that I must not do any work until a full cardiac investigation is done. That...on Johnson's NHS...will be on March 28 2022...by telephone! My prediction is that in fact in five or ten years time more people will have died from side effects of A-Z than from covid and it will have become the thalidomide and Factor VIII of the 2030s but writ large with many many more harms or deaths than either of those.

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Astra Zenecca has given me a heart condition. Myocarditis. Such that my GP has told me in the strongest terms that I must not do any work until a full cardiac investigation is done. That...on Johnson's NHS...will be on March 28 2022...by telephone! My prediction is that in fact in five or ten years time more people will have died from side effects of A-Z than from covid and it will have become the thalidomide and Factor VIII of the 2030s but writ large with many many more harms or deaths than either of those.

That’s very unfortunate indeed, but if your condition was life threatening you would be seen very soon. 

[Rewulf]

55 minutes ago, ordnance said:

No, i am sure they made up the cause of death   If he caught pneumonia or Covid in hospital then it would be pneumonia or Covid that killed him, not the NHS.

 

You don't think I was serious about the NHS killing him do you ?

Cause of death was likely cardiac arrest,  caused by pneumonia,  he was tested positive for covid the day he came out of hospital. They still sent him home.

But I suppose he's just another covid death statistic 

[Mungler]

5 hours ago, ordnance said:

And if he had not got Covid he could still be alive, so it was Covid that killed him. Should they just ignore that in the cause of death, and put down old age. 

Really?

We’re using and incorporating the covid death stats for 100 year olds in all the fancying modelling which put us ‘all’ in lockdown / lockdown restrictions and on a path to us all (and that includes our children and our children’s children) being much poorer (and not just in monetary terms).

I follow an economist on line who said at the early stages of this ‘pandemic’ that the poverty that will be caused by covid lockdowns and restrictions will kill far more people than covid itself - when he wrote that I didn’t fully understand what he was getting at and now I do.

And when everyone moans when public services are cancelled / curtailed, hospitals are shut, the armed forces and emergency services are cut, government grants evaporate, pensions are reduced and tax (income, VAT, NI) go up - as all of these things will and must do, just flip back to this thread. 

Edit:

And what still baffles me is that there are still some people demanding more lock downs at this juncture. Those people are either insane or now so full of fear that there is no hope of rationalising with them - just no chance of getting through to them at all. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mungler

[39TDS]

2 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Astra Zenecca has given me a heart condition. Myocarditis. Such that my GP has told me in the strongest terms that I must not do any work until a full cardiac investigation is done. That...on Johnson's NHS...will be on March 28 2022...by telephone! My prediction is that in fact in five or ten years time more people will have died from side effects of A-Z than from covid and it will have become the thalidomide and Factor VIII of the 2030s but writ large with many many more harms or deaths than either of those.

I think late diagnosis of various ailments will result in more deaths than covid because most people cannot access the NHS, especially via a GP. 

[Gordon R]

Mungler - you might just be banging your head on a brick wall, but I will join you in the head banging.

There has to come a point when we just get on with life and live with Covid. I believe that we have reached that point. I am sure there will be many who disagree and ask for proof, but there are no reliable facts one way or the other. 

People need to open their eyes about the effect on the economy and the chaos in the NHS, transport etc. My daughter has a couple of businesses where Covid returns have to be made to the local council. The council haven't got a clue why they are recording them and are doing nothing with them at all. It is just a form filling exercise, which causes a lot of work.

Covid has become an industry all of its own.

[Mungler]

14 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Mungler - you might just be banging your head on a brick wall, but I will join you in the head banging.

There has to come a point when we just get on with life and live with Covid. I believe that we have reached that point. I am sure there will be many who disagree and ask for proof, but there are no reliable facts one way or the other. 

People need to open their eyes about the effect on the economy and the chaos in the NHS, transport etc. My daughter has a couple of businesses where Covid returns have to be made to the local council. The council haven't got a clue why they are recording them and are doing nothing with them at all. It is just a form filling exercise, which causes a lot of work.

Covid has become an industry all of its own.

100% agree. I’ve run out of jabs to take and so that’s the end of it for me as far as I’m concerned. Indeed, if the jabs work, well that’s brilliant, but if they don’t am I prepared to lockdown, stare economic ruin in the face and become a hermit and nail my front door shut and demand that everyone else does the same?

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mungler

[Gordon R]

A lot depends on whether you nail the door from the inside or the outside.

[udderlyoffroad]

10 hours ago, Mungler said:

And what still baffles me is that there are still some people demanding more lock downs at this juncture. Those people are either insane or now so full of fear that there is no hope of rationalising with them - just no chance of getting through to them at all. 

There is some hope that finally parts of the population are starting to 'get it' - that lockdowns demonstrably don't work.  Even the 'if only everybody complied like I did' types are beginning to see the flaw in that particular argument.

What baffles me is the subset of people who are outraged at **** ups in Downing Street, and that's caused them to change their mind.  At  COP26, no delegates masked up, weren't required to test prior to arrival, and so forth, and did so quite openly in front of the world's media.  That seemingly went by unnoticed.

Frankly the biggest danger to the UK returning to some form of normality at this point is outraged Tory back benchers replacing Boris with someone who turns out to be more hard core. Do we trust arch-remainer Truss not to be nobbled by 'the blob'?

Edited January 17, 2022 by udderlyoffroad

[henry d]

On 16/01/2022 at 14:44, Mungler said:

The remainder of your life will revolve round mealtimes, the TV, your favourite chair and maybe a walk round the gar

Tell that to Tony Bowman, in fact ask him for a race!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leeds-59985671

Yeah I know, he's a sprightly 86

Edited January 17, 2022 by henry d

[Mungler]

35 minutes ago, henry d said:

Tell that to Tony Bowman, in fact ask him for a race!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leeds-59985671

Yeah I know, he's a sprightly 86

 

Well, he singularly is doing very well and is of course a rather rare statistical anomaly, which whilst rare, is not unheard of in a population of 70,000,000 people.

From the ONS: Median life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2018 to 2020 was 79.0 years for males and 82.9 years for females.

So, broadly, if you're a bloke, every day after 79 remains a gift and whilst I hope everyone who is 79 and who is reading this makes the tonne and more, realistically you won't be running any marathons. Indeed, to underline the point, don't take my word for it, phone up a life insurance company and pretend to be a 21 year old non smoker looking for £1m of cover, and then phone up again and pretend to be an 86 year old non smoker (and you can even add in that you're a marathon runner if you like) and we can then compare and contrast the quotes 🙂

 

 

[Rewulf]

42 minutes ago, henry d said:

Tell that to Tony Bowman, in fact ask him for a race!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leeds-59985671

Yeah I know, he's a sprightly 86

'Despite having two heart attacks and suffering heart failure three times, Mr Bowman holds numerous records for sprinting in his age bracket.'

Very sprightly , sounds like a man with a death wish 

[Scully]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

'Despite having two heart attacks and suffering heart failure three times, Mr Bowman holds numerous records for sprinting in his age bracket.'

Very sprightly , sounds like a man with a death wish 

Indeed. Talking to an old boy from Alston many moons ago, he was 88 at the time and still smoking the same Capstan Navy Cut fags he’d smoked since his teens. He told me his doctor had asked him if he’d ever considered stopping smoking. He replied that at his age they might be the only things keeping him going! 🙂

[ordnance]

Quote

 

Really?

We’re using and incorporating the covid death stats for 100 year olds in all the fancying modelling which put us ‘all’ in lockdown / lockdown restrictions and on a path to us all (and that includes our children and our children’s children) being much poorer (and not just in monetary terms).

 

Should they just ignore people that died of Covid over a certain age and put their death down to something else, I am sure the vast abundance of internet experts coming out of the woodwork would have handled it differently. 

[henry d]

Absolutely guys. My grandmother was in her late 80's and while I was visiting asked if I wanted some lunch, I said I had eaten. She then took a dollop of lard out of her deep fat fryer and proceeded to fry up two, one inch thick slices of belly pork. She made it to 96 and only spent the last 18 months in a care home. I'm hoping to have gotten a decent amount of those genes.

Goes to show how strange each of us are.